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-   -   Sicily travelogue (http://www.travelbanter.com/showthread.php?t=179398)

Alfred Molon[_6_] February 21st, 2013 11:26 PM

Sicily travelogue
 
Here is a detailed travelogue of our recent trip to Sicily:
http://www.molon.de/travelogues/Italy/2012-13/

Two weeks spent looping around the island, covering some of the major
highlights
--

Alfred Molon
http://www.molon.de - Photos of Asia, Africa and Europe

tim..... February 22nd, 2013 12:09 PM

European Resturant Food prices (was Sicily travelogue)
 

"Alfred Molon" wrote in message
...
Here is a detailed travelogue of our recent trip to Sicily:
http://www.molon.de/travelogues/Italy/2012-13/

Two weeks spent looping around the island, covering some of the major
highlights


First off - great report Alfred, but then we get to the bit that I disagree
with

I didn't notice those restaurant food prices as out of line with other
Western European locations from my recent trips.

For those that haven't looks at Alfred's report his sample prices a

Pasta Starter: 7-10 Euro
Main Course: meat 10-20 plus vegetable at 3 E per portion
plus coperto at 2 E plus unspecified amounts for salads and deserts

making a total of 25E pp 100 E per family, twice! a day.

Well firstly, after you have had breakfast in the hotel (which the report
says that he did) does anybody really have a three course meal for both
lunch and dinner. I certainly don't. Lunch will just be the pasta (or a
sandwich).

And are those prices really higher than elsewhere in W Europe for full
meals?

On my most recent trip to France/Spain I was presented with menus in France
at:
Starter 10-15 E
Main Course 15-25E (vegetables included!)
Dessert 8-12E.

And I looked around and found that these was normal and difficult to beat in
a "sit down" restaurant. And yes, I did think that it was more expensive
than I had expected and wondered at the time what had happened to the idea
that eating out in France was cheap! But is it really expensive for what it
is?

In Spain/Portugal prices were cheaper, but you still didn't see much change
from 25E pp for a three course meal.

There were cheap snack bar type places where you could spend less, and a
valid criticism of Sicily might be that these don't exist (I' can't remember
it was too long ago).

But I don't think that, as restaurants, these prices are out of line with
elsewhere.

What experiences do other have?

Tim





David Horne[_2_] February 22nd, 2013 12:30 PM

European Resturant Food prices
 
tim..... wrote:

"Alfred Molon" wrote in message
...
Here is a detailed travelogue of our recent trip to Sicily:
http://www.molon.de/travelogues/Italy/2012-13/

Two weeks spent looping around the island, covering some of the major
highlights


First off - great report Alfred, but then we get to the bit that I disagree
with

I didn't notice those restaurant food prices as out of line with other
Western European locations from my recent trips.

[]
What experiences do other have?


Similar to yours, although 'menu' deals can often present good value if
you want to eat several courses. I've had some exquisite meals on menu
deals in parts of Spain, for example.

David

--
(*) of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
www.davidhorne.net (email address on website)
"[Do you think the world learned anything from the first
world war?] No. They never learn." -Harry Patch (1898-2009)

tim..... February 22nd, 2013 01:24 PM

European Resturant Food prices
 

"David Horne" wrote in message
...
tim..... wrote:

"Alfred Molon" wrote in message
...
Here is a detailed travelogue of our recent trip to Sicily:
http://www.molon.de/travelogues/Italy/2012-13/

Two weeks spent looping around the island, covering some of the major
highlights


First off - great report Alfred, but then we get to the bit that I
disagree
with

I didn't notice those restaurant food prices as out of line with other
Western European locations from my recent trips.

[]
What experiences do other have?


Similar to yours, although 'menu' deals can often present good value if
you want to eat several courses. I've had some exquisite meals on menu
deals in parts of Spain, for example.


In France the tourist "menu de Jour" was only available at lunchtime

In Spain/Portugal it looked like it was meant to be only available at
lunchtime but that the general economic situation has forced restaurants to
offer it all day

tim




David Horne[_2_] February 22nd, 2013 01:29 PM

European Resturant Food prices
 
tim..... wrote:

"David Horne" wrote in message
...
tim..... wrote:

"Alfred Molon" wrote in message
...
Here is a detailed travelogue of our recent trip to Sicily:
http://www.molon.de/travelogues/Italy/2012-13/

Two weeks spent looping around the island, covering some of the major
highlights

First off - great report Alfred, but then we get to the bit that I
disagree
with

I didn't notice those restaurant food prices as out of line with other
Western European locations from my recent trips.

[]
What experiences do other have?


Similar to yours, although 'menu' deals can often present good value if
you want to eat several courses. I've had some exquisite meals on menu
deals in parts of Spain, for example.


In France the tourist "menu de Jour" was only available at lunchtime

In Spain/Portugal it looked like it was meant to be only available at
lunchtime but that the general economic situation has forced restaurants to
offer it all day


Hm. Definitely had menus/formules in French restaurants in the evenings,
maybe rarer but not uncommon, particularly in tourist areas.

David

--
(*) of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
www.davidhorne.net (email address on website)
"[Do you think the world learned anything from the first
world war?] No. They never learn." -Harry Patch (1898-2009)

Frank Hucklenbroich February 22nd, 2013 01:31 PM

European Resturant Food prices (was Sicily travelogue)
 
Am Fri, 22 Feb 2013 11:09:55 -0000 schrieb tim.....:

First off - great report Alfred, but then we get to the bit that I disagree
with

I didn't notice those restaurant food prices as out of line with other
Western European locations from my recent trips.

For those that haven't looks at Alfred's report his sample prices a

Pasta Starter: 7-10 Euro
Main Course: meat 10-20 plus vegetable at 3 E per portion
plus coperto at 2 E plus unspecified amounts for salads and deserts

making a total of 25E pp 100 E per family, twice! a day.


Seems like what you would pay in a city in Germany. Then again, even in a
country like Germany prices can vary regionally. I live in Cologne, and
restaurants here are rather expensive. When I once went to Kiel (northern
coastal town), I was surprisend that food in Restaurants was about 25%
cheaper than in Cologne.

And are those prices really higher than elsewhere in W Europe for full
meals?

On my most recent trip to France/Spain I was presented with menus in France
at:
Starter 10-15 E
Main Course 15-25E (vegetables included!)
Dessert 8-12E.


It really depends. In Paris you will pay about what you quote (or more). In
the countryside you can have great food for much less. I once went with a
house-boat down the River Saone. There the typical "menu du jour" was about
35 EUR, but that included starters (often seafood), main meal (good stuff
such as duck or steak), dessert and cheese. Add the wine to it, which was
quite cheap compared to other countries.

In Spain/Portugal prices were cheaper, but you still didn't see much change
from 25E pp for a three course meal.


Also in Spain it greatly depends on where you go. I was on Lanzarote last
October and found food there very cheap. Main dishes around 8-10 EUR, for
12 EUR you would get s steak you could hardly eat. Fresh fish around the
same, between 10 and 12 EUR, normally including a salad.

What experiences do other have?


On Italy: It's a very mixed bag. In Pisa and Genua I found food
ridicolously cheap, as long as you stay away from the main tourist
attractions. So for Pisa, stay away from the leaning tower and go to one of
the many little restaurants near the University. In Genua, anywhere near
the harbour will do. In both places, we paid about 25 - 30 EUR for a meal
for 3 persons, including 3 Pizza, half a liter of wine and one or two soft
drinks. So about 10 EUR per person, including wine.

On the other hand in Rome I paid about 25 EUR for one tiny slice(!) of
Pizza Margarita and a small beer. Venice should be even worse. A collegue
of mine, who is Italian himself, once went to Venice and make the mistake
of going in one of the "tourist"-restaurants. They charged him 25 EUR for
two cappuchino and a glass of water. Yes, that is rip-off.

Regards,

Frank

Giovanni Drogo February 22nd, 2013 02:02 PM

European Resturant Food prices (was Sicily travelogue)
 
On Fri, 22 Feb 2013, tim..... wrote:

First off - great report Alfred, but then we get to the bit that I
disagree with


I interleave my comments (or better precede them) with comments of other
nature.

- Catania airport. It has the fame to be an underdimensioned airport,
and surely it hasn't been refurbished recently (like Palermo). A bit
crazy considering it has probably more traffic than Palermo.

- Palermo cathedral, Should be an example of the norman style, more
romanesque than gothic (and consider that the Normans in Sicily
arrived after the Arabs had left so it won't be the same "norman"
churches you'd get in UK !

- about comparison of baroque buildings with czech examples. I do not
like baroque in general, but the fact the buildings are all in the
same (raw stone, gold) colour is typical (also of other places,
e.g. Lecce in Puglia). Coloured facades as found in slavic countries
or sometimes Austria are nicer but looks a bit overdone to me (sort
of amusement park effect).

- Erice: it is true it has an odd atmosphere with all the houses in
the same stone colour (and almost no shops), but it is indeed very
characteristic. I did not know the funicular had re-opened (I was
there twice for conferences and we went up by coach or arranged car,
although the road is winding ... I take pills against motion sickness)

- Agrigento and other archeological sites. It might be true that some
are not well kept or unattracive (Selinunte, but I was there passing
by in the '70s), but for others (Siracusa and Agrigento) it might help
a bit of preliminary historical preparation to enjoy the visit (tyrant
Dyonisus, Archimedes, tyrant Falarides, Empedocles). They were Big
Cities of the Magna Graecia !

In same cases it requires a fair deal of imagination (the "faraglioni"
rocks at Aci Something should be the rocks that Cyclops Polyphemus
threw upon Ulysses !)

- Since I do not drive, I cannot comment much on your disadventures with
the navigator. However, despite the fact I do not drive, I orient
myself quite well. In general when I go around (by coach) I know
pretty well where I am looking at road signs and using a map.
Despite bad driving habits of the locals and crazy arrangement of
streets in inhabited centres, possibly you were overestimating the
capabilities of a navigator.

Well firstly, after you have had breakfast in the hotel (which the
report says that he did) does anybody really have a three course meal
for both lunch and dinner. I certainly don't.


That is true even for me. However in general italians do not have the
habit of making substantial breakfasts, and most non-tourist hotels
adapt to that (no breakfast, or just tea/bread/jam or
coffee/croissant).

It looks like you choose an unfortunate time to travel (everybody
knows that everything is closed on Christmas or New Year pretty
everywhere), and were exceptionally unlucky in finding places to eat.

Also it seems you were rather unlucky in non-spotting tourist traps
(which however I'd expect mainly in Taormina), of course an Italian
would smell them from afar.

The other point is that local eating times are quite different from
those in Northern Italy (and surely from those you are accustomed
to). Difficult to find a snack-place at noon for lunch (more likely
around 14), or a restaurant before 20 in the evening (more likely
21).

There were cheap snack bar type places where you could spend less,


It is a long time since I do not go to Sicily, but at a time I used
to go quite often to Palermo for work (and a few year ago I went thru
Catania on a trip to the Aeolian islands).

At the time prices in Sicily were surely lower than here in Northern
Italy (which however is more expensive than Germany, at least from the
times I remember)

However, without resorting to chinese and Mac Donald :-(, one should
find nice places for lunch (in cities like Palermo or Catania) in
places where local clerks go for lunch. There you will pay quite less
than in a restaurant for supper (often the same place has different
prices for lunch and supper). I found bars with "tavola calda" service
offering abundant and excellent local specialities (e.g. "arancini"
i.e. stuffed rice balls, "pasta alla Norma" i.e. with eggplants,
"anellini' i.e. ring-shaped pasta with lot of ragout sauce baked in
the oven), sometimes I marvelled at the amount of staff they had, and
they way they weared (like servants of 1800 nobles "Gattopardo-style"
if you know the movie)

Alternatives are stands with "street food", but perhaps you should
be more "adaptive". I suppose you do not cook with silicon gloves
at home.

Near the sea you should have found plenty of excellent fish dishes
(when we did an organized tour in the 70's swordfish was getting out
of our eyes, since every place we stopped they offered swordfish,
cooked in different ways ... when we got to Catania we said "no more
swordfish, we want roast beef ... and we wait !")

The past with raisins you quote is possible the traditional
Palermo-style "pasta con le sarde" (WITHOUT tomato !) see e.g.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasta_con_le_sarde

tim..... February 22nd, 2013 03:28 PM

European Resturant Food prices (was Sicily travelogue)
 

"Giovanni Drogo" wrote in message
news:alpine.LSU.2.00.1302221315270.32439@cbfrvqba. ynzoengr.vans.vg...
On Fri, 22 Feb 2013, tim..... wrote:



The past with raisins you quote is possible the traditional
Palermo-style "pasta con le sarde" (WITHOUT tomato !) see e.g.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasta_con_le_sarde


I don't think that I have ever seen a less appetising looking dish

tim






Frank Hucklenbroich February 22nd, 2013 03:33 PM

European Resturant Food prices
 
Am Fri, 22 Feb 2013 12:24:55 -0000 schrieb tim.....:

In France the tourist "menu de Jour" was only available at lunchtime


Thats strange. When we went around Bourgogne, it was available in the
evenig at every restaurant we tried. It was in summer, so the high season,
and most tourists (lots of them French) rather have a 4 course menu in the
evening than for lunch.

Regards,

Frank

Giovanni Drogo February 22nd, 2013 04:24 PM

European Resturant Food prices (was Sicily travelogue)
 
On Fri, 22 Feb 2013, tim..... wrote:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasta_con_le_sarde

I don't think that I have ever seen a less appetising looking dish


nevertheless it is nice. And you never tried "pasta con le sarde a mare"
(i.e. pasta ... with sardines at sea, i.e. the same recipe but without
fish !). The characteristic thing is the use of wild fennel. Although I
must say I prefer the way my mother does it (she is lombard, and
probably the sicilians would consider it an heretic recipe), i.e. fried
sardines, and tomato sauce.

I forgot to add I ate very nicely in Erice (for instance pasta with
pesto alla trapanese, which unlike the pesto alla genovese contains also
tomato, nice strong white wines, excellent grilled tuna, almond pastries
and marzipan), but it is a bit of a particular place since it lives more
on the conference people than on tourists, most restaurant have a
convention with the conference centre, and people get 1-2 fixed menus at
no cost but the conference fee)


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