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Sicily travelogue
Here is a detailed travelogue of our recent trip to Sicily:
http://www.molon.de/travelogues/Italy/2012-13/ Two weeks spent looping around the island, covering some of the major highlights -- Alfred Molon http://www.molon.de - Photos of Asia, Africa and Europe |
European Resturant Food prices (was Sicily travelogue)
"Alfred Molon" wrote in message ... Here is a detailed travelogue of our recent trip to Sicily: http://www.molon.de/travelogues/Italy/2012-13/ Two weeks spent looping around the island, covering some of the major highlights First off - great report Alfred, but then we get to the bit that I disagree with I didn't notice those restaurant food prices as out of line with other Western European locations from my recent trips. For those that haven't looks at Alfred's report his sample prices a Pasta Starter: 7-10 Euro Main Course: meat 10-20 plus vegetable at 3 E per portion plus coperto at 2 E plus unspecified amounts for salads and deserts making a total of 25E pp 100 E per family, twice! a day. Well firstly, after you have had breakfast in the hotel (which the report says that he did) does anybody really have a three course meal for both lunch and dinner. I certainly don't. Lunch will just be the pasta (or a sandwich). And are those prices really higher than elsewhere in W Europe for full meals? On my most recent trip to France/Spain I was presented with menus in France at: Starter 10-15 E Main Course 15-25E (vegetables included!) Dessert 8-12E. And I looked around and found that these was normal and difficult to beat in a "sit down" restaurant. And yes, I did think that it was more expensive than I had expected and wondered at the time what had happened to the idea that eating out in France was cheap! But is it really expensive for what it is? In Spain/Portugal prices were cheaper, but you still didn't see much change from 25E pp for a three course meal. There were cheap snack bar type places where you could spend less, and a valid criticism of Sicily might be that these don't exist (I' can't remember it was too long ago). But I don't think that, as restaurants, these prices are out of line with elsewhere. What experiences do other have? Tim |
European Resturant Food prices
tim..... wrote:
"Alfred Molon" wrote in message ... Here is a detailed travelogue of our recent trip to Sicily: http://www.molon.de/travelogues/Italy/2012-13/ Two weeks spent looping around the island, covering some of the major highlights First off - great report Alfred, but then we get to the bit that I disagree with I didn't notice those restaurant food prices as out of line with other Western European locations from my recent trips. [] What experiences do other have? Similar to yours, although 'menu' deals can often present good value if you want to eat several courses. I've had some exquisite meals on menu deals in parts of Spain, for example. David -- (*) of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate www.davidhorne.net (email address on website) "[Do you think the world learned anything from the first world war?] No. They never learn." -Harry Patch (1898-2009) |
European Resturant Food prices
"David Horne" wrote in message ... tim..... wrote: "Alfred Molon" wrote in message ... Here is a detailed travelogue of our recent trip to Sicily: http://www.molon.de/travelogues/Italy/2012-13/ Two weeks spent looping around the island, covering some of the major highlights First off - great report Alfred, but then we get to the bit that I disagree with I didn't notice those restaurant food prices as out of line with other Western European locations from my recent trips. [] What experiences do other have? Similar to yours, although 'menu' deals can often present good value if you want to eat several courses. I've had some exquisite meals on menu deals in parts of Spain, for example. In France the tourist "menu de Jour" was only available at lunchtime In Spain/Portugal it looked like it was meant to be only available at lunchtime but that the general economic situation has forced restaurants to offer it all day tim |
European Resturant Food prices
tim..... wrote:
"David Horne" wrote in message ... tim..... wrote: "Alfred Molon" wrote in message ... Here is a detailed travelogue of our recent trip to Sicily: http://www.molon.de/travelogues/Italy/2012-13/ Two weeks spent looping around the island, covering some of the major highlights First off - great report Alfred, but then we get to the bit that I disagree with I didn't notice those restaurant food prices as out of line with other Western European locations from my recent trips. [] What experiences do other have? Similar to yours, although 'menu' deals can often present good value if you want to eat several courses. I've had some exquisite meals on menu deals in parts of Spain, for example. In France the tourist "menu de Jour" was only available at lunchtime In Spain/Portugal it looked like it was meant to be only available at lunchtime but that the general economic situation has forced restaurants to offer it all day Hm. Definitely had menus/formules in French restaurants in the evenings, maybe rarer but not uncommon, particularly in tourist areas. David -- (*) of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate www.davidhorne.net (email address on website) "[Do you think the world learned anything from the first world war?] No. They never learn." -Harry Patch (1898-2009) |
European Resturant Food prices (was Sicily travelogue)
Am Fri, 22 Feb 2013 11:09:55 -0000 schrieb tim.....:
First off - great report Alfred, but then we get to the bit that I disagree with I didn't notice those restaurant food prices as out of line with other Western European locations from my recent trips. For those that haven't looks at Alfred's report his sample prices a Pasta Starter: 7-10 Euro Main Course: meat 10-20 plus vegetable at 3 E per portion plus coperto at 2 E plus unspecified amounts for salads and deserts making a total of 25E pp 100 E per family, twice! a day. Seems like what you would pay in a city in Germany. Then again, even in a country like Germany prices can vary regionally. I live in Cologne, and restaurants here are rather expensive. When I once went to Kiel (northern coastal town), I was surprisend that food in Restaurants was about 25% cheaper than in Cologne. And are those prices really higher than elsewhere in W Europe for full meals? On my most recent trip to France/Spain I was presented with menus in France at: Starter 10-15 E Main Course 15-25E (vegetables included!) Dessert 8-12E. It really depends. In Paris you will pay about what you quote (or more). In the countryside you can have great food for much less. I once went with a house-boat down the River Saone. There the typical "menu du jour" was about 35 EUR, but that included starters (often seafood), main meal (good stuff such as duck or steak), dessert and cheese. Add the wine to it, which was quite cheap compared to other countries. In Spain/Portugal prices were cheaper, but you still didn't see much change from 25E pp for a three course meal. Also in Spain it greatly depends on where you go. I was on Lanzarote last October and found food there very cheap. Main dishes around 8-10 EUR, for 12 EUR you would get s steak you could hardly eat. Fresh fish around the same, between 10 and 12 EUR, normally including a salad. What experiences do other have? On Italy: It's a very mixed bag. In Pisa and Genua I found food ridicolously cheap, as long as you stay away from the main tourist attractions. So for Pisa, stay away from the leaning tower and go to one of the many little restaurants near the University. In Genua, anywhere near the harbour will do. In both places, we paid about 25 - 30 EUR for a meal for 3 persons, including 3 Pizza, half a liter of wine and one or two soft drinks. So about 10 EUR per person, including wine. On the other hand in Rome I paid about 25 EUR for one tiny slice(!) of Pizza Margarita and a small beer. Venice should be even worse. A collegue of mine, who is Italian himself, once went to Venice and make the mistake of going in one of the "tourist"-restaurants. They charged him 25 EUR for two cappuchino and a glass of water. Yes, that is rip-off. Regards, Frank |
European Resturant Food prices (was Sicily travelogue)
On Fri, 22 Feb 2013, tim..... wrote:
First off - great report Alfred, but then we get to the bit that I disagree with I interleave my comments (or better precede them) with comments of other nature. - Catania airport. It has the fame to be an underdimensioned airport, and surely it hasn't been refurbished recently (like Palermo). A bit crazy considering it has probably more traffic than Palermo. - Palermo cathedral, Should be an example of the norman style, more romanesque than gothic (and consider that the Normans in Sicily arrived after the Arabs had left so it won't be the same "norman" churches you'd get in UK ! - about comparison of baroque buildings with czech examples. I do not like baroque in general, but the fact the buildings are all in the same (raw stone, gold) colour is typical (also of other places, e.g. Lecce in Puglia). Coloured facades as found in slavic countries or sometimes Austria are nicer but looks a bit overdone to me (sort of amusement park effect). - Erice: it is true it has an odd atmosphere with all the houses in the same stone colour (and almost no shops), but it is indeed very characteristic. I did not know the funicular had re-opened (I was there twice for conferences and we went up by coach or arranged car, although the road is winding ... I take pills against motion sickness) - Agrigento and other archeological sites. It might be true that some are not well kept or unattracive (Selinunte, but I was there passing by in the '70s), but for others (Siracusa and Agrigento) it might help a bit of preliminary historical preparation to enjoy the visit (tyrant Dyonisus, Archimedes, tyrant Falarides, Empedocles). They were Big Cities of the Magna Graecia ! In same cases it requires a fair deal of imagination (the "faraglioni" rocks at Aci Something should be the rocks that Cyclops Polyphemus threw upon Ulysses !) - Since I do not drive, I cannot comment much on your disadventures with the navigator. However, despite the fact I do not drive, I orient myself quite well. In general when I go around (by coach) I know pretty well where I am looking at road signs and using a map. Despite bad driving habits of the locals and crazy arrangement of streets in inhabited centres, possibly you were overestimating the capabilities of a navigator. Well firstly, after you have had breakfast in the hotel (which the report says that he did) does anybody really have a three course meal for both lunch and dinner. I certainly don't. That is true even for me. However in general italians do not have the habit of making substantial breakfasts, and most non-tourist hotels adapt to that (no breakfast, or just tea/bread/jam or coffee/croissant). It looks like you choose an unfortunate time to travel (everybody knows that everything is closed on Christmas or New Year pretty everywhere), and were exceptionally unlucky in finding places to eat. Also it seems you were rather unlucky in non-spotting tourist traps (which however I'd expect mainly in Taormina), of course an Italian would smell them from afar. The other point is that local eating times are quite different from those in Northern Italy (and surely from those you are accustomed to). Difficult to find a snack-place at noon for lunch (more likely around 14), or a restaurant before 20 in the evening (more likely 21). There were cheap snack bar type places where you could spend less, It is a long time since I do not go to Sicily, but at a time I used to go quite often to Palermo for work (and a few year ago I went thru Catania on a trip to the Aeolian islands). At the time prices in Sicily were surely lower than here in Northern Italy (which however is more expensive than Germany, at least from the times I remember) However, without resorting to chinese and Mac Donald :-(, one should find nice places for lunch (in cities like Palermo or Catania) in places where local clerks go for lunch. There you will pay quite less than in a restaurant for supper (often the same place has different prices for lunch and supper). I found bars with "tavola calda" service offering abundant and excellent local specialities (e.g. "arancini" i.e. stuffed rice balls, "pasta alla Norma" i.e. with eggplants, "anellini' i.e. ring-shaped pasta with lot of ragout sauce baked in the oven), sometimes I marvelled at the amount of staff they had, and they way they weared (like servants of 1800 nobles "Gattopardo-style" if you know the movie) Alternatives are stands with "street food", but perhaps you should be more "adaptive". I suppose you do not cook with silicon gloves at home. Near the sea you should have found plenty of excellent fish dishes (when we did an organized tour in the 70's swordfish was getting out of our eyes, since every place we stopped they offered swordfish, cooked in different ways ... when we got to Catania we said "no more swordfish, we want roast beef ... and we wait !") The past with raisins you quote is possible the traditional Palermo-style "pasta con le sarde" (WITHOUT tomato !) see e.g. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasta_con_le_sarde |
European Resturant Food prices (was Sicily travelogue)
"Giovanni Drogo" wrote in message news:alpine.LSU.2.00.1302221315270.32439@cbfrvqba. ynzoengr.vans.vg... On Fri, 22 Feb 2013, tim..... wrote: The past with raisins you quote is possible the traditional Palermo-style "pasta con le sarde" (WITHOUT tomato !) see e.g. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasta_con_le_sarde I don't think that I have ever seen a less appetising looking dish tim |
European Resturant Food prices
Am Fri, 22 Feb 2013 12:24:55 -0000 schrieb tim.....:
In France the tourist "menu de Jour" was only available at lunchtime Thats strange. When we went around Bourgogne, it was available in the evenig at every restaurant we tried. It was in summer, so the high season, and most tourists (lots of them French) rather have a 4 course menu in the evening than for lunch. Regards, Frank |
European Resturant Food prices (was Sicily travelogue)
On Fri, 22 Feb 2013, tim..... wrote:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasta_con_le_sarde I don't think that I have ever seen a less appetising looking dish nevertheless it is nice. And you never tried "pasta con le sarde a mare" (i.e. pasta ... with sardines at sea, i.e. the same recipe but without fish !). The characteristic thing is the use of wild fennel. Although I must say I prefer the way my mother does it (she is lombard, and probably the sicilians would consider it an heretic recipe), i.e. fried sardines, and tomato sauce. I forgot to add I ate very nicely in Erice (for instance pasta with pesto alla trapanese, which unlike the pesto alla genovese contains also tomato, nice strong white wines, excellent grilled tuna, almond pastries and marzipan), but it is a bit of a particular place since it lives more on the conference people than on tourists, most restaurant have a convention with the conference centre, and people get 1-2 fixed menus at no cost but the conference fee) |
European Resturant Food prices (was Sicily travelogue)
In article , tim..... says...
I didn't notice those restaurant food prices as out of line with other Western European locations from my recent trips. We have done a number of European trips (Spain, Portugal, France, Switzerland, Hungary, Austria, Czechia, Poland, Greece) and were able to find affordable food in all these countries. For those that haven't looks at Alfred's report his sample prices a Pasta Starter: 7-10 Euro Main Course: meat 10-20 plus vegetable at 3 E per portion plus coperto at 2 E plus unspecified amounts for salads and deserts making a total of 25E pp 100 E per family, twice! a day. Well firstly, after you have had breakfast in the hotel (which the report says that he did) does anybody really have a three course meal for both lunch and dinner. I certainly don't. Lunch will just be the pasta (or a sandwich). Well, wife and kids cannot survive on just a breakfast and a dinner over a whole day. There must also be a lunch. And are those prices really higher than elsewhere in W Europe for full meals? On my most recent trip to France/Spain I was presented with menus in France at: Starter 10-15 E Main Course 15-25E (vegetables included!) Dessert 8-12E. In all other European countries visited it was possible to eat for less. But the really weird thing is that meat dishes in Sicily were so expensive. Why does a meat dish without rice or potatoes have to cost between 10 and 20 Euro? Meat doesn't cost that much. -- Alfred Molon http://www.molon.de - Photos of Asia, Africa and Europe |
European Resturant Food prices (was Sicily travelogue)
In article , Frank
Hucklenbroich says... Seems like what you would pay in a city in Germany. Then again, even in a country like Germany prices can vary regionally. I live in Cologne, and restaurants here are rather expensive. When I once went to Kiel (northern coastal town), I was surprisend that food in Restaurants was about 25% cheaper than in Cologne. To make an example, here in Munich you can go to the PEP (Perlacher Einkaufszentrum) and eat for 4-7 Euro. You will get a dish with rice or noodles with meat and vegetables. -- Alfred Molon http://www.molon.de - Photos of Asia, Africa and Europe |
European Resturant Food prices (was Sicily travelogue)
In article alpine.LSU.2.00.1302221315270.32439
@cbfrvqba.ynzoengr.vans.vg, Giovanni Drogo says... - Agrigento and other archeological sites. It might be true that some are not well kept or unattracive (Selinunte, but I was there passing by in the '70s), but for others (Siracusa and Agrigento) it might help a bit of preliminary historical preparation to enjoy the visit (tyrant Dyonisus, Archimedes, tyrant Falarides, Empedocles). They were Big Cities of the Magna Graecia ! Actually the temple in Selinunte (the well preserved one) is quite nice. Agrigento is also well worth visiting. snip - Since I do not drive, I cannot comment much on your disadventures with the navigator. Probably due to not up-to-date maps. But except for a few spots with inaccurate maps, the navigation system proved to be very useful. However, despite the fact I do not drive, I orient myself quite well. In general when I go around (by coach) I know pretty well where I am looking at road signs and using a map. Despite bad driving habits of the locals and crazy arrangement of streets in inhabited centres, possibly you were overestimating the capabilities of a navigator. The navigator wasn't the problem. The problem was the road network in certain cities and areas and the way Sicilians drive. Also it seems you were rather unlucky in non-spotting tourist traps (which however I'd expect mainly in Taormina), of course an Italian would smell them from afar. These tourist traps seem to be typical of Sicily. In the other countries where we have been even in a tourist restaurant you wouldn't get ripped off. Maybe a little bit, but not as badly as in Sicily. Although to be honest, we just got badly ripped off in that restaurant in Catania on the first day. After that first time, we started checking prices very carefully before entering a restaurant. The other point is that local eating times are quite different from those in Northern Italy (and surely from those you are accustomed to). Difficult to find a snack-place at noon for lunch (more likely around 14), or a restaurant before 20 in the evening (more likely 21). Usually we do not eat so late (i.e. after 8-9pm). We have small kids who need to eat early in order to go sleeping early. -- Alfred Molon http://www.molon.de - Photos of Asia, Africa and Europe |
European Resturant Food prices
Alfred Molon wrote:
In article , Frank Hucklenbroich says... Seems like what you would pay in a city in Germany. Then again, even in a country like Germany prices can vary regionally. I live in Cologne, and restaurants here are rather expensive. When I once went to Kiel (northern coastal town), I was surprisend that food in Restaurants was about 25% cheaper than in Cologne. To make an example, here in Munich you can go to the PEP (Perlacher Einkaufszentrum) and eat for 4-7 Euro. You will get a dish with rice or noodles with meat and vegetables. That's a shopping mall. You will get similar prices in malls in the UK and US, but 'proper' restaurants are generally more expensive, as they are in Germany too. David -- (*) of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate www.davidhorne.net (email address on website) "[Do you think the world learned anything from the first world war?] No. They never learn." -Harry Patch (1898-2009) |
European Resturant Food prices
"Frank Hucklenbroich" wrote in message .. . Am Fri, 22 Feb 2013 12:24:55 -0000 schrieb tim.....: In France the tourist "menu de Jour" was only available at lunchtime Thats strange. I just assumed that it was because they wanted to charge full price in the evening When we went around Bourgogne, it was available in the evenig at every restaurant we tried. It was in summer, so the high season, and most tourists (lots of them French) rather have a 4 course menu in the evening than for lunch. Yep, so why discount it when it is most popular? tim |
European Resturant Food prices (was Sicily travelogue)
"Alfred Molon" wrote in message ... In article , tim..... says... I didn't notice those restaurant food prices as out of line with other Western European locations from my recent trips. We have done a number of European trips (Spain, Portugal, France, Switzerland, Hungary, Austria, Czechia, Poland, Greece) and were able to find affordable food in all these countries. For those that haven't looks at Alfred's report his sample prices a Pasta Starter: 7-10 Euro Main Course: meat 10-20 plus vegetable at 3 E per portion plus coperto at 2 E plus unspecified amounts for salads and deserts making a total of 25E pp 100 E per family, twice! a day. Well firstly, after you have had breakfast in the hotel (which the report says that he did) does anybody really have a three course meal for both lunch and dinner. I certainly don't. Lunch will just be the pasta (or a sandwich). Well, wife and kids cannot survive on just a breakfast and a dinner over a whole day. There must also be a lunch. Well yes. But not three courses, surely? tim |
European Resturant Food prices
tim..... wrote:
"Frank Hucklenbroich" wrote in message .. . Am Fri, 22 Feb 2013 12:24:55 -0000 schrieb tim.....: In France the tourist "menu de Jour" was only available at lunchtime Thats strange. I just assumed that it was because they wanted to charge full price in the evening When we went around Bourgogne, it was available in the evenig at every restaurant we tried. It was in summer, so the high season, and most tourists (lots of them French) rather have a 4 course menu in the evening than for lunch. Yep, so why discount it when it is most popular? Sometimes (not always) it costs more than at lunchtime but, as the various posts indicate, they are nevertheless often available. David -- (*) of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate www.davidhorne.net (email address on website) "[Do you think the world learned anything from the first world war?] No. They never learn." -Harry Patch (1898-2009) |
European Resturant Food prices
Martin wrote:
On Sat, 23 Feb 2013 17:47:31 +0000, (David Horne) wrote: Martin wrote: [] UK probably has the cheapest meals available in restaurants in Europe, thanks to the chains that Mitchel and Butlers, Whitbread and similar own. Most UK supermarkets have a cafe/restaurant offering very cheap meals too, without them some OAPs would starve. For lunch we went to Carcluccio's and had the 'trio' for £20. Same as the last time we were the seafood linguini, gnocchi, venison tortelloni. Delicious and certainly filling for two adults... http://www.carluccios.com/menus/manc...s/pasta-dishes Sounds good! I meant these sort of places serving food at Alfred M. prices I know! :) http://www.mbplc.com/ourbrands/crowncarveries/ http://www.crowncarveries.co.uk/offe...tedbreakfasts/ "Join us early doors at The Drawbridge in Rotherham and set yourself up for the day with an unlimited cooked breakfast fit for a king - only £3.99 from Saturday to Sunday" http://www.crowncarveries.co.uk/thed...sundaycarvery/ "from Monday to Saturday we offer two carvery sizes to suit your appetite: the smaller carvery at just £3.69** (a perfect kids' meal), and the Crown carvery at £4.19. Why not max your meal by adding The Works for just £1.50 extra" I haven't been to those types of places much- certainly good value... when working outside Watford recently, those of us staying in the Hilton went to the Toby Carvery next door for breakfast because it was much cheaper. David -- (*) of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate www.davidhorne.net (email address on website) "[Do you think the world learned anything from the first world war?] No. They never learn." -Harry Patch (1898-2009) |
European Resturant Food prices (was Sicily travelogue)
In article , tim..... says...
Well, wife and kids cannot survive on just a breakfast and a dinner over a whole day. There must also be a lunch. Well yes. But not three courses, surely? You mean we should limit ourselves to just a dish of noodles and drink only water? No salad, soup, no dessert? And even if just you order a dish of meat with some potatoes, together with the "coperto" you are already close to 20 Euro (per person). Add a drink and you are at 20 Euro. -- Alfred Molon http://www.molon.de - Photos of Asia, Africa and Europe |
European Resturant Food prices (was Sicily travelogue)
"Alfred Molon" wrote in message ... In article , tim..... says... Well, wife and kids cannot survive on just a breakfast and a dinner over a whole day. There must also be a lunch. Well yes. But not three courses, surely? You mean we should limit ourselves to just a dish of noodles and drink only water? No salad, soup, no dessert? No I'm not saying that you *should". You can chose to do what you like! I'm saying that surely you do. Do you really eat breakfast and two three course meals *every* day? And even if just you order a dish of meat with some potatoes, together with the "coperto" you are already close to 20 Euro (per person). Add a drink and you are at 20 Euro. There must be some choices for lunch other that this? No snack bars at tourist attractions, cafes on the beach, restaurants inside large shops in town, etc? tim |
European Resturant Food prices
Martin wrote on Feb 23, 2013:
On Sat, 23 Feb 2013 18:36:29 +0000, (David Horne) wrote: Martin wrote: On Sat, 23 Feb 2013 17:47:31 +0000, (David Horne) wrote: Martin wrote: [] UK probably has the cheapest meals available in restaurants in Europe, thanks to the chains that Mitchel and Butlers, Whitbread and similar own. Most UK supermarkets have a cafe/restaurant offering very cheap meals too, without them some OAPs would starve. For lunch we went to Carcluccio's and had the 'trio' for £20. Same as the last time we were the seafood linguini, gnocchi, venison tortelloni. Delicious and certainly filling for two adults... http://www.carluccios.com/menus/manc...s/pasta-dishes Sounds good! I meant these sort of places serving food at Alfred M. prices I know! :) http://www.mbplc.com/ourbrands/crowncarveries/ http://www.crowncarveries.co.uk/offe...tedbreakfasts/ "Join us early doors at The Drawbridge in Rotherham and set yourself up for the day with an unlimited cooked breakfast fit for a king - only £3.99 from Saturday to Sunday" http://www.crowncarveries.co.uk/thed...sundaycarvery/ "from Monday to Saturday we offer two carvery sizes to suit your appetite: the smaller carvery at just £3.69** (a perfect kids' meal), and the Crown carvery at £4.19. Why not max your meal by adding The Works for just £1.50 extra" I haven't been to those types of places much- certainly good value... when working outside Watford recently, those of us staying in the Hilton went to the Toby Carvery next door for breakfast because it was much cheaper. If we have breakfast on the ferry, first we have to get up very early and secondly it costs almost £20 for the two of us. If we hang on until we get to a Crown it costs us around £12 with coffee. If we go in a Morrison's it costs us about £7. All are better than the last breakfast that we had on the ferry. Morrison's seem to feed a lot of OAPs. If you're talking about the P&O North Sea ferries, we've long come to the conclusion that their on-board meals are a total waste of money. They seem to cater for the all-the-garbage-you-can-eat brigade who don't seem to mind paying eye-watering prices. For breakfast we go to the coffee bar and have a coffee and croissant for a fiver or so, which is still expensive but at least reasonably palatable. -- Mike Lane UK North Yorkshire mike_lane at mac dot com |
European Resturant Food prices (was Sicily travelogue)
In article , tim..... says...
Do you really eat breakfast and two three course meals *every* day? I think you are missing the point. It may be the case that you want to eat more than just a dish of noodles and want to drink something other than tap water. Doesn't have to be a three course meal, but you might want to order a soup or other appetiser, sometimes a salad, sometimes a dessert. All no problem if the restaurant is not expensive, but in average Sicilian restaurant once you order more than the absolute basic, things get expensive very quickly. And again, eating sandwiches or fast food every day, for lunch and dinner, is also not an option if you travel with kids. Kids shouldn't be given junk food twice per day. And yes, kids need three meals (breakfast, lunch and dinner) every day. -- Alfred Molon http://www.molon.de - Photos of Asia, Africa and Europe |
European Resturant Food prices
David Horne wrote:
Alfred Molon wrote: In article , Frank Hucklenbroich says... Seems like what you would pay in a city in Germany. Then again, even in a country like Germany prices can vary regionally. I live in Cologne, and restaurants here are rather expensive. When I once went to Kiel (northern coastal town), I was surprisend that food in Restaurants was about 25% cheaper than in Cologne. To make an example, here in Munich you can go to the PEP (Perlacher Einkaufszentrum) and eat for 4-7 Euro. You will get a dish with rice or noodles with meat and vegetables. That's a shopping mall. You will get similar prices in malls in the UK and US, but 'proper' restaurants are generally more expensive, as they are in Germany too. David Kiosk? Grocery store? -- Erilar, biblioholic medievalist with iPad |
European Resturant Food prices (was Sicily travelogue)
martin is just as interesting as donovan...
"Martin" a écrit dans le message de groupe de discussion : ... On Sat, 23 Feb 2013 22:15:45 +0100, Alfred Molon wrote: In article , tim..... says... Well, wife and kids cannot survive on just a breakfast and a dinner over a whole day. There must also be a lunch. Well yes. But not three courses, surely? You mean we should limit ourselves to just a dish of noodles and drink only water? No salad, soup, no dessert? Do you normally have a large breakfast, a three course hot lunch and three course dinner everyday, when you are at home? Just asking, not criticising in any way what you normally eat. And even if just you order a dish of meat with some potatoes, together with the "coperto" you are already close to 20 Euro (per person). Add a drink and you are at 20 Euro. How much does pasta with meat cost? Lasagne for example? Was the fish expensive in Sicily too? -- Martin in Zuid Holland |
European Resturant Food prices
In article ,
Martin wrote: On Sat, 23 Feb 2013 08:58:44 +0000, (David Horne) wrote: Alfred Molon wrote: In article , Frank Hucklenbroich says... Seems like what you would pay in a city in Germany. Then again, even in a country like Germany prices can vary regionally. I live in Cologne, and restaurants here are rather expensive. When I once went to Kiel (northern coastal town), I was surprisend that food in Restaurants was about 25% cheaper than in Cologne. To make an example, here in Munich you can go to the PEP (Perlacher Einkaufszentrum) and eat for 4-7 Euro. You will get a dish with rice or noodles with meat and vegetables. That's a shopping mall. You will get similar prices in malls in the UK and US, but 'proper' restaurants are generally more expensive, as they are in Germany too. UK probably has the cheapest meals available in restaurants in Europe, thanks to the chains that Mitchel and Butlers, Whitbread and similar own. Most UK supermarkets have a cafe/restaurant offering very cheap meals too, without them some OAPs would starve. OAPs? The takeaway industry seems to be huge in London. Not taking food to go but the prepared and packaged sandwiches, salads, Indian dishes, etc. |
European Resturant Food prices (was Sicily travelogue)
Am 24.02.2013 15:19, schrieb Alfred Molon:
And again, eating sandwiches or fast food every day, for lunch and dinner, is also not an option if you travel with kids. Kids shouldn't be given junk food twice per day. And yes, kids need three meals (breakfast, lunch and dinner) every day. When we were travelling with our kids we usually had snacks (sandwiches, fruit, etc.) at lunch and the (only) hot meal in a restaurant in the evening. This was similar to our habits at home (but "switched"), were we have a hot meal at lunch and a cold supper in the evening. Not visiting a restaurant twice a day was not only a matter of not spending too much money, but more on not "wasting" previous time during the day, when we were on tour. -- Torsten Villnow |
European Resturant Food prices (was Sicily travelogue)
On Fri, 22 Feb 2013, Alfred Molon wrote:
The other point is that local eating times are quite different from those in Northern Italy (and surely from those you are accustomed to). Difficult to find a snack-place at noon for lunch (more likely around 14), or a restaurant before 20 in the evening (more likely 21). Usually we do not eat so late (i.e. after 8-9pm). We have small kids who need to eat early in order to go sleeping early. But surely if you would travel to a place in another timezone, you would shift your eating times and adapt to the local ones. Consider e.g. Spain or Portugal (the latter is offset one timezone from MET, the former isn't but de facto it is concerning eating times). I guess noon or 7pm will be too early for lunch or dinner in Sicily, while they won't in northern Italy. EARLIER than that will be too early even here, but probably not in Holland or Norway. Personally when *I* was a kid and we travelled I got quickly adapted to eat at odd times to maximize sightseeing times (e.g. buying some take away food and eating on a train) more than placing my legs under a restaurant's table and wasting one-two hours. Surely more adaptable than my father was ! Said that, I'm surprised to hear of (generalized) high prices in Sicily although I won't be surprised to hear of high prices in northern or central Italy. Specially for places which advertise as "restaurants" and for the evening meal. In big cities there are places like "tavola calda" or "self service" ... follow the office clerks. Usually you can seat and have an (usually abundant) "piatto unico" (single dish) hot lunch. Could be pasta (with some meat or fish sauce) or some combo of meat and vegetables or fish and vegetables. Prices used to be reasonable in Sicily (more than in Milan). At least in Palermo I knew a couple of such places near Quattro Canti di Campagna (the "country" ones not the "city" ones, i.e. near Teatro Massimo). Also bars there often have an extremely good selection of pastries. In Palermo there was a bar advertising "sicilian and swiss pastry" ... you know the saying "Hell is Palermo without pastry shops (D.Maraini The Long Life of Marianna Ucria)". Concerning "cannoli" one has to be careful, according to the locals. The true filling should be made with ricotta (sort of cottage cheese), and therefore one should eat cannoli only in the fresh season, and possibly ask to have them filled at the moment. |
European Resturant Food prices (was Sicily travelogue)
"Giovanni Drogo" wrote in message news:alpine.LSU.2.00.1302251021190.21025@cbfrvqba. ynzoengr.vans.vg... On Fri, 22 Feb 2013, Alfred Molon wrote: The other point is that local eating times are quite different from those in Northern Italy (and surely from those you are accustomed to). Difficult to find a snack-place at noon for lunch (more likely around 14), or a restaurant before 20 in the evening (more likely 21). Usually we do not eat so late (i.e. after 8-9pm). We have small kids who need to eat early in order to go sleeping early. But surely if you would travel to a place in another timezone, you would shift your eating times and adapt to the local ones. Not unless opening hours of "attractions' are similarly shifted. If, like me, you wish to visit a number of attractions before they close at 5pm each day you need to be knocking on the door of the first as soon as it opens. And if you are used to, for example eating a 7pm, going to bed at 11pm, to get up at 7:30am that works for a 9am start time. So you can't change to eating at 9pm going to bed at 1am to get up at 9:30am unless opening hours of attractions are shifted to 11am-7pm, which (mostly), they aren't! tim |
European Resturant Food prices (was Sicily travelogue)
In article , Martin Theodor Ludwig
says... Could the difficulties to find (affordable) restaurants have been an effect of the season during Christmas and New Year, when "things" are not operating normally? That could indeed have played a role. We were there over Xmas and New year and there was a dearth of affordable places. Perhaps in summer, during the tourist season, more places are open. -- Alfred Molon http://www.molon.de - Photos of Asia, Africa and Europe |
European Resturant Food prices (was Sicily travelogue)
In article
engr.vans.vg, Giovanni Drogo wrote: Also bars there often have an extremely good selection of pastries. In Palermo there was a bar advertising "sicilian and swiss pastry" ... you know the saying "Hell is Palermo without pastry shops (D.Maraini The Long Life of Marianna Ucria)". Concerning "cannoli" one has to be careful, according to the locals. The true filling should be made with ricotta (sort of cottage cheese), and therefore one should eat cannoli only in the fresh season, and possibly ask to have them filled at the moment. Couldn't find one that didn't have it in a refridgerated case. |
European Resturant Food prices (was Sicily travelogue)
"Martin" wrote in message ... On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 00:08:04 +0100, Alfred Molon wrote: In article , Martin Theodor Ludwig says... Could the difficulties to find (affordable) restaurants have been an effect of the season during Christmas and New Year, when "things" are not operating normally? That could indeed have played a role. We were there over Xmas and New year and there was a dearth of affordable places. Perhaps in summer, during the tourist season, more places are open. They will probably charge more in summer. IME of restaurants in tourist spots in Italy, they post the "tourist" prices at all times and unofficially give the locals a discount during slack periods tim |
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