Fast trains in Britain
 

Hello All!

To settle arguments here, can anyone tell me what are the fastest
scheduled long distance trains in Britain? Are there any other trains as
fast as the Chunnel train? How is timekeeping on the fast trains?

--


James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Fast trains in Britain
 

"James Silverton" wrote in message
...
Hello All!

To settle arguments here, can anyone tell me what are the fastest
scheduled long distance trains in Britain? Are there any other trains as
fast as the Chunnel train? How is timekeeping on the fast trains?

--


James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

The maximum permitted speed is 125mph but much track does not permit that
speed. Two train types were built (or intended) to operate faster but they
have never been permitted to achieve their higher speed.

The Eurostar trains that operate London/Paris and Brussels via the Channel
Tunnel have a maximum permitted 186 mph. Commuter trains using the same
tracks are currently being used in limited service and will operate to a
permitted maximum of 140 mph.

Fast trains in Britain
 

"James Silverton" wrote in message
...

To settle arguments here, can anyone tell me what are the fastest
scheduled long distance trains in Britain?

They don't exist, is the simple answer to your question.
The shortest journey time between, for example, London and Edinburgh (400
miles) by train is 4 hours 19 minutes. That's an average speed of (only)
92.6 mph.
I think even Turkey now has faster trains than we do here in the UK (not to
mention the rest of Western Europe).

Are there any other trains as fast as the Chunnel train?
Nope.

How is timekeeping on the fast trains?
Reasonable.

Gerry

Fast trains in Britain
 

To settle arguments here, can anyone tell me what are the fastest
scheduled long distance trains in Britain?

They don't exist, is the simple answer to your question.
The shortest journey time between, for example, London and Edinburgh (400
miles) by train is 4 hours 19 minutes. That's an average speed of (only)
92.6 mph.

Only? Try travelling in Holland or from Holland to Munich


OK, Amsterdam to Munich is approx. 520 miles
Fastest journey time is 7 hours 26 mins (2 ICE trains via Frankfurt)
Average speed = 70mph
Point taken!

But now look at:-

Beijing to Shanghai = 914 miles in 9 hours 44 mins = 94 mph
Moscow to St. Petersburg = 443 miles in 4 hours 30 mins = 99 mph
Rome to Milan = 366 miles in 3 hours 26 mins = 107 mph
Seoul to Busan = 292 miles in 2 hours 40 mins = 110 mph
Tokyo to Osaka = 345 miles in 2 hours 33 mins = 135 mph
Madrid to Barcelona = 390 miles in 2 hours 43 mins = 144 mph
Paris to Marseille = 485 miles in 3 hours 2 mins = 160 mph

That puts Britain's so-called "high-speed trains" into perspective.

Gerry





Gerry

Fast trains in Britain
 

On Thu, 2 Jul 2009 07:00:08 +0100, Gerald Oliver Swift wrote in post :
:

To settle arguments here, can anyone tell me what are the fastest
scheduled long distance trains in Britain?

They don't exist, is the simple answer to your question.
The shortest journey time between, for example, London and Edinburgh (400
miles) by train is 4 hours 19 minutes. That's an average speed of (only)
92.6 mph.

Only? Try travelling in Holland or from Holland to Munich

OK, Amsterdam to Munich is approx. 520 miles
Fastest journey time is 7 hours 26 mins (2 ICE trains via Frankfurt)
Average speed = 70mph
Point taken!

But now look at:-

Beijing to Shanghai = 914 miles in 9 hours 44 mins = 94 mph
Moscow to St. Petersburg = 443 miles in 4 hours 30 mins = 99 mph
Rome to Milan = 366 miles in 3 hours 26 mins = 107 mph
Seoul to Busan = 292 miles in 2 hours 40 mins = 110 mph
Tokyo to Osaka = 345 miles in 2 hours 33 mins = 135 mph
Madrid to Barcelona = 390 miles in 2 hours 43 mins = 144 mph
Paris to Marseille = 485 miles in 3 hours 2 mins = 160 mph

That puts Britain's so-called "high-speed trains" into perspective.


I don't know about the others, but the Madrid/Barcelona train is non-stop,
whereas you change include a change on the Am/Muc train.
--
Tim C.

Fast trains in Britain
 

"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 2 Jul 2009 11:27:33 +0200, "Tim C." wrote:

On Thu, 2 Jul 2009 07:00:08 +0100, Gerald Oliver Swift wrote in post :
:

To settle arguments here, can anyone tell me what are the fastest
scheduled long distance trains in Britain?

They don't exist, is the simple answer to your question.
The shortest journey time between, for example, London and Edinburgh
(400
miles) by train is 4 hours 19 minutes. That's an average speed of
(only)
92.6 mph.

Only? Try travelling in Holland or from Holland to Munich

OK, Amsterdam to Munich is approx. 520 miles
Fastest journey time is 7 hours 26 mins (2 ICE trains via Frankfurt)
Average speed = 70mph
Point taken!

But now look at:-

Beijing to Shanghai = 914 miles in 9 hours 44 mins = 94 mph
Moscow to St. Petersburg = 443 miles in 4 hours 30 mins = 99 mph
Rome to Milan = 366 miles in 3 hours 26 mins = 107 mph
Seoul to Busan = 292 miles in 2 hours 40 mins = 110 mph
Tokyo to Osaka = 345 miles in 2 hours 33 mins = 135 mph
Madrid to Barcelona = 390 miles in 2 hours 43 mins = 144 mph
Paris to Marseille = 485 miles in 3 hours 2 mins = 160 mph

That puts Britain's so-called "high-speed trains" into perspective.


I don't know about the others, but the Madrid/Barcelona train is non-stop,
whereas you change include a change on the Am/Muc train.

It doesn't seem to be possible without one change.

Same distances all without changes

Amsterdam Central - Cologne HBF 2:38 no changes
London - York 1:58
Amsterdam Brussels 2:44
--


What about London to Brighton in 4 minutes. Average speed 765 mph. Details
at
http://www.whirligig-tv.co.uk/tv/history/interludes.htm
--
JohnT

Fast trains in Britain
 

On Thu, 2 Jul 2009 19:50:30 +0200, Wolfgang Schwanke
wrote:

"JohnT" wrote in
:

What about London to Brighton in 4 minutes. Average speed 765 mph.
Details at
http://www.whirligig-tv.co.uk/tv/history/interludes.htm

That's nothing. The French are doing it for real
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ir_n3J5ABA

I used to occasionally see a Waterloo Station--Gare du Nord film
shot from the driver's position which took a about five minutes.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Fast trains in Britain
 

James Silverton:
To settle arguments here, can anyone tell me what are the fastest
scheduled long distance trains in Britain? Are there any other trains as
fast as the Chunnel train? How is timekeeping on the fast trains?

Graham Harrison:
The maximum permitted speed is 125mph but much track does not permit that
speed. Two train types were built (or intended) to operate faster but they
have never been permitted to achieve their higher speed.

The Eurostar trains that operate London/Paris and Brussels via the Channel
Tunnel have a maximum permitted 186 mph. Commuter trains using the same
tracks are currently being used in limited service and will operate to a
permitted maximum of 140 mph.

All of this is correct, except that "much track does not permit" is
perhaps a bit strong. There are three main lines in Britain today,
all built originally for lower speeds, that have been upgraded to
125 mph speed limits:

* East Coast Main Line, which leads north from London (King's Cross)
to York, Newcastle, and Edinburgh. I'm not sure exactly how far
north the 125 mph speed limit extends; maybe Newcastle.

* West Coast Main Line, which leads north from London (Euston) and
splits into different branches serving Liverpool, Manchester,
Birmingham, and Glasgow. Only tilting trains are allowed 125 mph
on this line, I believe from London as far as the Midlands (i.e.
Birmingham, Manchester, etc.) and some sections on the Glasgow route.

* Great Western Main Line, which leads west from London (Paddington)
to Reading, Bath, Bristol, and Cardiff. I believe the 125 mph
speed limit applies as far as Bristol. Trains capable of 125 mph
are used on the services to Exeter, Plymouth, and Penzance, but
only run at full speed on the short section as far as Reading.

The 186 mph route from London (St. Pancras) south to the Channel Tunnel,
now called High Speed 1, is much newer and was designed for that speed.

Other main lines generally have limits around 80-100 mph.
--
Mark Brader "Inventions reached their limit long ago,
Toronto and I see no hope for further development."
-- Julius Frontinus, 1st century A.D.

My text in this article is in the public domain.

Fast trains in Britain
 

"Mark Brader" wrote in message
...
James Silverton:
To settle arguments here, can anyone tell me what are the fastest
scheduled long distance trains in Britain? Are there any other trains
as
fast as the Chunnel train? How is timekeeping on the fast trains?

Graham Harrison:
The maximum permitted speed is 125mph but much track does not permit that
speed. Two train types were built (or intended) to operate faster but
they
have never been permitted to achieve their higher speed.

The Eurostar trains that operate London/Paris and Brussels via the
Channel
Tunnel have a maximum permitted 186 mph. Commuter trains using the same
tracks are currently being used in limited service and will operate to a
permitted maximum of 140 mph.

All of this is correct, except that "much track does not permit" is
perhaps a bit strong. There are three main lines in Britain today,
all built originally for lower speeds, that have been upgraded to
125 mph speed limits:

* East Coast Main Line, which leads north from London (King's Cross)
to York, Newcastle, and Edinburgh. I'm not sure exactly how far
north the 125 mph speed limit extends; maybe Newcastle.

* West Coast Main Line, which leads north from London (Euston) and
splits into different branches serving Liverpool, Manchester,
Birmingham, and Glasgow. Only tilting trains are allowed 125 mph
on this line, I believe from London as far as the Midlands (i.e.
Birmingham, Manchester, etc.) and some sections on the Glasgow route.

* Great Western Main Line, which leads west from London (Paddington)
to Reading, Bath, Bristol, and Cardiff. I believe the 125 mph
speed limit applies as far as Bristol. Trains capable of 125 mph
are used on the services to Exeter, Plymouth, and Penzance, but
only run at full speed on the short section as far as Reading.

The 186 mph route from London (St. Pancras) south to the Channel Tunnel,
now called High Speed 1, is much newer and was designed for that speed.

Other main lines generally have limits around 80-100 mph.
--
Mark Brader "Inventions reached their limit long ago,
Toronto and I see no hope for further development."
-- Julius Frontinus, 1st century A.D.

My text in this article is in the public domain.

The speed limits keep changing, much as they do on a road. Thus, 125 mph
is permitted from a few miles out of Paddington as far as just before
Reading then again from the other side of Reading to Didcot and then the
station is slower and it goes back to 125. Once you get to Wotton Basset
Junction and bear off left for Chippenham, Bath and Bristol the limit is
generally 100 or less. The same sort of pattern applies to the other two
lines you mention. One of the key characteristics of trains built to run
on "historic" lines is that however much upgrading has occurred they need
high power (horsepower/kwh) to accellerate away from lower speed areas and
station stops. Furthermore the three routes you chose represent a
surprisingly small part of the network as a whole.
hence my "much track does not permit" comment. And, to give a further
example one of the major junctions on the West Coast Main Line is at Rugby.
It has had the upgrade treatment and the speed limit through the station has
been raised from 20 to 80mph so an upgrade doesn't always allow operation at
125mph.

You are correct when you say that only the new "Pendolinos" on the WCML are
allowed to run at 125 (where permitted) - other trains are limited to 110.
A very recent rumour suggest some rumblings to increase the Pendolino limit
to 135 in places (they were built for 140) but don't hold your breath!

Fast trains in Britain
 

"Graham Harrison" wrote in message
...

A very recent rumour suggest some rumblings to increase the Pendolino
limit to 135 in places (they were built for 140) but don't hold your
breath!

It's pretty much essential to hold your breath in a Pendolino, to avoid the
smell of the toilets.

Ian