Magda wrote:

[...]

Too optimist for my own good...

Too *optimistic.*
--
dgs

On 22/04/05 7:52, in article ,
"Magda" wrote:

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:22:25 -0700, in rec.travel.europe, dgs

arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :

... Magda wrote:
...
... [...]
...
... Too optimist for my own good...
...
... Too *optimistic.*

I'm an optimist. The attitude is maybe optimistic.

The issue of the Saudi brothers is key. They were on an American terrorist
list because they had taken flight training in the USA (a lot of Saudis
have, legitimately). One issue is if they people are authentically dangerous
why are they free, the Saudi Government can be hard on these people.

The other possibility is that people get on the no-fly list (30,000 are) for
both good and poor reasons, the list is possibly a catch-all. The news
yesterday revealed the following item--

It reminds one of

I found the actual quote as follows:

"Tuez-les tous; Dieu reconnaitra les siens."

Arnaud-Amaury, Abbot of Citeaux, 1209, when asked what to do with the
citizens of Beziers who were a mixture of Catholics and Cathars.

Earl

****

Muslims sue US homeland security over border detentions

www.chinaview.cn 2005-04-21 16:22:29


****BEIJING, April 21 -- Five Muslim-Americans have sued the US Homeland
Security Department alleging racial profiling.

****They say it happened when they were detained and fingerprinted by border
agents after returning from a religious conference in Canada.

****The three men and two w omen say they were held, along with dozens of
other US Muslims, for more than six hours and interrogated, photographed and
fingerprinted against their will in December last year.

****The lawsuit alleges that the plaintiffs were singled out after telling
customs officials they had attended a "Reviving the Islamic Spirit"
conference in Toronto.

****The annual Islamic conference draws thousands of Muslims from Canada,
the United States and overseas.

****The suit charges that the government violated the group's constitutional
rights to practice religion and performed unlawful searches.

****Donna Lieberman is executive director of the New York Civil Liberties
Union, which is helping represent the plaintiffs.

****She says the lawsuit is not about money damages, but about vindicating
individual rights.

****"What the government did here is a clear case of profiling, ethnic and
religious profiling, which is antithetical to core American values and which
is never okay," Donna Lieberman*said.*

****Arsalan Iftikhar is National Legal Director for the Council on
American-Islamic Relations.

****He's condemning what he calls "over-zealous and counter-productive
ethnic and religious profiling".

****He says it's encouraged by government security policies in the wake of
the September 11th attacks.

****"Unfortunately, again, it seems that in the post-9/11 world that we live
in today, American Muslims are guilty until proven innocent," Arsalan
Iftikhar*said.*

****One of the plaintiffs, Sawsaan Tabbaa, an orthodontist from New York,
says the experience at the border crossing was the most humiliating she has
ever gone through.

****Tabbaa refused to be digitally fingerprinted on the grounds that she had
done nothing wrong, but was physically forced into compliance.

****Tabbaa said, "It was unbelievable. I am proud of being American but I
couldn't believe my eyes something like this could happen."

****U.S. Customs and Border Protection defends the actions, saying that its
priority mission is to prevent terrorists and their weapons from entering
this country.

****In the past, the agency has denied the use of profiling at the borders
but says intelligence has shown that conferences similar to the one in
Toronto have been used by terrorist organizations.

Bouarff

"Magda" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:25:14 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, nitram
arranged
some electrons, so they looked like this :

... On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 07:17:47 +0200, Magda
... wrote:
...
... On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 22:36:41 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, "Runge"

... arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
...
... ... ZZZZZZ
...
... Will you please stop wasting electrons to pick on Earl ? He is not
giving a damn, and you
... are only looking silly.
...
... Get your plonking machine repaired and turn into an rte plonker,
... Magda.

I don't killfile such people - I mark their posts read, hoping for the day
when they shall
(may ?) say something worth reading.

Too optimist for my own good...

Bouarff

"Magda" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:25:14 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, nitram
arranged
some electrons, so they looked like this :

... On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 07:17:47 +0200, Magda
... wrote:
...
... On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 22:36:41 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, "Runge"

... arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
...
... ... ZZZZZZ
...
... Will you please stop wasting electrons to pick on Earl ? He is not
giving a damn, and you
... are only looking silly.
...
... Get your plonking machine repaired and turn into an rte plonker,
... Magda.

I don't killfile such people - I mark their posts read, hoping for the day
when they shall
(may ?) say something worth reading.

Too optimist for my own good...

Chiant

"Earl Evleth" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
On 22/04/05 7:52, in article ,
"Magda" wrote:

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:22:25 -0700, in rec.travel.europe, dgs

arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :

... Magda wrote:
...
... [...]
...
... Too optimist for my own good...
...
... Too *optimistic.*

I'm an optimist. The attitude is maybe optimistic.

The issue of the Saudi brothers is key. They were on an American
terrorist
list because they had taken flight training in the USA (a lot of Saudis
have, legitimately). One issue is if they people are authentically
dangerous
why are they free, the Saudi Government can be hard on these people.

The other possibility is that people get on the no-fly list (30,000 are)
for
both good and poor reasons, the list is possibly a catch-all. The news
yesterday revealed the following item--

It reminds one of

I found the actual quote as follows:

"Tuez-les tous; Dieu reconnaitra les siens."

Arnaud-Amaury, Abbot of Citeaux, 1209, when asked what to do with the
citizens of Beziers who were a mixture of Catholics and Cathars.

Earl

****

Muslims sue US homeland security over border detentions

www.chinaview.cn 2005-04-21 16:22:29


BEIJING, April 21 -- Five Muslim-Americans have sued the US Homeland
Security Department alleging racial profiling.

They say it happened when they were detained and fingerprinted by border
agents after returning from a religious conference in Canada.

The three men and two w omen say they were held, along with dozens of
other US Muslims, for more than six hours and interrogated, photographed
and
fingerprinted against their will in December last year.

The lawsuit alleges that the plaintiffs were singled out after telling
customs officials they had attended a "Reviving the Islamic Spirit"
conference in Toronto.

The annual Islamic conference draws thousands of Muslims from Canada,
the United States and overseas.

The suit charges that the government violated the group's constitutional
rights to practice religion and performed unlawful searches.

Donna Lieberman is executive director of the New York Civil Liberties
Union, which is helping represent the plaintiffs.

She says the lawsuit is not about money damages, but about vindicating
individual rights.

"What the government did here is a clear case of profiling, ethnic and
religious profiling, which is antithetical to core American values and
which
is never okay," Donna Lieberman said.

Arsalan Iftikhar is National Legal Director for the Council on
American-Islamic Relations.

He's condemning what he calls "over-zealous and counter-productive
ethnic and religious profiling".

He says it's encouraged by government security policies in the wake of
the September 11th attacks.

"Unfortunately, again, it seems that in the post-9/11 world that we live
in today, American Muslims are guilty until proven innocent," Arsalan
Iftikhar said.

One of the plaintiffs, Sawsaan Tabbaa, an orthodontist from New York,
says the experience at the border crossing was the most humiliating she
has
ever gone through.

Tabbaa refused to be digitally fingerprinted on the grounds that she had
done nothing wrong, but was physically forced into compliance.

Tabbaa said, "It was unbelievable. I am proud of being American but I
couldn't believe my eyes something like this could happen."

U.S. Customs and Border Protection defends the actions, saying that its
priority mission is to prevent terrorists and their weapons from entering
this country.

In the past, the agency has denied the use of profiling at the borders
but says intelligence has shown that conferences similar to the one in
Toronto have been used by terrorist organizations.

Chiant

"Earl Evleth" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
On 22/04/05 7:52, in article ,
"Magda" wrote:

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:22:25 -0700, in rec.travel.europe, dgs

arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :

... Magda wrote:
...
... [...]
...
... Too optimist for my own good...
...
... Too *optimistic.*

I'm an optimist. The attitude is maybe optimistic.

The issue of the Saudi brothers is key. They were on an American
terrorist
list because they had taken flight training in the USA (a lot of Saudis
have, legitimately). One issue is if they people are authentically
dangerous
why are they free, the Saudi Government can be hard on these people.

The other possibility is that people get on the no-fly list (30,000 are)
for
both good and poor reasons, the list is possibly a catch-all. The news
yesterday revealed the following item--

It reminds one of

I found the actual quote as follows:

"Tuez-les tous; Dieu reconnaitra les siens."

Arnaud-Amaury, Abbot of Citeaux, 1209, when asked what to do with the
citizens of Beziers who were a mixture of Catholics and Cathars.

Earl

****

Muslims sue US homeland security over border detentions

www.chinaview.cn 2005-04-21 16:22:29


BEIJING, April 21 -- Five Muslim-Americans have sued the US Homeland
Security Department alleging racial profiling.

They say it happened when they were detained and fingerprinted by border
agents after returning from a religious conference in Canada.

The three men and two w omen say they were held, along with dozens of
other US Muslims, for more than six hours and interrogated, photographed
and
fingerprinted against their will in December last year.

The lawsuit alleges that the plaintiffs were singled out after telling
customs officials they had attended a "Reviving the Islamic Spirit"
conference in Toronto.

The annual Islamic conference draws thousands of Muslims from Canada,
the United States and overseas.

The suit charges that the government violated the group's constitutional
rights to practice religion and performed unlawful searches.

Donna Lieberman is executive director of the New York Civil Liberties
Union, which is helping represent the plaintiffs.

She says the lawsuit is not about money damages, but about vindicating
individual rights.

"What the government did here is a clear case of profiling, ethnic and
religious profiling, which is antithetical to core American values and
which
is never okay," Donna Lieberman said.

Arsalan Iftikhar is National Legal Director for the Council on
American-Islamic Relations.

He's condemning what he calls "over-zealous and counter-productive
ethnic and religious profiling".

He says it's encouraged by government security policies in the wake of
the September 11th attacks.

"Unfortunately, again, it seems that in the post-9/11 world that we live
in today, American Muslims are guilty until proven innocent," Arsalan
Iftikhar said.

One of the plaintiffs, Sawsaan Tabbaa, an orthodontist from New York,
says the experience at the border crossing was the most humiliating she
has
ever gone through.

Tabbaa refused to be digitally fingerprinted on the grounds that she had
done nothing wrong, but was physically forced into compliance.

Tabbaa said, "It was unbelievable. I am proud of being American but I
couldn't believe my eyes something like this could happen."

U.S. Customs and Border Protection defends the actions, saying that its
priority mission is to prevent terrorists and their weapons from entering
this country.

In the past, the agency has denied the use of profiling at the borders
but says intelligence has shown that conferences similar to the one in
Toronto have been used by terrorist organizations.

Earl Evleth wrote:

On 22/04/05 7:52, in article ,
"Magda" wrote:

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:22:25 -0700, in rec.travel.europe, dgs

arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :

... Magda wrote:
...
... [...]
...
... Too optimist for my own good...
...
... Too *optimistic.*

I'm an optimist. The attitude is maybe optimistic.

The issue of the Saudi brothers is key. They were on an American terrorist
list because they had taken flight training

..(insert)..with Muhammed Atta...(end insert)

in the USA (a lot of Saudis
have, legitimately). One issue is if they people are authentically dangerous
why are they free, the Saudi Government can be hard on these people.

The other possibility is that people get on the no-fly list (30,000 are) for
both good and poor reasons, the list is possibly a catch-all. The news
yesterday revealed the following item--

It reminds one of

I found the actual quote as follows:

"Tuez-les tous; Dieu reconnaitra les siens."

Arnaud-Amaury, Abbot of Citeaux, 1209, when asked what to do with the
citizens of Beziers who were a mixture of Catholics and Cathars.

Earl

****

Muslims sue US homeland security over border detentions

www.chinaview.cn 2005-04-21 16:22:29

BEIJING, April 21 -- Five Muslim-Americans have sued the US Homeland
Security Department alleging racial profiling.

They say it happened when they were detained and fingerprinted by border
agents after returning from a religious conference in Canada.

The three men and two w omen say they were held, along with dozens of
other US Muslims, for more than six hours and interrogated, photographed and
fingerprinted against their will in December last year.

The lawsuit alleges that the plaintiffs were singled out after telling
customs officials they had attended a "Reviving the Islamic Spirit"
conference in Toronto.

The annual Islamic conference draws thousands of Muslims from Canada,
the United States and overseas.

The suit charges that the government violated the group's constitutional
rights to practice religion and performed unlawful searches.

Donna Lieberman is executive director of the New York Civil Liberties
Union, which is helping represent the plaintiffs.

She says the lawsuit is not about money damages, but about vindicating
individual rights.

"What the government did here is a clear case of profiling, ethnic and
religious profiling, which is antithetical to core American values and which
is never okay," Donna Lieberman said.

Arsalan Iftikhar is National Legal Director for the Council on
American-Islamic Relations.

He's condemning what he calls "over-zealous and counter-productive
ethnic and religious profiling".

He says it's encouraged by government security policies in the wake of
the September 11th attacks.

"Unfortunately, again, it seems that in the post-9/11 world that we live
in today, American Muslims are guilty until proven innocent," Arsalan
Iftikhar said.

One of the plaintiffs, Sawsaan Tabbaa, an orthodontist from New York,
says the experience at the border crossing was the most humiliating she has
ever gone through.

Tabbaa refused to be digitally fingerprinted on the grounds that she had
done nothing wrong, but was physically forced into compliance.

Tabbaa said, "It was unbelievable. I am proud of being American but I
couldn't believe my eyes something like this could happen."

U.S. Customs and Border Protection defends the actions, saying that its
priority mission is to prevent terrorists and their weapons from entering
this country.

In the past, the agency has denied the use of profiling at the borders
but says intelligence has shown that conferences similar to the one in
Toronto have been used by terrorist organizations.

Earl Evleth wrote:

On 22/04/05 7:52, in article ,
"Magda" wrote:

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:22:25 -0700, in rec.travel.europe, dgs

arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :

... Magda wrote:
...
... [...]
...
... Too optimist for my own good...
...
... Too *optimistic.*

I'm an optimist. The attitude is maybe optimistic.

The issue of the Saudi brothers is key. They were on an American terrorist
list because they had taken flight training

..(insert)..with Muhammed Atta...(end insert)

in the USA (a lot of Saudis
have, legitimately). One issue is if they people are authentically dangerous
why are they free, the Saudi Government can be hard on these people.

The other possibility is that people get on the no-fly list (30,000 are) for
both good and poor reasons, the list is possibly a catch-all. The news
yesterday revealed the following item--

It reminds one of

I found the actual quote as follows:

"Tuez-les tous; Dieu reconnaitra les siens."

Arnaud-Amaury, Abbot of Citeaux, 1209, when asked what to do with the
citizens of Beziers who were a mixture of Catholics and Cathars.

Earl

****

Muslims sue US homeland security over border detentions

www.chinaview.cn 2005-04-21 16:22:29

BEIJING, April 21 -- Five Muslim-Americans have sued the US Homeland
Security Department alleging racial profiling.

They say it happened when they were detained and fingerprinted by border
agents after returning from a religious conference in Canada.

The three men and two w omen say they were held, along with dozens of
other US Muslims, for more than six hours and interrogated, photographed and
fingerprinted against their will in December last year.

The lawsuit alleges that the plaintiffs were singled out after telling
customs officials they had attended a "Reviving the Islamic Spirit"
conference in Toronto.

The annual Islamic conference draws thousands of Muslims from Canada,
the United States and overseas.

The suit charges that the government violated the group's constitutional
rights to practice religion and performed unlawful searches.

Donna Lieberman is executive director of the New York Civil Liberties
Union, which is helping represent the plaintiffs.

She says the lawsuit is not about money damages, but about vindicating
individual rights.

"What the government did here is a clear case of profiling, ethnic and
religious profiling, which is antithetical to core American values and which
is never okay," Donna Lieberman said.

Arsalan Iftikhar is National Legal Director for the Council on
American-Islamic Relations.

He's condemning what he calls "over-zealous and counter-productive
ethnic and religious profiling".

He says it's encouraged by government security policies in the wake of
the September 11th attacks.

"Unfortunately, again, it seems that in the post-9/11 world that we live
in today, American Muslims are guilty until proven innocent," Arsalan
Iftikhar said.

One of the plaintiffs, Sawsaan Tabbaa, an orthodontist from New York,
says the experience at the border crossing was the most humiliating she has
ever gone through.

Tabbaa refused to be digitally fingerprinted on the grounds that she had
done nothing wrong, but was physically forced into compliance.

Tabbaa said, "It was unbelievable. I am proud of being American but I
couldn't believe my eyes something like this could happen."

U.S. Customs and Border Protection defends the actions, saying that its
priority mission is to prevent terrorists and their weapons from entering
this country.

In the past, the agency has denied the use of profiling at the borders
but says intelligence has shown that conferences similar to the one in
Toronto have been used by terrorist organizations.

More info @
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7529185/site/newsweek/

More info @
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7529185/site/newsweek/