Travel and vacations - More on Twin Otter Operations

On Monday, July 31, 2000 3:00:00 PM UTC+8, R J Carpenter wrote:
You rec.travel.air folks might be interested in a message from an
ex-Winair Twin Otter pilot that I also forwarded to
rec.travel.caribbean.

The "we" refers to Winair, which is based in St Maarten SXM.

Bob C.
---------------- forwarded text ----------------
Depending upon demand, we operated into Saba three or four times a
day.
There is a medical school located on the island, and if there was a
holiday,
we would add extra flights for the students to meet their flights.
Saba's
strip 12-30 was 1000 feet from threshold to threshold with about 150
feet
overrun on both ends. The plateau the strip is on is 143 above sea
level
with VERY steep cliffs on both ends. We were limited on winds (Cross
Winds
were hard because of the turbulence from surronding terrain - if you
want to
check out Saba, try www.mssaba.com) The strip also has a fair incline
up
runway 30. We usually did the take-off on 12 unless the tailwind was
more
than around 10 knots. Depending on thw winds limited our load as well.
On
a hot day, with no head wind, we would limit our take0off wight to
around
11,900 lbs (about 16 passengers). There was many a day we rotated as we
went off the end of the strip.

Saba is a restricted airport. To fly in there, you had to have
specific
training and we were the only ones offering scheduled service. Air St.
Barths had authority to go in with an BN2 Islander, but I only saw them
there acouple of times. The airport manager watched every landing, and
if
he didn't like the apporach, or thought you were a little sloppy, you
knew
the chief pilot would hear about it before we got back to SXM.

St. Barths was a fun strip to go into as well. We would head for Pain
d'sucre (a small rock that is the reporting point) and head for the
saddle
of the hill. You couldn't actually see the strip till you were a little
closer. I think the threshold was diplaced about 1000' or so. We came
over
the hill and landed rolling to the end of the strip to check out the
beach
(Plage d'St.Jean) before heading to the terminal. Being as the approach
was
near the terrain, we were again concerned with wind. Any strong
crosswind
and we would get incredible turbulence for the hill. In that case, we
would
land from the oppisite direction. Coming in over Anse d'St. Jean, once
you
passed the Golden Rock restaurant, you were commited to land. We HAD to
land, the aircraft wouldn't be able to overshoot and miss the hills.
There
were a couple of accidents caused by photographers standing on the end
of
the runway to get a really good picture (None of our planes - a Caravan
and
a Aztec though when I was there). Our briefing was pretty simple, once
we
pass the restaurant, we are commited to landing, and anybody standing on
the
runway is going to get a nosewheel in the forehead!

St. Barths had alot of traffic, including Caravans, BN2 Islanders,
Dornier
Do228s, Twin Otters, Cherokee 6s, and alot of private aircraft. To fly
in,
you had to have a checkride and get a card from the French Aviation
Authority to land there.

The Dorniers came in from San Juan, Martinique, and St. Maarten. The
Caravans were from Martinique, St. Maarten, and the other french
islands. I
saw the remains of a St. Croix based Beech 99 that tried to land on the
day
before New Years. Don't know what happened, but he ended up in the bush
besides the runway. Ripped both wings off, both engines torn lose, and
destroyed the airplane. Luckily, no injuries.

I thought the Twin Otter was the best for operations in St. Barths
(although I might be a little biased) because of their STOL
capabilites.
The Dorniers were using all the runway, everytime. We could use as much
as
we wanted, and I never had any problems. The Dorniers are faster, but
when
the trip form St. Maarten takes 8 minutes compared to 10, I would rather
have the landing speed and capability of the Twotter.

I can also compare operating extremes. I flew the Twin Otter in the
canadian Arctic before I went to St. Maarten. The Twin Otter is a good
airplane, handling short gravel strips in the north in the cold.

Gord S.
__________________________________________________ _____________________

On Monday, July 31, 2000 3:00:00 PM UTC+8, R J Carpenter wrote:
You rec.travel.air folks might be interested in a message from an
ex-Winair Twin Otter pilot that I also forwarded to
rec.travel.caribbean.

The "we" refers to Winair, which is based in St Maarten SXM.

Bob C.
---------------- forwarded text ----------------
Depending upon demand, we operated into Saba three or four times a
day.
There is a medical school located on the island, and if there was a
holiday,
we would add extra flights for the students to meet their flights.
Saba's
strip 12-30 was 1000 feet from threshold to threshold with about 150
feet
overrun on both ends. The plateau the strip is on is 143 above sea
level
with VERY steep cliffs on both ends. We were limited on winds (Cross
Winds
were hard because of the turbulence from surronding terrain - if you
want to
check out Saba, try www.mssaba.com) The strip also has a fair incline
up
runway 30. We usually did the take-off on 12 unless the tailwind was
more
than around 10 knots. Depending on thw winds limited our load as well.
On
a hot day, with no head wind, we would limit our take0off wight to
around
11,900 lbs (about 16 passengers). There was many a day we rotated as we
went off the end of the strip.

Saba is a restricted airport. To fly in there, you had to have
specific
training and we were the only ones offering scheduled service. Air St.
Barths had authority to go in with an BN2 Islander, but I only saw them
there acouple of times. The airport manager watched every landing, and
if
he didn't like the apporach, or thought you were a little sloppy, you
knew
the chief pilot would hear about it before we got back to SXM.

St. Barths was a fun strip to go into as well. We would head for Pain
d'sucre (a small rock that is the reporting point) and head for the
saddle
of the hill. You couldn't actually see the strip till you were a little
closer. I think the threshold was diplaced about 1000' or so. We came
over
the hill and landed rolling to the end of the strip to check out the
beach
(Plage d'St.Jean) before heading to the terminal. Being as the approach
was
near the terrain, we were again concerned with wind. Any strong
crosswind
and we would get incredible turbulence for the hill. In that case, we
would
land from the oppisite direction. Coming in over Anse d'St. Jean, once
you
passed the Golden Rock restaurant, you were commited to land. We HAD to
land, the aircraft wouldn't be able to overshoot and miss the hills.
There
were a couple of accidents caused by photographers standing on the end
of
the runway to get a really good picture (None of our planes - a Caravan
and
a Aztec though when I was there). Our briefing was pretty simple, once
we
pass the restaurant, we are commited to landing, and anybody standing on
the
runway is going to get a nosewheel in the forehead!

St. Barths had alot of traffic, including Caravans, BN2 Islanders,
Dornier
Do228s, Twin Otters, Cherokee 6s, and alot of private aircraft. To fly
in,
you had to have a checkride and get a card from the French Aviation
Authority to land there.

The Dorniers came in from San Juan, Martinique, and St. Maarten. The
Caravans were from Martinique, St. Maarten, and the other french
islands. I
saw the remains of a St. Croix based Beech 99 that tried to land on the
day
before New Years. Don't know what happened, but he ended up in the bush
besides the runway. Ripped both wings off, both engines torn lose, and
destroyed the airplane. Luckily, no injuries.

I thought the Twin Otter was the best for operations in St. Barths
(although I might be a little biased) because of their STOL
capabilites.
The Dorniers were using all the runway, everytime. We could use as much
as
we wanted, and I never had any problems. The Dorniers are faster, but
when
the trip form St. Maarten takes 8 minutes compared to 10, I would rather
have the landing speed and capability of the Twotter.

I can also compare operating extremes. I flew the Twin Otter in the
canadian Arctic before I went to St. Maarten. The Twin Otter is a good
airplane, handling short gravel strips in the north in the cold.

Gord S.
__________________________________________________ _____________________

On Monday, July 31, 2000 3:00:00 PM UTC+8, R J Carpenter wrote:
You rec.travel.air folks might be interested in a message from an
ex-Winair Twin Otter pilot that I also forwarded to
rec.travel.caribbean.

The "we" refers to Winair, which is based in St Maarten SXM.

Bob C.
---------------- forwarded text ----------------
Depending upon demand, we operated into Saba three or four times a
day.
There is a medical school located on the island, and if there was a
holiday,
we would add extra flights for the students to meet their flights.
Saba's
strip 12-30 was 1000 feet from threshold to threshold with about 150
feet
overrun on both ends. The plateau the strip is on is 143 above sea
level
with VERY steep cliffs on both ends. We were limited on winds (Cross
Winds
were hard because of the turbulence from surronding terrain - if you
want to
check out Saba, try www.mssaba.com) The strip also has a fair incline
up
runway 30. We usually did the take-off on 12 unless the tailwind was
more
than around 10 knots. Depending on thw winds limited our load as well.
On
a hot day, with no head wind, we would limit our take0off wight to
around
11,900 lbs (about 16 passengers). There was many a day we rotated as we
went off the end of the strip.

Saba is a restricted airport. To fly in there, you had to have
specific
training and we were the only ones offering scheduled service. Air St.
Barths had authority to go in with an BN2 Islander, but I only saw them
there acouple of times. The airport manager watched every landing, and
if
he didn't like the apporach, or thought you were a little sloppy, you
knew
the chief pilot would hear about it before we got back to SXM.

St. Barths was a fun strip to go into as well. We would head for Pain
d'sucre (a small rock that is the reporting point) and head for the
saddle
of the hill. You couldn't actually see the strip till you were a little
closer. I think the threshold was diplaced about 1000' or so. We came
over
the hill and landed rolling to the end of the strip to check out the
beach
(Plage d'St.Jean) before heading to the terminal. Being as the approach
was
near the terrain, we were again concerned with wind. Any strong
crosswind
and we would get incredible turbulence for the hill. In that case, we
would
land from the oppisite direction. Coming in over Anse d'St. Jean, once
you
passed the Golden Rock restaurant, you were commited to land. We HAD to
land, the aircraft wouldn't be able to overshoot and miss the hills.
There
were a couple of accidents caused by photographers standing on the end
of
the runway to get a really good picture (None of our planes - a Caravan
and
a Aztec though when I was there). Our briefing was pretty simple, once
we
pass the restaurant, we are commited to landing, and anybody standing on
the
runway is going to get a nosewheel in the forehead!

St. Barths had alot of traffic, including Caravans, BN2 Islanders,
Dornier
Do228s, Twin Otters, Cherokee 6s, and alot of private aircraft. To fly
in,
you had to have a checkride and get a card from the French Aviation
Authority to land there.

The Dorniers came in from San Juan, Martinique, and St. Maarten. The
Caravans were from Martinique, St. Maarten, and the other french
islands. I
saw the remains of a St. Croix based Beech 99 that tried to land on the
day
before New Years. Don't know what happened, but he ended up in the bush
besides the runway. Ripped both wings off, both engines torn lose, and
destroyed the airplane. Luckily, no injuries.

I thought the Twin Otter was the best for operations in St. Barths
(although I might be a little biased) because of their STOL
capabilites.
The Dorniers were using all the runway, everytime. We could use as much
as
we wanted, and I never had any problems. The Dorniers are faster, but
when
the trip form St. Maarten takes 8 minutes compared to 10, I would rather
have the landing speed and capability of the Twotter.

I can also compare operating extremes. I flew the Twin Otter in the
canadian Arctic before I went to St. Maarten. The Twin Otter is a good
airplane, handling short gravel strips in the north in the cold.

Gord S.
__________________________________________________ _____________________

On Monday, July 31, 2000 3:00:00 PM UTC+8, R J Carpenter wrote:
You rec.travel.air folks might be interested in a message from an
ex-Winair Twin Otter pilot that I also forwarded to
rec.travel.caribbean.

The "we" refers to Winair, which is based in St Maarten SXM.

Bob C.
---------------- forwarded text ----------------
Depending upon demand, we operated into Saba three or four times a
day.
There is a medical school located on the island, and if there was a
holiday,
we would add extra flights for the students to meet their flights.
Saba's
strip 12-30 was 1000 feet from threshold to threshold with about 150
feet
overrun on both ends. The plateau the strip is on is 143 above sea
level
with VERY steep cliffs on both ends. We were limited on winds (Cross
Winds
were hard because of the turbulence from surronding terrain - if you
want to
check out Saba, try www.mssaba.com) The strip also has a fair incline
up
runway 30. We usually did the take-off on 12 unless the tailwind was
more
than around 10 knots. Depending on thw winds limited our load as well.
On
a hot day, with no head wind, we would limit our take0off wight to
around
11,900 lbs (about 16 passengers). There was many a day we rotated as we
went off the end of the strip.

Saba is a restricted airport. To fly in there, you had to have
specific
training and we were the only ones offering scheduled service. Air St.
Barths had authority to go in with an BN2 Islander, but I only saw them
there acouple of times. The airport manager watched every landing, and
if
he didn't like the apporach, or thought you were a little sloppy, you
knew
the chief pilot would hear about it before we got back to SXM.

St. Barths was a fun strip to go into as well. We would head for Pain
d'sucre (a small rock that is the reporting point) and head for the
saddle
of the hill. You couldn't actually see the strip till you were a little
closer. I think the threshold was diplaced about 1000' or so. We came
over
the hill and landed rolling to the end of the strip to check out the
beach
(Plage d'St.Jean) before heading to the terminal. Being as the approach
was
near the terrain, we were again concerned with wind. Any strong
crosswind
and we would get incredible turbulence for the hill. In that case, we
would
land from the oppisite direction. Coming in over Anse d'St. Jean, once
you
passed the Golden Rock restaurant, you were commited to land. We HAD to
land, the aircraft wouldn't be able to overshoot and miss the hills.
There
were a couple of accidents caused by photographers standing on the end
of
the runway to get a really good picture (None of our planes - a Caravan
and
a Aztec though when I was there). Our briefing was pretty simple, once
we
pass the restaurant, we are commited to landing, and anybody standing on
the
runway is going to get a nosewheel in the forehead!

St. Barths had alot of traffic, including Caravans, BN2 Islanders,
Dornier
Do228s, Twin Otters, Cherokee 6s, and alot of private aircraft. To fly
in,
you had to have a checkride and get a card from the French Aviation
Authority to land there.

The Dorniers came in from San Juan, Martinique, and St. Maarten. The
Caravans were from Martinique, St. Maarten, and the other french
islands. I
saw the remains of a St. Croix based Beech 99 that tried to land on the
day
before New Years. Don't know what happened, but he ended up in the bush
besides the runway. Ripped both wings off, both engines torn lose, and
destroyed the airplane. Luckily, no injuries.

I thought the Twin Otter was the best for operations in St. Barths
(although I might be a little biased) because of their STOL
capabilites.
The Dorniers were using all the runway, everytime. We could use as much
as
we wanted, and I never had any problems. The Dorniers are faster, but
when
the trip form St. Maarten takes 8 minutes compared to 10, I would rather
have the landing speed and capability of the Twotter.

I can also compare operating extremes. I flew the Twin Otter in the
canadian Arctic before I went to St. Maarten. The Twin Otter is a good
airplane, handling short gravel strips in the north in the cold.

Gord S.
__________________________________________________ _____________________

Hello,

YOu are really amazing pilots! I know it is not easy to get the license to land at St. Barts and SABA. As you said, there're no commercial charts for SABA, buy since you land there, you still have a procedure right? Can you please tell me what it is?