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-   -   Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country. (http://www.travelbanter.com/showthread.php?t=147311)

Frank Slootweg December 11th, 2008 01:30 PM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 
[Crossposted to rec.travel.usa-canada and rec.travel.australia+nz

For 'reasons' you don't want to know/hear, this time we ended up in
the US - well, actually California, not the real US, but you get my
drift.

I've been to the US on many business trips and worked in California
for about ten weeks. As the rta+n audience is probably painfully aware
of, we pestered the Aussies with not just one trip down-under, but seven
of them. So I feel - probably totally unjustified - qualified to comment
on the US/California from an Oz-traveller's perspective.

So enjoy/suffer, or hit 'n(ext)' NOW.

I won't comment on the 'immigration' disgrace. After all, it's not
fair to judge a country and its people on their government/
'administration', is it? OTOH, I probably *could* be persuaded to
elaborate.

In no particular order, mainly in order of occurance.

1. American rental car rates are a steal.

We payed only 22 Euro - about 28 US$ - per day for a 'compact' car,
including full insurance. Are you kidding me!? For that kind of
money, why would you want to buy/own/maintain a car?

2. Contrary to urban legend, American cars actually *do* have a boot/trunk.

The lady at Alamo/National tried to convince us that our two small
suitcases would not fit in the boot/trunk/whatever and tried to
prove that with silly graphics. She offered a quite expensive
upgrade to a 'mid-size'. Being quite dead after the long flight from
Munich (*Don't* ask!), we fell for it. At light the next morning, we
saw that the mid-size didn't only fit our suitcases, but also those
of the whole bloody motel. So we went back and got the booked
compact. We could choose it ourselves and opted for a sporty
two-door Chevy Cobalt. A very nice car, for an American one, that
is. Sadly enough my wife didn't appreciate me, temporarily,
exchanging her for a 20-year old, otherwise I would've looked even
'hotter' than I already did.

3. American cars have built-in invisible nice-ladies.

When we picked up the car it was dark and we could not read the
driving instructions to the motel, so I pulled over and (thought I)
switched on the interior light. A nice lady said: "Are you in
trouble? Can I help you?". I explained what I tried to accomplish.
While she could not point me to the right switch, it was a nice but
somewhat scary experience. The whole trip, we were *very* careful,
not to push the 'nice_lady-button' again.

4. American petrol/gas stations charge what they bloody well like.

While American petrol/gas prices are still ridiculously low compared
to Oz/Europe, prices vary by upto a *factor* of two within a short
distance, sometimes even a few miles or even less. I realize that
there's hardly any tax part in the price, so it's mostly 'cost', but
the real cost can't vary that much within such a small area.

5. Americans don't quite grasp what the 'G' in GSM stands for.

They apparently think it means 'the whole world except us', so they
use a different, incompatible frequency.
Luckily our son has more mobile phones than underpants, so he gave
us - no less than three - 'old' multi-band ones. Problem solved, at
least we *thought* so.

6. Americans don't quite grasp that SIMs can be put in *other* phones.

Having a multi-band phone, I went to buy a pre-paid SIM. No such
thing in the US! You can only buy a SIM *and* phone. Duh! I already
*have* a (compatible) phone, *three* of them!

7. Americans don't grasp that mobile phones are actually ... ummm ...
*phones*.

When I wanted/needed to register the pre-paid AT&T GoPhone mobile
phone which I had to buy, AT&T insisted on having me use *another*
phone to perform the registration procedure. Duh! What about using
the bloody mobile phone itself, like is done in every other
country!?

8. Americans don't realize that salt-lakes don't need mobile-phone
coverage, but that towns *do*.

When we found out that our (main) credit-card was blocked (In the
*US*, with a blocked credit-card! The sheer horror!), we also found
that there was no mobile-phone coverage in Lone Pine. Later I saw on
the coverage maps, that by stunning engineering the network people
managed to fully cover the big salt-lake to the south-east of the
town, while completely evading the town itself. No mean feat!

9. Americans can't drive.

They have the "Keep your lane" *theory*, which has its advantages
and disadvantages, but they interpret it in *practice* as "Keep the
left lane", which is the worst of all possible solutions, because
now some of them find themselves behind a slower car in the right
(pun unintented) lane, and have to merge into *faster* traffic,
instead of into slower.

On single-lane (per direction) roads, it's even worse. They don't
know how to (not) overtake. Suddenly they find themselves behind
another car, which is driving *less* than umpteen percent over the
speed limit. Totally confused, they stay there, bumper to bumper,
for several minutes. Then they apparently realize that that is not
a particularly civil thing to do and back off. Next they stay
*there* for many more minutes, waiting for the opportunity where
they can't pass or/and it's not allowed to pass. *Then* they pass.
Well, actually they don't. They do something and move to the left.
When a front to front collision is imminent, their automatic gearbox
apparently decides that the car actually *can* accelerate, and they
miss their opponent by an inch, and are on their way to their next
attempt to kill eachother.

10. Americans don't have coffee.

Of course we were not stupid enough to just ask for "coffee". After
all we've been to Oz and know that "coffee" is not for human
consumption. So we check if they have 'speciality' coffees. Some of
them have the audacity to claim that they have cappuccino, but that
has everything *other* than (espresso) coffee and steamed milk in
it, and is splattered with all kind of silly syrups which make your
eyes pop. All in all, we had only four decent/good coffees, two of
which in San Francisco. Rather pathetic.

N.B. Of course the Americans also do not have beer, but that fact is
so indisputable, I won't have to get into *that* one.

11. Americans don't realize that you don't *have* to 'deep' fry fish.

Why do they insist on deep frying perfectly good fish, even in
places which are directly on the coast, like Morro Bay and
(Fisherman's Warf in) San Francisco? If they don't *like* fish, then
why not just not order/eat it!? No sense in ruining it for others.

Now some - somewhat - nice comments:

12. Americans know how to merge onto freeways.

Because they're wimps, they merge onto freeways quite flawlessly and
their opponents on the freeway let them get away with it! What's
*wrong* with these people!? Don't they know that if you want to
merge onto a freeway, you just switch on your indicator (if you're
an idiot) and move to the left, tough sh*t on the other guy(s)! And
the other guy(s) do everything in their power, like brake/
accelerate, to prevent them get away with it! *That* is how you/we
do these things!

13. The American all-way stop system on road-crossings is nice.

It takes a little get used to and is sometimes not very efficient,
but it's safe and nice.

14. Americans actually stop for pedestrians.

This one also takes getting used to, but also is quite nice and
safe. Sometimes you're not even trying or wanting to cross the
street and you see stopped cars all around, patiently waiting for
you to make up your bloody mind.

15. Americans are mostly nice, friendly people.

We mostly met and talked with nice, friendly people. That's of
course because we're so bloody nice ourselves.

Some noteable examples out of (very) many:

The ranger at the Joshua Tree Visitor Centre, oops, Center was so
nice and enthousiastic that we changed our plan/route according to
his recommendations, and loved every minute of it.

A car salesman with a good sense of humo[u]r: In Pahrump (Nevada) we
walked from the motel to the 'restaurant'. We passed a car-sales
outfit and the salesman said "Oh, people without a car, and they
have to *walk*! How sad!". I said he could sell me a car if he would
deliver it to my home for a thousand bucks, but he didn't fell for
it. Good on him! (Yes, that's actually proper proper English!)

To put things in perspective, they were even so nice to give us a
reference point in a staff-member from hell in a Best Western motel
somewhere. To set the tone, she was 'preceded' by two young,
clueless, incompetent and inaudible others. She managed to treat us
like dirt / non-existing for problems which the *motel* caused.

Well, that's about it I think, at least for the moment. If anyone is
interested in our actual trip - i.e. where we went, why, what we saw,
etc. - then let me know.

If anyone has any doubts, we *loved* our trip and would do something
similar again in a flash, so you Seppos aren't all that bad!

Mike O'Sullivan December 11th, 2008 02:25 PM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 
You don't even mention their "bacon".

AZ Nomad[_3_] December 11th, 2008 05:11 PM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:30:33 +0100, Frank Slootweg wrote:
[Crossposted to rec.travel.usa-canada and rec.travel.australia+nz


7. Americans don't grasp that mobile phones are actually ... ummm ...
*phones*.


When I wanted/needed to register the pre-paid AT&T GoPhone mobile
phone which I had to buy, AT&T insisted on having me use *another*
phone to perform the registration procedure. Duh! What about using
the bloody mobile phone itself, like is done in every other
country!?

usually the procedure involves popping out the battery and reading
back the ESN and also power cycling the phone. It's kind of difficult
to remain on a call if your phone is powered down.


9. Americans can't drive.


They have the "Keep your lane" *theory*, which has its advantages
and disadvantages, but they interpret it in *practice* as "Keep the
left lane", which is the worst of all possible solutions, because
now some of them find themselves behind a slower car in the right
(pun unintented) lane, and have to merge into *faster* traffic,
instead of into slower.


Absolutely no argument there. It varies by area with cities being
the most aggressive, and rural areas being the most clueless.

America is a society of "me first **** you" and instant gratification.
Drivers don't plan ahead; when a lane change is necessary, the person
expects to be able to simply shove their way between the two cars in
the desired lane. They won't signal of course, because the other cars
seeing the impending car about to slide into 1.001 carlengths will close
the gap. I always signal. I always plan my lane changes so I have
plenty of time. If you signal and are willing to wait a whole 10
seconds, traffic will almost always open a gap to let you in.

America also has a love affair with the car with it being a status
symbol. The usual rule of thumb is "the smaller the dick, the bigger
the truck." I couldn't help laughing at the idiots with their gas
guzzlers when gas tripled in price last summer.

I've found some amusing tactics. For example, on my way to work, there
were two exit lanes on the right of a blvd for a highway. The left lane
could be used for east or westbound on the highway. The right lane
was westbound only. I needed to go west bound on my trip to work, but
everybody east and westbound was piled up in the right lane backing up
at least 3 traffic light cycles. I'd be the first in the middle lane
at a red light and need to merge to the right. Of course MFFY driver
in the right couldn't permit me to get ahead of him. My tactic was
simple. Floor it. Let the driver on the right do the same to cut
me off. The slow down and get in the nice gap he opened up behind
himself.

The main trick is to let the uber agressive drivers get ahead of you.
It's easier to see when they wreck and get out of their way if one is
behind them. It is amazing that they never save time. Half the time
I'll pass them later while they're stuck behind a truck or buss because
they are incapable of looking down the road to plan ahead.

As far as lane discpline and passing on the left, it varies by region.
The midwest is the worst, the north east is the best. Driving around
boston, I actually experienced drivers staying on the right, using
the left to pass and then returning to the right. Imagine that!
The standard california lane change is to put the signal on (optional)
close one's eyes, and then slowly drift into the lane of choice. The
other cars are expected to get out of the way.

pltrgyst[_2_] December 11th, 2008 05:20 PM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:30:33 +0100, Frank Slootweg wrote:

1. American rental car rates are a steal.

We payed only 22 Euro - about 28 US$ - per day for a 'compact' car,
including full insurance. Are you kidding me!? For that kind of
money, why would you want to buy/own/maintain a car?


Because $28*365 = $10,000+ ?

3. American cars have built-in invisible nice-ladies....


Some American cities, like Las Vegas, are chock full of "nice-ladies" willing to
hop into your car.

4. American petrol/gas stations charge what they bloody well like.

While American petrol/gas prices are still ridiculously low compared
to Oz/Europe, prices vary by upto a *factor* of two within a short
distance, sometimes even a few miles or even less....


It doesn't, anywhere. You must have misread the signs (or been looking at rental
car company top-off rates).

5. Americans don't quite grasp what the 'G' in GSM stands for.

They apparently think it means 'the whole world except us', so they
use a different, incompatible frequency....


And non-Americans don't generally realize that the US has two competing cell
phone technologies. And that the non-GSM technology actually has significant
advantages under some conditions, and offers generally better coverage in the
US. It's not just the frequency that is different.

6. Americans don't quite grasp that SIMs can be put in *other* phones.


That's because our GSM carriers are allowed to sell their phones "locked" to
their system only. Sad.

8. Americans don't realize that salt-lakes don't need mobile-phone
coverage, but that towns *do*.

.... by stunning engineering the network people
managed to fully cover the big salt-lake to the south-east of the
town, while completely evading the town itself. No mean feat!


This is probably not the fault of the network people. In the US, some towns have
actually decided that they do not want cell phone coverage, and refuse to allow
the installation of cell phone towers/antennae.

9. Americans can't drive.


Agreed, in general. However, some of use thrive quite nicely on your
autobahns/motorways.

10. Americans don't have coffee.


We do; we just don't believe that real coffee is for just anyone. Hence we
created these "Charbucks" places to service desperate foreigners. It's a
"balance-of-payments" thing.

N.B. Of course the Americans also do not have beer, but that fact is
so indisputable, I won't have to get into *that* one.


Good, because you're wrong. The US these days has a greater variety of
outstanding beer -- including ales -- than any other nation on earth. OTOH, on
my visits to A+NZ, I have never once encountered a beer with any character. I
suspect that Fosters and the like are fronts for repackaged Budweiser.

11. Americans don't realize that you don't *have* to 'deep' fry fish.


Americans do, however, realize that if you don't want fried fish, you shouldn't
seek out resturants that sell only fried fish.

13. The American all-way stop system on road-crossings is nice.


Not really. Most Americans are too dumb and poorly trained to execute the "yield
to the right" theory behind all-way stops.

If anyone has any doubts, we *loved* our trip and would do something
similar again in a flash, so you Seppos aren't all that bad!


Glad you enjoyed yourselves. Come again. 8;)

-- Larry

Eric Griswold December 11th, 2008 05:50 PM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 
Frank Slootweg writes:

mostly true stuff

10. Americans don't have coffee.


We do, but we don't tell the tourists where it is. Same is true for
ales; lagers not so much.

Eric


Frank Slootweg December 11th, 2008 09:41 PM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 
AZ Nomad wrote:
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:30:33 +0100, Frank Slootweg wrote:
[Crossposted to rec.travel.usa-canada and rec.travel.australia+nz


7. Americans don't grasp that mobile phones are actually ... ummm ...
*phones*.


When I wanted/needed to register the pre-paid AT&T GoPhone mobile
phone which I had to buy, AT&T insisted on having me use *another*
phone to perform the registration procedure. Duh! What about using
the bloody mobile phone itself, like is done in every other
country!?


usually the procedure involves popping out the battery and reading
back the ESN and also power cycling the phone. It's kind of difficult
to remain on a call if your phone is powered down.


You need the ICCID of the SIM ('SmartChip TM') and the IMEI number.
Both are on labels on the outside of the package in which the phone,
etc. comes. So no need to power down.

The "Start here to activate your GoPhone(R) Service" leaflet
painstakingly explains all of that, also in Spanish :-), but even if you
don't RTFM (*Moi*?), the nice computerized lady explains what to get
where and even waits till you're done! I *love* nice computerized
ladies!

But more to the point, in other, albeit civilized :-), countries,
mobile-phone SPs don't need all that mumbo-jumbo, the phones come
working right out-of-the-box, including the phone number. You just can't
call anybody *else*, before you've registered [1] the phone by using the
very same phone. Makes kind of sense doesn't it!?

[Other comments - thanks - deleted.]

[1] I don't think I *had* to register my Dutch SIM. They just *wanted*
you to register and gave you a bonus (free credit) if/when you did.
I *did* have to register my Australian Vodafone and Telstra SIMs, and I
had to (sort of) register myself when buying them. ("What's your address
in Australia?". Duh! I'm a bloody furrin tourist, ain't I?

Bert Hyman December 11th, 2008 10:06 PM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 
In b.home.nl Frank
Slootweg wrote:

I don't think I *had* to register my Dutch SIM. They just *wanted*
you to register and gave you a bonus (free credit) if/when you did.
I *did* have to register my Australian Vodafone and Telstra SIMs, and
I had to (sort of) register myself when buying them. ("What's your
address in Australia?". Duh! I'm a bloody furrin tourist, ain't I?


I travelled to Norway last year and for the first time decided to take a
phone with me, so I borrowed an unlocked GSM phone from a friend.

Thinking I was being clever, I bought a pre-paid Netcom Norway SIM card
from an outfit I found on the Web, so I'd have a working phone as soon
as I got to Bergen.

When I turned on the phone, I almost immediately received a text message
from Netcom telling me to reply with my name and birthday to register
the phone. Of course, since I wasn't a Norwegian citizen, they couldn't
find me in their database (the phone company has immediate access to
such data?) and the registration failed. I was able to talk to Netcom
customer service though, and was told I'd have to go to a retail outlet
with my passport and register before they'd turn the phone on.

The clerk there told me this was a relatively new (at the time)
requirement, apparently based on anti-terrorism laws.

--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN

Bert Hyman December 11th, 2008 10:10 PM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 
In .home.nl Frank
Slootweg wrote:

5. Americans don't quite grasp what the 'G' in GSM stands for.

They apparently think it means 'the whole world except us', so they
use a different, incompatible frequency.


Most likely due to regulatory issues or already-occupied spectrum.

Nothing personal.

Quad-band phones are easy to come by, but 3G adds a new incompatibility.

--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN

Bert Hyman December 11th, 2008 10:12 PM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 
In .home.nl Frank
Slootweg wrote:

6. Americans don't quite grasp that SIMs can be put in *other*
phones.

Having a multi-band phone, I went to buy a pre-paid SIM. No such
thing in the US! You can only buy a SIM *and* phone. Duh! I
already *have* a (compatible) phone, *three* of them!


Both T-Mobile and AT&T sell naked SIM cards for their pre-paid services
in their retail stores. Those stand-alone kiosks you find in shopping
malls are often operated by independent contractors who might not know
what you're talking about though.

--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN

Frank Slootweg December 11th, 2008 10:31 PM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 
pltrgyst wrote:
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:30:33 +0100, Frank Slootweg wrote:

1. American rental car rates are a steal.

We payed only 22 Euro - about 28 US$ - per day for a 'compact' car,
including full insurance. Are you kidding me!? For that kind of
money, why would you want to buy/own/maintain a car?


Because $28*365 = $10,000+ ?


Believe it or not, but for (most of) Europe that's a *good* deal, for
*such* a car, which is mostly *new* (*both* of ours had less than 4,000
miles on them).

As a reference: I drive a Renault Clio, which is much, much smaller.
It is 4 years old. I have *maximum* (70+%) discount on my insurance
premium (because of no claims in a long time). *That* small 'old' car,
under those rosy conditions, already costs me some US$ 270 per month,
3240 per year (of course without petrol/gas, i.e. apples-to-apples).

[...]

4. American petrol/gas stations charge what they bloody well like.

While American petrol/gas prices are still ridiculously low compared
to Oz/Europe, prices vary by upto a *factor* of two within a short
distance, sometimes even a few miles or even less....


It doesn't, anywhere. You must have misread the signs (or been looking
at rental car company top-off rates).


No, we didn't misread. Trust me, we are *very* careful reading fuel
prices, especially considering we drove/drive 'around the world' in Oz a
couple of times in very thirsty campervans.

The extremes were on highway 395, probably somewhere between where
89 joins from the west and Bridgeport in the south. Next time I'll make
pictures! :-)

5. Americans don't quite grasp what the 'G' in GSM stands for.

They apparently think it means 'the whole world except us', so they
use a different, incompatible frequency....


And non-Americans don't generally realize that the US has two competing cell
phone technologies. And that the non-GSM technology actually has significant
advantages under some conditions, and offers generally better coverage in the
US. It's not just the frequency that is different.


The US isn't at all special in that respect. Europe and Oz each also
had and have competing cell phone technologies.

6. Americans don't quite grasp that SIMs can be put in *other* phones.


That's because our GSM carriers are allowed to sell their phones "locked" to
their system only. Sad.


Again, no news there. Same story in Europe/Oz.

But, as you say, the *phones* are locked, not the *SIMs*. So if you
have an unlocked phone (which I had), you can put the American SIM in
there and it will work just fine, and that's what I did and it did. I.e.
there is no need for another phone if the customer has an unlocked
phone.

8. Americans don't realize that salt-lakes don't need mobile-phone
coverage, but that towns *do*.

.... by stunning engineering the network people
managed to fully cover the big salt-lake to the south-east of the
town, while completely evading the town itself. No mean feat!


This is probably not the fault of the network people. In the US, some
towns have actually decided that they do not want cell phone coverage,
and refuse to allow the installation of cell phone towers/antennae.


I 'hear' you, but I don't think that's the case here. If I can be
bothered, I'll try to re-find the actaul coverage map. It's *so* weird
that *missing* antennas don't explain it.

[...]

10. Americans don't have coffee.


We do; we just don't believe that real coffee is for just anyone. Hence we
created these "Charbucks" places to service desperate foreigners. It's a
"balance-of-payments" thing.


I think you confuse foreigners with people-without-taste. While there
surely *is* an overlap, and probably a big one, they aren't the same
set.

N.B. Of course the Americans also do not have beer, but that fact is
so indisputable, I won't have to get into *that* one.


Good, because you're wrong. The US these days has a greater variety of
outstanding beer -- including ales -- than any other nation on earth. OTOH, on
my visits to A+NZ, I have never once encountered a beer with any character. I
suspect that Fosters and the like are fronts for repackaged Budweiser.


Same here. You can't mention Fosters or Budweiser when talking about
beer, because they're not. (And no, Heineken isn't either.)

Case in point: On the Lufthansa flight back, I asked the flight
attendant for an American beer. She smiled with pity and gave me a
Warsteiner.

BTW, if you haven't "encountered a beer with any character" in Oz,
then you didn't look very well, IMNSHO.

11. Americans don't realize that you don't *have* to 'deep' fry fish.


Americans do, however, realize that if you don't want fried fish, you
shouldn't seek out resturants that sell only fried fish.


My point (which you snipped) was/is that there *are* no other
restaurants (in those areas). So apparently many/most Americans *do* want/
tolerate such 'food'.

[...]

If anyone has any doubts, we *loved* our trip and would do something
similar again in a flash, so you Seppos aren't all that bad!


Glad you enjoyed yourselves. Come again. 8;)


Thanks. We will!

Frank Slootweg December 11th, 2008 10:41 PM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 
Bert Hyman wrote:
In .home.nl Frank
Slootweg wrote:

5. Americans don't quite grasp what the 'G' in GSM stands for.

They apparently think it means 'the whole world except us', so they
use a different, incompatible frequency.


Most likely due to regulatory issues or already-occupied spectrum.


The latter. But we can't have facts spoil a nice bashing, now can we!?

Nothing personal.

Quad-band phones are easy to come by, but 3G adds a new incompatibility.


And, IIUIC, Telstra adds some new incompatibility by using a different
frequency on *their* 3G (NextG) network. Sigh! (Yes, I know that "3G" is
an ambiguous term in this context.)

Frank Slootweg December 11th, 2008 10:58 PM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 
Bert Hyman wrote:
In .home.nl Frank
Slootweg wrote:

6. Americans don't quite grasp that SIMs can be put in *other*
phones.

Having a multi-band phone, I went to buy a pre-paid SIM. No such
thing in the US! You can only buy a SIM *and* phone. Duh! I
already *have* a (compatible) phone, *three* of them!


Both T-Mobile and AT&T sell naked SIM cards for their pre-paid services
in their retail stores. Those stand-alone kiosks you find in shopping
malls are often operated by independent contractors who might not know
what you're talking about though.


Hmmm! Before going to the US, I looked at AT&T's and T-Mobile USA's
websites. I didn't find anything like that on the AT&T site (Don't get
me started on AT&T sites.), and the T-Mobile USA site specifically said
that you could get SIM-only only via their website (and because that
required a US ship-to address, that was no option (not counting the
poorer (than AT&T) coverage)).

So now I'm the proud owner of a beautiful, but totally useless
(outside the US), AT&T GoPhone Nokia 2610 phone [1]. It cost me all of
US$ 19.99 (without tax, mind you (Don't get me started on the
without-tax thingie.)), so I'm not complaining. *And* it includes a charger
which is 110-240VAC (not 240VAC-only), so I can use it everywhere for
all my Nokia phones (albeit with plug-adapters, which are needed
anyway)!

[1] I *think* it's *dual*-band, not triple-band, with *both* bands being
the 'wrong' bands, if that's at all possible. Nokia has the bad habit of
not mentioning any specs (like these) in their supplied documentation,
so (AFAIK) there is no way of knowing which bands the phone actually
has.

Mark Brader December 11th, 2008 10:59 PM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 
Frank Slootweg writes:

4. American petrol/gas stations charge what they bloody well like.

While American petrol/gas prices are still ridiculously low compared
to Oz/Europe, prices vary by upto a *factor* of two within a short
distance ...


No, we didn't misread. Trust me, we are *very* careful reading fuel
prices, especially considering we drove/drive 'around the world' in Oz a
couple of times in very thirsty campervans.


What were the two prices? Did you actually fill up at the lower price?
Did the cheaper station have long lines of cars waiting?

I have an alternative theory.

When gas prices in the US rose to unprecedented levels not so long
ago, some older gas stations were *unable* to display the new prices
because there was a limit to the price their pumps could be set to.

This is not the first time this has happened, and one solution I've
heard of them using on earlier occasions was to display 1/2 of the
true price and charge you twice the indicated amount. Very likely
this is illegal, but it might not be considered a big deal so long
as there was a prominent notice explaining what was going on so that
nobody was deceived.

Okay, now imagine a gas station where they've decided to use this
approach and then the notice accidentally falls down, and they get
careless about replacing it -- after all, nobody could believe that
gas was really that cheap, *could they*?

(Similarly in Toronto, a few months ago when a typical price might have
been $1.279 per liter, I saw one station with a sign displaying an amount
like 27.9 -- you were supposed to figure out that it was $1 above that.)
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "If you feel [that Doug Gwyn] has a bad attitude,
| then use lint (or Chris Torek...)" --Joe English

My text in this article is in the public domain.

Frank Slootweg December 11th, 2008 11:17 PM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 
Mark Brader wrote:
Frank Slootweg writes:

4. American petrol/gas stations charge what they bloody well like.

While American petrol/gas prices are still ridiculously low compared
to Oz/Europe, prices vary by upto a *factor* of two within a short
distance ...


No, we didn't misread. Trust me, we are *very* careful reading fuel
prices, especially considering we drove/drive 'around the world' in Oz a
couple of times in very thirsty campervans.


What were the two prices? Did you actually fill up at the lower price?
Did the cheaper station have long lines of cars waiting?


For the *extremes*, the factor of two, the distance between stations
was tens of miles, perhaps 'even' a hundred. We came from the low price
one, did not need to fill up yet and just drove on till we saw a more
reasonable price.

But to answer your second question: No, in a less extreme cases the
cheaper stations didn't have long lines, and what surprised us even more
was that in some cases the difference was as high as 20% (40 cents on 2
dollars) and people were just happily filling up at the high-price
station, while they could *see* that there were no queues at the cheap
station *accross the road*! Yes, we Dutch are 'known'/supposed to be
cheap skates, but 20%?, accross the road?, give me a break!

[...]

Bert Hyman December 12th, 2008 01:27 AM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 
In b.home.nl Frank
Slootweg wrote:

So now I'm the proud owner of a beautiful, but totally useless
(outside the US), AT&T GoPhone Nokia 2610 phone [1]. It cost me all of
US$ 19.99 (without tax, mind you (Don't get me started on the
without-tax thingie.)), so I'm not complaining. *And* it includes a
charger which is 110-240VAC (not 240VAC-only), so I can use it
everywhere for all my Nokia phones (albeit with plug-adapters, which
are needed anyway)!


That's an interesting aspect of the way phones are sold here (by
T-Mobile, anyway). You can often walk into a chain discount store (like
Target or WalMart) and buy a phone for $20 which includes a $25 airtime
card.

--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN

John Kulp December 12th, 2008 02:50 AM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 
Well written and funny, but not entirely accurate. See below.


On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:30:33 +0100, Frank Slootweg
wrote:

[Crossposted to rec.travel.usa-canada and rec.travel.australia+nz

For 'reasons' you don't want to know/hear, this time we ended up in
the US - well, actually California, not the real US, but you get my
drift.

I've been to the US on many business trips and worked in California
for about ten weeks. As the rta+n audience is probably painfully aware
of, we pestered the Aussies with not just one trip down-under, but seven
of them. So I feel - probably totally unjustified - qualified to comment
on the US/California from an Oz-traveller's perspective.

So enjoy/suffer, or hit 'n(ext)' NOW.

I won't comment on the 'immigration' disgrace. After all, it's not
fair to judge a country and its people on their government/
'administration', is it? OTOH, I probably *could* be persuaded to
elaborate.

In no particular order, mainly in order of occurance.

1. American rental car rates are a steal.

We payed only 22 Euro - about 28 US$ - per day for a 'compact' car,
including full insurance. Are you kidding me!? For that kind of
money, why would you want to buy/own/maintain a car?


Rates change by season, events going on etc. You should have tried
renting one here in Denver during Obama's convention and see how cheap
they were, though overall you're right. Which says more about
European rental ripoffs than it does us.


2. Contrary to urban legend, American cars actually *do* have a boot/trunk.

The lady at Alamo/National tried to convince us that our two small
suitcases would not fit in the boot/trunk/whatever and tried to
prove that with silly graphics. She offered a quite expensive
upgrade to a 'mid-size'. Being quite dead after the long flight from
Munich (*Don't* ask!), we fell for it. At light the next morning, we
saw that the mid-size didn't only fit our suitcases, but also those
of the whole bloody motel. So we went back and got the booked
compact. We could choose it ourselves and opted for a sporty
two-door Chevy Cobalt. A very nice car, for an American one, that
is. Sadly enough my wife didn't appreciate me, temporarily,
exchanging her for a 20-year old, otherwise I would've looked even
'hotter' than I already did.


Found out what rental car agents on commission do, did you?


3. American cars have built-in invisible nice-ladies.

When we picked up the car it was dark and we could not read the
driving instructions to the motel, so I pulled over and (thought I)
switched on the interior light. A nice lady said: "Are you in
trouble? Can I help you?". I explained what I tried to accomplish.
While she could not point me to the right switch, it was a nice but
somewhat scary experience. The whole trip, we were *very* careful,
not to push the 'nice_lady-button' again.


Boo!!


4. American petrol/gas stations charge what they bloody well like.

While American petrol/gas prices are still ridiculously low compared
to Oz/Europe, prices vary by upto a *factor* of two within a short
distance, sometimes even a few miles or even less. I realize that
there's hardly any tax part in the price, so it's mostly 'cost', but
the real cost can't vary that much within such a small area.


That's what happens when you have free markets that are not
monopolized. You get a choice.


5. Americans don't quite grasp what the 'G' in GSM stands for.

They apparently think it means 'the whole world except us', so they
use a different, incompatible frequency.
Luckily our son has more mobile phones than underpants, so he gave
us - no less than three - 'old' multi-band ones. Problem solved, at
least we *thought* so.


Funny, I have one I bought here that works anywhere in the world.


6. Americans don't quite grasp that SIMs can be put in *other* phones.

Having a multi-band phone, I went to buy a pre-paid SIM. No such
thing in the US! You can only buy a SIM *and* phone. Duh! I already
*have* a (compatible) phone, *three* of them!


Completely wrong. Just do a search for "pre-paid SIM in the US" and
see what you find.


7. Americans don't grasp that mobile phones are actually ... ummm ...
*phones*.

When I wanted/needed to register the pre-paid AT&T GoPhone mobile
phone which I had to buy, AT&T insisted on having me use *another*
phone to perform the registration procedure. Duh! What about using
the bloody mobile phone itself, like is done in every other
country!?


You just found out why nobody uses ATT here. There are lots of other
you know.


8. Americans don't realize that salt-lakes don't need mobile-phone
coverage, but that towns *do*.

When we found out that our (main) credit-card was blocked (In the
*US*, with a blocked credit-card! The sheer horror!), we also found
that there was no mobile-phone coverage in Lone Pine. Later I saw on
the coverage maps, that by stunning engineering the network people
managed to fully cover the big salt-lake to the south-east of the
town, while completely evading the town itself. No mean feat!


You were in Utah. They're too busy taking care of their multiple
wives there to bother with frivolity like that.


9. Americans can't drive.

They have the "Keep your lane" *theory*, which has its advantages
and disadvantages, but they interpret it in *practice* as "Keep the
left lane", which is the worst of all possible solutions, because
now some of them find themselves behind a slower car in the right
(pun unintented) lane, and have to merge into *faster* traffic,
instead of into slower.

On single-lane (per direction) roads, it's even worse. They don't
know how to (not) overtake. Suddenly they find themselves behind
another car, which is driving *less* than umpteen percent over the
speed limit. Totally confused, they stay there, bumper to bumper,
for several minutes. Then they apparently realize that that is not
a particularly civil thing to do and back off. Next they stay
*there* for many more minutes, waiting for the opportunity where
they can't pass or/and it's not allowed to pass. *Then* they pass.
Well, actually they don't. They do something and move to the left.
When a front to front collision is imminent, their automatic gearbox
apparently decides that the car actually *can* accelerate, and they
miss their opponent by an inch, and are on their way to their next
attempt to kill eachother.


You were just running into New Jersey tourists. Most of us do know
how to drive. Except seniors who will signal a turn for about 10
miles.


10. Americans don't have coffee.

Of course we were not stupid enough to just ask for "coffee". After
all we've been to Oz and know that "coffee" is not for human
consumption. So we check if they have 'speciality' coffees. Some of
them have the audacity to claim that they have cappuccino, but that
has everything *other* than (espresso) coffee and steamed milk in
it, and is splattered with all kind of silly syrups which make your
eyes pop. All in all, we had only four decent/good coffees, two of
which in San Francisco. Rather pathetic.


Hmmm. Must be why I load up on Swedish coffee everytime I go there.


N.B. Of course the Americans also do not have beer, but that fact is
so indisputable, I won't have to get into *that* one.


Not even close. We have tons of microbreweries that produce beers
that are every bit as good as any beer anywhere in the world. And
widely availble in any liquor store as well. Try a Sam Adams
sometime.


11. Americans don't realize that you don't *have* to 'deep' fry fish.

Why do they insist on deep frying perfectly good fish, even in
places which are directly on the coast, like Morro Bay and
(Fisherman's Warf in) San Francisco? If they don't *like* fish, then
why not just not order/eat it!? No sense in ruining it for others.


Should have gone to Chinatown where they know how to do fish fine.
They're Americans too you know.


Now some - somewhat - nice comments:

12. Americans know how to merge onto freeways.

Because they're wimps, they merge onto freeways quite flawlessly and
their opponents on the freeway let them get away with it! What's
*wrong* with these people!? Don't they know that if you want to
merge onto a freeway, you just switch on your indicator (if you're
an idiot) and move to the left, tough sh*t on the other guy(s)! And
the other guy(s) do everything in their power, like brake/
accelerate, to prevent them get away with it! *That* is how you/we
do these things!


And the way I always doing it, flipping them the bird as I go by.


13. The American all-way stop system on road-crossings is nice.

It takes a little get used to and is sometimes not very efficient,
but it's safe and nice.


Until you run into little old ladies that can't remember who is in
what order. We call that a Mexican standoff here.


14. Americans actually stop for pedestrians.

This one also takes getting used to, but also is quite nice and
safe. Sometimes you're not even trying or wanting to cross the
street and you see stopped cars all around, patiently waiting for
you to make up your bloody mind.


That's because we don't want them denting our nice cars.


15. Americans are mostly nice, friendly people.

We mostly met and talked with nice, friendly people. That's of
course because we're so bloody nice ourselves.


We love foreigners. They're so cute!!


Some noteable examples out of (very) many:

The ranger at the Joshua Tree Visitor Centre, oops, Center was so
nice and enthousiastic that we changed our plan/route according to
his recommendations, and loved every minute of it.

A car salesman with a good sense of humo[u]r: In Pahrump (Nevada) we
walked from the motel to the 'restaurant'. We passed a car-sales
outfit and the salesman said "Oh, people without a car, and they
have to *walk*! How sad!". I said he could sell me a car if he would
deliver it to my home for a thousand bucks, but he didn't fell for
it. Good on him! (Yes, that's actually proper proper English!)


With the car market being what it is, they'll try anything.


To put things in perspective, they were even so nice to give us a
reference point in a staff-member from hell in a Best Western motel
somewhere. To set the tone, she was 'preceded' by two young,
clueless, incompetent and inaudible others. She managed to treat us
like dirt / non-existing for problems which the *motel* caused.


There are another kind?


Well, that's about it I think, at least for the moment. If anyone is
interested in our actual trip - i.e. where we went, why, what we saw,
etc. - then let me know.

If anyone has any doubts, we *loved* our trip and would do something
similar again in a flash, so you Seppos aren't all that bad!



sharx35 December 12th, 2008 06:48 AM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 


"Frank Slootweg" wrote in message
.home.nl...
[Crossposted to rec.travel.usa-canada and rec.travel.australia+nz

For 'reasons' you don't want to know/hear, this time we ended up in
the US - well, actually California, not the real US, but you get my
drift.

I've been to the US on many business trips and worked in California
for about ten weeks. As the rta+n audience is probably painfully aware
of, we pestered the Aussies with not just one trip down-under, but seven
of them. So I feel - probably totally unjustified - qualified to comment
on the US/California from an Oz-traveller's perspective.

So enjoy/suffer, or hit 'n(ext)' NOW.

I won't comment on the 'immigration' disgrace. After all, it's not
fair to judge a country and its people on their government/
'administration', is it? OTOH, I probably *could* be persuaded to
elaborate.

In no particular order, mainly in order of occurance.

1. American rental car rates are a steal.

We payed only 22 Euro - about 28 US$ - per day for a 'compact' car,
including full insurance. Are you kidding me!? For that kind of
money, why would you want to buy/own/maintain a car?

2. Contrary to urban legend, American cars actually *do* have a
boot/trunk.

The lady at Alamo/National tried to convince us that our two small
suitcases would not fit in the boot/trunk/whatever and tried to
prove that with silly graphics. She offered a quite expensive
upgrade to a 'mid-size'. Being quite dead after the long flight from
Munich (*Don't* ask!), we fell for it. At light the next morning, we
saw that the mid-size didn't only fit our suitcases, but also those
of the whole bloody motel. So we went back and got the booked
compact. We could choose it ourselves and opted for a sporty
two-door Chevy Cobalt. A very nice car, for an American one, that
is. Sadly enough my wife didn't appreciate me, temporarily,
exchanging her for a 20-year old, otherwise I would've looked even
'hotter' than I already did.

3. American cars have built-in invisible nice-ladies.

When we picked up the car it was dark and we could not read the
driving instructions to the motel, so I pulled over and (thought I)
switched on the interior light. A nice lady said: "Are you in
trouble? Can I help you?". I explained what I tried to accomplish.
While she could not point me to the right switch, it was a nice but
somewhat scary experience. The whole trip, we were *very* careful,
not to push the 'nice_lady-button' again.

4. American petrol/gas stations charge what they bloody well like.

While American petrol/gas prices are still ridiculously low compared
to Oz/Europe, prices vary by upto a *factor* of two within a short
distance, sometimes even a few miles or even less. I realize that
there's hardly any tax part in the price, so it's mostly 'cost', but
the real cost can't vary that much within such a small area.

5. Americans don't quite grasp what the 'G' in GSM stands for.

They apparently think it means 'the whole world except us', so they
use a different, incompatible frequency.
Luckily our son has more mobile phones than underpants, so he gave
us - no less than three - 'old' multi-band ones. Problem solved, at
least we *thought* so.

6. Americans don't quite grasp that SIMs can be put in *other* phones.

Having a multi-band phone, I went to buy a pre-paid SIM. No such
thing in the US! You can only buy a SIM *and* phone. Duh! I already
*have* a (compatible) phone, *three* of them!

7. Americans don't grasp that mobile phones are actually ... ummm ...
*phones*.

When I wanted/needed to register the pre-paid AT&T GoPhone mobile
phone which I had to buy, AT&T insisted on having me use *another*
phone to perform the registration procedure. Duh! What about using
the bloody mobile phone itself, like is done in every other
country!?

8. Americans don't realize that salt-lakes don't need mobile-phone
coverage, but that towns *do*.

When we found out that our (main) credit-card was blocked (In the
*US*, with a blocked credit-card! The sheer horror!), we also found
that there was no mobile-phone coverage in Lone Pine. Later I saw on
the coverage maps, that by stunning engineering the network people
managed to fully cover the big salt-lake to the south-east of the
town, while completely evading the town itself. No mean feat!

9. Americans can't drive.

They have the "Keep your lane" *theory*, which has its advantages
and disadvantages, but they interpret it in *practice* as "Keep the
left lane", which is the worst of all possible solutions, because
now some of them find themselves behind a slower car in the right
(pun unintented) lane, and have to merge into *faster* traffic,
instead of into slower.

On single-lane (per direction) roads, it's even worse. They don't
know how to (not) overtake. Suddenly they find themselves behind
another car, which is driving *less* than umpteen percent over the
speed limit. Totally confused, they stay there, bumper to bumper,
for several minutes. Then they apparently realize that that is not
a particularly civil thing to do and back off. Next they stay
*there* for many more minutes, waiting for the opportunity where
they can't pass or/and it's not allowed to pass. *Then* they pass.
Well, actually they don't. They do something and move to the left.
When a front to front collision is imminent, their automatic gearbox
apparently decides that the car actually *can* accelerate, and they
miss their opponent by an inch, and are on their way to their next
attempt to kill eachother.

10. Americans don't have coffee.

Of course we were not stupid enough to just ask for "coffee". After
all we've been to Oz and know that "coffee" is not for human
consumption. So we check if they have 'speciality' coffees. Some of
them have the audacity to claim that they have cappuccino, but that
has everything *other* than (espresso) coffee and steamed milk in
it, and is splattered with all kind of silly syrups which make your
eyes pop. All in all, we had only four decent/good coffees, two of
which in San Francisco. Rather pathetic.

N.B. Of course the Americans also do not have beer, but that fact is
so indisputable, I won't have to get into *that* one.

11. Americans don't realize that you don't *have* to 'deep' fry fish.

Why do they insist on deep frying perfectly good fish, even in
places which are directly on the coast, like Morro Bay and
(Fisherman's Warf in) San Francisco? If they don't *like* fish, then
why not just not order/eat it!? No sense in ruining it for others.

Now some - somewhat - nice comments:

12. Americans know how to merge onto freeways.

Because they're wimps, they merge onto freeways quite flawlessly and
their opponents on the freeway let them get away with it! What's
*wrong* with these people!? Don't they know that if you want to
merge onto a freeway, you just switch on your indicator (if you're
an idiot) and move to the left, tough sh*t on the other guy(s)! And
the other guy(s) do everything in their power, like brake/
accelerate, to prevent them get away with it! *That* is how you/we
do these things!

13. The American all-way stop system on road-crossings is nice.

It takes a little get used to and is sometimes not very efficient,
but it's safe and nice.

14. Americans actually stop for pedestrians.

This one also takes getting used to, but also is quite nice and
safe. Sometimes you're not even trying or wanting to cross the
street and you see stopped cars all around, patiently waiting for
you to make up your bloody mind.

15. Americans are mostly nice, friendly people.

We mostly met and talked with nice, friendly people. That's of
course because we're so bloody nice ourselves.

Some noteable examples out of (very) many:

The ranger at the Joshua Tree Visitor Centre, oops, Center was so
nice and enthousiastic that we changed our plan/route according to
his recommendations, and loved every minute of it.

A car salesman with a good sense of humo[u]r: In Pahrump (Nevada) we
walked from the motel to the 'restaurant'. We passed a car-sales
outfit and the salesman said "Oh, people without a car, and they
have to *walk*! How sad!". I said he could sell me a car if he would
deliver it to my home for a thousand bucks, but he didn't fell for
it. Good on him! (Yes, that's actually proper proper English!)

To put things in perspective, they were even so nice to give us a
reference point in a staff-member from hell in a Best Western motel
somewhere. To set the tone, she was 'preceded' by two young,
clueless, incompetent and inaudible others. She managed to treat us
like dirt / non-existing for problems which the *motel* caused.

Well, that's about it I think, at least for the moment. If anyone is
interested in our actual trip - i.e. where we went, why, what we saw,
etc. - then let me know.

If anyone has any doubts, we *loved* our trip and would do something
similar again in a flash, so you Seppos aren't all that bad!


Well, I have travelled in the U.S., too. After several dozen trips to the
U.S.,
**MY** bad experiences are a fraction of yours. I suspect it might be due to
your arrogant Eurocentric, obviously chip on the shoulder attitude to U.S.
culture. I am not a U.S. resident nor a U.S. citizen, however I much prefer
to travel in the U.S., compared
to the continent of Europe where the common attitude is that "WE are the
centre of the cultural universe
and the rest of the world are wannabes or boors". :Hell will freeze over
before I
travel to the continent of decay, Europe.





sharx35 December 12th, 2008 06:51 AM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 


"Frank Slootweg" wrote in message
b.home.nl...
AZ Nomad wrote:
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:30:33 +0100, Frank Slootweg
wrote:
[Crossposted to rec.travel.usa-canada and rec.travel.australia+nz


7. Americans don't grasp that mobile phones are actually ... ummm ...
*phones*.


When I wanted/needed to register the pre-paid AT&T GoPhone mobile
phone which I had to buy, AT&T insisted on having me use *another*
phone to perform the registration procedure. Duh! What about using
the bloody mobile phone itself, like is done in every other
country!?


usually the procedure involves popping out the battery and reading
back the ESN and also power cycling the phone. It's kind of difficult
to remain on a call if your phone is powered down.


You need the ICCID of the SIM ('SmartChip TM') and the IMEI number.
Both are on labels on the outside of the package in which the phone,
etc. comes. So no need to power down.

The "Start here to activate your GoPhone(R) Service" leaflet
painstakingly explains all of that, also in Spanish :-), but even if you
don't RTFM (*Moi*?), the nice computerized lady explains what to get
where and even waits till you're done! I *love* nice computerized
ladies!

But more to the point, in other, albeit civilized :-), countries,
mobile-phone SPs don't need all that mumbo-jumbo, the phones come
working right out-of-the-box, including the phone number. You just can't
call anybody *else*, before you've registered [1] the phone by using the
very same phone. Makes kind of sense doesn't it!?

[Other comments - thanks - deleted.]

[1] I don't think I *had* to register my Dutch SIM. They just *wanted*
you to register and gave you a bonus (free credit) if/when you did.
I *did* have to register my Australian Vodafone and Telstra SIMs, and I
had to (sort of) register myself when buying them. ("What's your address
in Australia?". Duh! I'm a bloody furrin tourist, ain't I?


No, but you ARE a first-class ****ing asshole. ****ups like you, please stay
OUT of the U.S.
AND Canada. We do NOT want your ****ing arrogant asses over here. The
Netherlands
is just another 3rd rate nation, you know. But for a good storm, it would
cease to exist. BRING IT ON!!!!! Let's
see a North Sea tsunami!!!






Frank Slootweg December 12th, 2008 11:18 AM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 
Sharx35 wrote:

Well, I have travelled in the U.S., too. After several dozen trips to
the U.S., **MY** bad experiences are a fraction of yours. I suspect it
might be due to your arrogant Eurocentric, obviously chip on the
shoulder attitude to U.S. culture. I am not a U.S. resident nor a
U.S. citizen, however I much prefer to travel in the U.S., compared to
the continent of Europe where the common attitude is that "WE are the
centre of the cultural universe and the rest of the world are wannabes
or boors". :Hell will freeze over before I travel to the continent of
decay, Europe.


If you tried a parody of the sterotype dumb American, then you
succeeded with flying colors.

If, as I'm afraid, your response was serious, you *are* the
stereotype, dumb and no sense of humo[u]r whatsoever.

We *had* no "bad experiences" (except for the one staff member from
hell). We had a *great* time and I *said* so.

Of course you are fully entitled to your travel preferences, like any
of us is. So if you dislike Europe/the_Europeans, don't go there, plain
and simple.

In any case, *all* sterotyping is wrong by definition, i.e. also
sterotyping of Americans and Europeans (except of course for the French!
:-)).

Luckily - to no suprise - all others picked up on my humo[u]r, irony,
sarcasm, self-infliction, etc.. So if you didn't/don't like it, tough!

Frank Slootweg December 12th, 2008 11:35 AM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 
[For one member of the audience: That your newsreader doesn't display
invisble smileys, isn't my/our problem.]

Bert Hyman wrote:
In b.home.nl Frank
Slootweg wrote:

So now I'm the proud owner of a beautiful, but totally useless
(outside the US), AT&T GoPhone Nokia 2610 phone [1]. It cost me all of
US$ 19.99 (without tax, mind you (Don't get me started on the
without-tax thingie.)), so I'm not complaining. *And* it includes a
charger which is 110-240VAC (not 240VAC-only), so I can use it
everywhere for all my Nokia phones (albeit with plug-adapters, which
are needed anyway)!


That's an interesting aspect of the way phones are sold here (by
T-Mobile, anyway). You can often walk into a chain discount store (like
Target or WalMart) and buy a phone for $20 which includes a $25 airtime
card.


Yes, that's same in most countries, i.e. also in Europe/Oz (assuming
*you* are talking about the US (my tools are failing on analyzing your
headers, but AFAIK "WalMart" is US-only/mainly)).

"airtime"? *Don't* get me started on that one! Oops, you just did!

That's also a strange and silly concept for 'us' (from Europe/Oz).

*Paying* for the time you *don't* yet/still have a connection?
*Paying* for outgoing *no-connection* calls? *Paying* for *incoming*
calls (while in your 'home' country), possibly from total strangers,
wrong-number, etc.? How silly is *that*?

Luckily you didn't say "X *minutes* of airtime", otherwise I had to
(not) start on *that* one!

sharx35 December 12th, 2008 12:00 PM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 


"Frank Slootweg" wrote in message
b.home.nl...
Sharx35 wrote:

Well, I have travelled in the U.S., too. After several dozen trips to
the U.S., **MY** bad experiences are a fraction of yours. I suspect it
might be due to your arrogant Eurocentric, obviously chip on the
shoulder attitude to U.S. culture. I am not a U.S. resident nor a
U.S. citizen, however I much prefer to travel in the U.S., compared to
the continent of Europe where the common attitude is that "WE are the
centre of the cultural universe and the rest of the world are wannabes
or boors". :Hell will freeze over before I travel to the continent of
decay, Europe.


If you tried a parody of the sterotype dumb American, then you
succeeded with flying colors.

If, as I'm afraid, your response was serious, you *are* the
stereotype, dumb and no sense of humo[u]r whatsoever.

We *had* no "bad experiences" (except for the one staff member from
hell). We had a *great* time and I *said* so.

Of course you are fully entitled to your travel preferences, like any
of us is. So if you dislike Europe/the_Europeans, don't go there, plain
and simple.

In any case, *all* sterotyping is wrong by definition, i.e. also
sterotyping of Americans and Europeans (except of course for the French!
:-)).

Luckily - to no suprise - all others picked up on my humo[u]r, irony,
sarcasm, self-infliction, etc.. So if you didn't/don't like it, tough!


Bull ****ing ****. You bitched, whined and moaned throughout 90% of your
snivelling post. FOAD, already.





Frank Slootweg December 12th, 2008 01:05 PM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 
John Kulp wrote:
Well written and funny, but not entirely accurate. See below.


Thanks and thanks for your humor in return.

I'll respond only to some points. (No use in responding to all/most
humor-humor responses, nor to humor-serious responses.)

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:30:33 +0100, Frank Slootweg
wrote:

[...]
2. Contrary to urban legend, American cars actually *do* have a boot/trunk.

The lady at Alamo/National tried to convince us that our two small
suitcases would not fit in the boot/trunk/whatever and tried to
prove that with silly graphics. She offered a quite expensive
upgrade to a 'mid-size'. Being quite dead after the long flight from
Munich (*Don't* ask!), we fell for it. At light the next morning, we
saw that the mid-size didn't only fit our suitcases, but also those
of the whole bloody motel. So we went back and got the booked
compact. We could choose it ourselves and opted for a sporty
two-door Chevy Cobalt. A very nice car, for an American one, that
is. Sadly enough my wife didn't appreciate me, temporarily,
exchanging her for a 20-year old, otherwise I would've looked even
'hotter' than I already did.


Found out what rental car agents on commission do, did you?


Nah, I'm apparently a sucker for women, 'even' (or especially?)
(somewhat) older ones, and apparently my wife has no control over me.
OTOH there are all these nice people in white coats all around me, so
*something* must have happened!

[...]

4. American petrol/gas stations charge what they bloody well like.

While American petrol/gas prices are still ridiculously low compared
to Oz/Europe, prices vary by upto a *factor* of two within a short
distance, sometimes even a few miles or even less. I realize that
there's hardly any tax part in the price, so it's mostly 'cost', but
the real cost can't vary that much within such a small area.


That's what happens when you have free markets that are not
monopolized. You get a choice.


That the same in Europe/Oz, but the tax component is *so* high that
the differences in end-price are relatively (i.e. percentage-wise)
small. I.e. with taxes upto 70 odd percent, you will only see a
six-seven percent difference max in end-prices.

5. Americans don't quite grasp what the 'G' in GSM stands for.

They apparently think it means 'the whole world except us', so they
use a different, incompatible frequency.
Luckily our son has more mobile phones than underpants, so he gave
us - no less than three - 'old' multi-band ones. Problem solved, at
least we *thought* so.


Funny, I have one I bought here that works anywhere in the world.


Sorry, but I don't follow! Didn't I say the exact same thing? I.e. my
(son's) phone also "works anywhere in the world". The fact that I *can*
buy a phone that *doesn't* work anywhere in the world, doesn't mean I
*cannot* buy *another type* of phone which *does*.

6. Americans don't quite grasp that SIMs can be put in *other* phones.

Having a multi-band phone, I went to buy a pre-paid SIM. No such
thing in the US! You can only buy a SIM *and* phone. Duh! I already
*have* a (compatible) phone, *three* of them!


Completely wrong. Just do a search for "pre-paid SIM in the US" and
see what you find.


Can you give a *specific* reference? As I said, I *did* search before
our trip and didn't find anything suitable. BTW, the guy at the Radio
Shack store where I eventually bought the SIM+phone didn't understand
what I meant when I said I wanted a SIM for my phone.

7. Americans don't grasp that mobile phones are actually ... ummm ...
*phones*.

When I wanted/needed to register the pre-paid AT&T GoPhone mobile
phone which I had to buy, AT&T insisted on having me use *another*
phone to perform the registration procedure. Duh! What about using
the bloody mobile phone itself, like is done in every other
country!?


You just found out why nobody uses ATT here. There are lots of other
you know.


Yes, but my prime concern is network-coverage. I've been bitten too
many times by non-coverage in rural areas or/and no-roaming onto other/
better networks, that I don't go for less-known brands anymore. Before
our trip I checked T-Mobile USA's (GSM) coverage in the areas where we
wanted to go, and it was worse than AT&T's. So I got a AT&T SIM(/phone).

For example in Australia it's Telstra for me, both mobile and 'fixed'
(pre-paid phone/calling card). I don't need to call that often/long, so
price/rates is of less concern, but *when* I need to call, I want to be
*able* to, and not be stuck with "A bloody useless mobile phone"
(courtesy John Williamson).

[...]

You were just running into New Jersey tourists. Most of us do know
how to drive. Except seniors who will signal a turn for about 10
miles.


Careful! You're *talking* to one of them there "seniors"!

[...]

Hmmm. Must be why I load up on Swedish coffee everytime I go there.


*Don't* get me started on the Swedes!

But seriously (why?), I never heard of Swedish coffee. Probably have
to try it some time.

N.B. Of course the Americans also do not have beer, but that fact is
so indisputable, I won't have to get into *that* one.


Not even close. We have tons of microbreweries that produce beers
that are every bit as good as any beer anywhere in the world. And
widely availble in any liquor store as well. Try a Sam Adams
sometime.


The beer-bashing thingie does the trick every time, doesn't it?

11. Americans don't realize that you don't *have* to 'deep' fry fish.

Why do they insist on deep frying perfectly good fish, even in
places which are directly on the coast, like Morro Bay and
(Fisherman's Warf in) San Francisco? If they don't *like* fish, then
why not just not order/eat it!? No sense in ruining it for others.


Should have gone to Chinatown where they know how to do fish fine.
They're Americans too you know.


We actually *did* go there, but for some strange reason we couldn't
read the signs. I wonder why!

But seriously, San Francisco's Chinatown is *huge*, isn't it? It went
on for blocks and blocks and blocks!

[...]

14. Americans actually stop for pedestrians.

This one also takes getting used to, but also is quite nice and
safe. Sometimes you're not even trying or wanting to cross the
street and you see stopped cars all around, patiently waiting for
you to make up your bloody mind.


That's because we don't want them denting our nice cars.


Great one! One to remember!

15. Americans are mostly nice, friendly people.

We mostly met and talked with nice, friendly people. That's of
course because we're so bloody nice ourselves.


We love foreigners. They're so cute!!


You can get us as pets, you know, and we're mostly house-trained.

OTOH, I couldn't find a toilet *anywhere*, and these people kept pointing
me to 'restroom's while I wasn't even tired! Stupid idiots! So after
getting home after two weeks, I had to have some *serious* leak (mostly
due to that beer####Bud of yours)!

[...]

To put things in perspective, they were even so nice to give us a
reference point in a staff-member from hell in a Best Western motel
somewhere. To set the tone, she was 'preceded' by two young,
clueless, incompetent and inaudible others. She managed to treat us
like dirt / non-existing for problems which the *motel* caused.


There are another kind?


(Ignoring the invisible smiley,) Yes, our experience was mostly
positive or at least neutral. If you treat them nice/friendly and with
respect, most people will return the favor, and that goes both ways
(service person -- customer).

[...]

Frank Slootweg December 12th, 2008 01:12 PM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 
Sharx35 wrote:

"Frank Slootweg" wrote in message
b.home.nl...
Sharx35 wrote:

Well, I have travelled in the U.S., too. After several dozen trips to
the U.S., **MY** bad experiences are a fraction of yours. I suspect it
might be due to your arrogant Eurocentric, obviously chip on the
shoulder attitude to U.S. culture. I am not a U.S. resident nor a
U.S. citizen, however I much prefer to travel in the U.S., compared to
the continent of Europe where the common attitude is that "WE are the
centre of the cultural universe and the rest of the world are wannabes
or boors". :Hell will freeze over before I travel to the continent of
decay, Europe.


If you tried a parody of the sterotype dumb American, then you
succeeded with flying colors.

If, as I'm afraid, your response was serious, you *are* the
stereotype, dumb and no sense of humo[u]r whatsoever.

We *had* no "bad experiences" (except for the one staff member from
hell). We had a *great* time and I *said* so.

Of course you are fully entitled to your travel preferences, like any
of us is. So if you dislike Europe/the_Europeans, don't go there, plain
and simple.

In any case, *all* sterotyping is wrong by definition, i.e. also
sterotyping of Americans and Europeans (except of course for the French!
:-)).

Luckily - to no suprise - all others picked up on my humo[u]r, irony,
sarcasm, self-infliction, etc.. So if you didn't/don't like it, tough!


Bull ****ing ****. You bitched, whined and moaned throughout 90% of your
snivelling post. FOAD, already.


Thanks for removing any doubt which any of us might have had (As *if*!)!

Frank Slootweg December 12th, 2008 01:27 PM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 
Don Kirkman wrote:
It seems to me I heard somewhere that Frank Slootweg wrote in article
e.nl:

[...]
The extremes were on highway 395, probably somewhere between where
89 joins from the west and Bridgeport in the south. Next time I'll make
pictures! :-)


Western geography has a large effect on gas prices. The northerly end
of the Sierras is sparsely settled and prices will tend to be
higher--higher hauling costs and fewer gallons sold. From about
Bridgeport south you come abreast of the state and federal parks
across the mountains (Yosemite, for instance) and have more and larger
towns, hence more traffic. This may account for lower prices


Your explanation sounds very plausible! I *did* think about the
sparsely settled/isolated aspects, because we're used to that from our
travels in Oz ("Did we see a car today?", "Yes.", "Wow, this is a bloody
busy road!"). But I thought, different places on one and the same road
shouldn't make any difference. But I didn't think about the *crossroads*
(especially because some/most of them - noteably the Yosemite one and
the one just above - were closed at the time).

Thanks.

Mike O'Sullivan December 12th, 2008 02:13 PM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 
Frank Slootweg wrote:
Hmmm! Before going to the US, I looked at AT&T's and T-Mobile USA's
websites. I didn't find anything like that on the AT&T site (Don't get
me started on AT&T sites.), and the T-Mobile USA site specifically said
that you could get SIM-only only via their website (and because that
required a US ship-to address, that was no option (not counting the
poorer (than AT&T) coverage)).

So now I'm the proud owner of a beautiful, but totally useless
(outside the US), AT&T GoPhone Nokia 2610 phone [1]. It cost me all of
US$ 19.99 (without tax, mind you (Don't get me started on the
without-tax thingie.)), so I'm not complaining. *And* it includes a charger
which is 110-240VAC (not 240VAC-only), so I can use it everywhere for
all my Nokia phones (albeit with plug-adapters, which are needed
anyway)!


I use an unlocked Nokia.
and I've never had any trouble in Canada buying a Fido SIM card.

Mike O'Sullivan December 12th, 2008 02:15 PM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 
Sharx35 wrote:

Well, I have travelled in the U.S., too. After several dozen trips to
the U.S.,
**MY** bad experiences are a fraction of yours. I suspect it might be
due to
your arrogant Eurocentric, obviously chip on the shoulder attitude to U.S.
culture. I am not a U.S. resident nor a U.S. citizen, however I much
prefer to travel in the U.S., compared
to the continent of Europe where the common attitude is that "WE are the
centre of the cultural universe
and the rest of the world are wannabes or boors". :Hell will freeze over
before I
travel to the continent of decay, Europe.


No, please don't!

Frank Slootweg December 12th, 2008 05:38 PM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 
Mike O'Sullivan wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote:
Hmmm! Before going to the US, I looked at AT&T's and T-Mobile USA's
websites. I didn't find anything like that on the AT&T site (Don't get
me started on AT&T sites.), and the T-Mobile USA site specifically said
that you could get SIM-only only via their website (and because that
required a US ship-to address, that was no option (not counting the
poorer (than AT&T) coverage)).

So now I'm the proud owner of a beautiful, but totally useless
(outside the US), AT&T GoPhone Nokia 2610 phone [1]. It cost me all of
US$ 19.99 (without tax, mind you (Don't get me started on the
without-tax thingie.)), so I'm not complaining. *And* it includes a charger
which is 110-240VAC (not 240VAC-only), so I can use it everywhere for
all my Nokia phones (albeit with plug-adapters, which are needed
anyway)!


I use an unlocked Nokia.
and I've never had any trouble in Canada buying a Fido SIM card.


Very interesting, but I wasn't and we weren't talking about Canada,
was I / were we!? :-)

And why would you want to buy a SIM card for your dog!? :-)

Frank Slootweg December 12th, 2008 06:14 PM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 
[Re-added rec.travel.australia+nz because of the references to Oz (and I
don't believe in splitting up running discussions, unless there is a
very good reason). Of course anyone is free to think/act otherwise.]

Lawrence Akutagawa wrote:
[...]

Just for your edification - in California the sales tax (about 8.25%,
depending on where in the state) is already included in the quoted per
gallon price of gasoline. A number of years ago it was excluded from the
quoted price such that the tax was calculated subsequently as per all other
taxable purchases. But no longer.


"tax", you pushed yet another one of my buttons (Perhaps that Sharx35
dude was right after all!?).

The tax thingie is rather confusing, needlessly complex, and, AFAICT,
has no advantages for the customer.

In most - but not all - cases, tax was excluded. As you say, the
percentage depends on the location and probably also on the type of
product/service. If you're buying one or a few products, it's hard to
impossible to give the shop attendant the exact amount or to (try to)
get as little change as possible back, until the cash register has
calculated how much you own. That is a nuisance, only takes addtional
time, and I see no advantage (*Is* there any advantage?).

In comparison, in Europe/Oz the sales price always includes the tax
(well, nearly always for Oz). In our country - The Netherlands - it's
even illegal to quote exclusive prices to 'consumers'. At minimal both
exclusive and inclusive have to be quoted, and even that is severely
frowned upon.

And it is always a good idea when driving an unfamiliar car for the first
time to check out all the controls - including the one releasing the gas
tank lid - before driving off. It is rather dicey to have to find the
windshield wiper control while going 70 mph in a sudden downpour at night.


Yeah, I normally do that, at least when there's some light, which
there (much) wasn't for our first rental.

One time, after driving from SFO airport to somewhere in Silicon
Valley, I found myself in front of the motel, unable to get the key out
of the ignition. Had to push some unkown button, which European cars
didn't/don't have. Quite annoying and embarrasing after a light flight
from Europe.

I didn't check the gas tank lid, but I filled up early and we had the
nice lady in the mirror, hadn't we!?

Hope you had a good time and saw some things different than from where you
are.


We had and did. If anything was even remotely 'familiar' it was Joshua
Tree NP, Mojave NP and Death Valley NP, and it was only somewhat similar
to the things we love in Australia, so we just had a cheaper - and sadly
enough much shorter - trip, than our 'normal' trips to/in Australia. Our
daughter asked "So the US is your new Australia?". Well it isn't, but
it's beautiful as well and comparisons are equally sillay as unfair.

I trust you were able to range as far north as Bodie and perhaps as
far east as Zion. You next go, try working in Bryce, Capitol Reef, Arches,
Canyonlands, Dead Horse Point, Goblin Valley, Mesa Verde, Monument Valley,
etc. You won't regret doing so.


(Without looking them up,) Most of the places you mention don't ring a
bell. To be clear, we visited only California (and a tiny bit (Pahrump)
of Nevada) and only a *part* of CA (see above).

Lawrence Akutagawa December 12th, 2008 07:11 PM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 

"Frank Slootweg" wrote in message
b.home.nl...
[Re-added rec.travel.australia+nz because of the references to Oz (and I
don't believe in splitting up running discussions, unless there is a
very good reason). Of course anyone is free to think/act otherwise.]

Lawrence Akutagawa wrote:
[...]

Just for your edification - in California the sales tax (about 8.25%,
depending on where in the state) is already included in the quoted per
gallon price of gasoline. A number of years ago it was excluded from the
quoted price such that the tax was calculated subsequently as per all
other
taxable purchases. But no longer.


"tax", you pushed yet another one of my buttons (Perhaps that Sharx35
dude was right after all!?).

The tax thingie is rather confusing, needlessly complex, and, AFAICT,
has no advantages for the customer.

In most - but not all - cases, tax was excluded. As you say, the
percentage depends on the location and probably also on the type of
product/service. If you're buying one or a few products, it's hard to
impossible to give the shop attendant the exact amount or to (try to)
get as little change as possible back, until the cash register has
calculated how much you own. That is a nuisance, only takes addtional
time, and I see no advantage (*Is* there any advantage?).

In comparison, in Europe/Oz the sales price always includes the tax
(well, nearly always for Oz). In our country - The Netherlands - it's
even illegal to quote exclusive prices to 'consumers'. At minimal both
exclusive and inclusive have to be quoted, and even that is severely
frowned upon.

And it is always a good idea when driving an unfamiliar car for the first
time to check out all the controls - including the one releasing the gas
tank lid - before driving off. It is rather dicey to have to find the
windshield wiper control while going 70 mph in a sudden downpour at
night.


Yeah, I normally do that, at least when there's some light, which
there (much) wasn't for our first rental.

One time, after driving from SFO airport to somewhere in Silicon
Valley, I found myself in front of the motel, unable to get the key out
of the ignition. Had to push some unkown button, which European cars
didn't/don't have. Quite annoying and embarrasing after a light flight
from Europe.

I didn't check the gas tank lid, but I filled up early and we had the
nice lady in the mirror, hadn't we!?

Hope you had a good time and saw some things different than from where
you
are.


We had and did. If anything was even remotely 'familiar' it was Joshua
Tree NP, Mojave NP and Death Valley NP, and it was only somewhat similar
to the things we love in Australia, so we just had a cheaper - and sadly
enough much shorter - trip, than our 'normal' trips to/in Australia. Our
daughter asked "So the US is your new Australia?". Well it isn't, but
it's beautiful as well and comparisons are equally sillay as unfair.

I trust you were able to range as far north as Bodie and perhaps as
far east as Zion. You next go, try working in Bryce, Capitol Reef,
Arches,
Canyonlands, Dead Horse Point, Goblin Valley, Mesa Verde, Monument
Valley,
etc. You won't regret doing so.


(Without looking them up,) Most of the places you mention don't ring a
bell. To be clear, we visited only California (and a tiny bit (Pahrump)
of Nevada) and only a *part* of CA (see above).




mcdonaldREMOVE TO ACTUALLY REACH [email protected] December 12th, 2008 07:29 PM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 
Frank Slootweg wrote:

11. Americans don't realize that you don't *have* to 'deep' fry fish.

Americans do, however, realize that if you don't want fried fish, you
shouldn't seek out resturants that sell only fried fish.


My point (which you snipped) was/is that there *are* no other
restaurants (in those areas). So apparently many/most Americans *do* want/
tolerate such 'food'.


If you are reffering to 395, I certainly remember places to
get good fish in both Lone Pine and Bishop.

Doug McDonald

Lawrence Akutagawa December 12th, 2008 07:31 PM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 

"Frank Slootweg" wrote in message
b.home.nl...
[Re-added rec.travel.australia+nz because of the references to Oz (and I
don't believe in splitting up running discussions, unless there is a
very good reason). Of course anyone is free to think/act otherwise.]

Lawrence Akutagawa wrote:
[...]

Just for your edification - in California the sales tax (about 8.25%,
depending on where in the state) is already included in the quoted per
gallon price of gasoline. A number of years ago it was excluded from the
quoted price such that the tax was calculated subsequently as per all
other
taxable purchases. But no longer.


"tax", you pushed yet another one of my buttons (Perhaps that Sharx35
dude was right after all!?).

The tax thingie is rather confusing, needlessly complex, and, AFAICT,
has no advantages for the customer.

In most - but not all - cases, tax was excluded. As you say, the
percentage depends on the location and probably also on the type of
product/service. If you're buying one or a few products, it's hard to
impossible to give the shop attendant the exact amount or to (try to)
get as little change as possible back, until the cash register has
calculated how much you own. That is a nuisance, only takes addtional
time, and I see no advantage (*Is* there any advantage?).

Now that is interesting. Throughout California, all taxes are included in
the per gallon price such that what you pay - strictly for gas - is what is
displayed on the pump. So if the pump says the purchase is for $20.50, then
you pay $20.50 for gas at the register. Of course if you pick up some odds
and ends (snacks, etc.) at the register you will have the sales tax added
onto the nominal price of those items. That pump price, by the way, does
include federal and state fuel taxes - which are separate from the sales
tax. And to make things even more murky, that sales tax is calculated not
just on the cost of the fuel, but on those federal and state fuel taxes as
well...at least it did back when the sales tax was excluded from the pump
price. A label on the pump itself details the various fuel taxes per
gallon.

And it is always a good idea when driving an unfamiliar car for the first
time to check out all the controls - including the one releasing the gas
tank lid - before driving off. It is rather dicey to have to find the
windshield wiper control while going 70 mph in a sudden downpour at
night.


Yeah, I normally do that, at least when there's some light, which
there (much) wasn't for our first rental.

One time, after driving from SFO airport to somewhere in Silicon
Valley, I found myself in front of the motel, unable to get the key out
of the ignition. Had to push some unkown button, which European cars
didn't/don't have. Quite annoying and embarrasing after a light flight
from Europe.

I didn't check the gas tank lid, but I filled up early and we had the
nice lady in the mirror, hadn't we!?

Hope you had a good time and saw some things different than from where
you
are.


We had and did. If anything was even remotely 'familiar' it was Joshua
Tree NP, Mojave NP and Death Valley NP, and it was only somewhat similar
to the things we love in Australia, so we just had a cheaper - and sadly
enough much shorter - trip, than our 'normal' trips to/in Australia. Our
daughter asked "So the US is your new Australia?". Well it isn't, but
it's beautiful as well and comparisons are equally sillay as unfair.

I trust you were able to range as far north as Bodie and perhaps as
far east as Zion. You next go, try working in Bryce, Capitol Reef,
Arches,
Canyonlands, Dead Horse Point, Goblin Valley, Mesa Verde, Monument
Valley,
etc. You won't regret doing so.


(Without looking them up,) Most of the places you mention don't ring a
bell. To be clear, we visited only California (and a tiny bit (Pahrump)
of Nevada) and only a *part* of CA (see above).

Do a net search of some of the places I named. Particularly if you like
nature, you'll like visiting those places the next trip here. In fact, you
can make a two week or so loop from Las Vegas visiting those areas. One
example - if you've enjoyed the scenery in those old Westerns (particularly
those John Wayne movies like Stagecoach, The Searchers, Fort Apache, She
Wore a Yellow Ribbon, etc.) you'll like and appreciate Monument Valley. A
bit more modern are the beginning scenes of Back to the Future Part III,
filmed also in Monument Valley.



mcdonaldREMOVE TO ACTUALLY REACH [email protected] December 12th, 2008 07:37 PM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 
Lawrence Akutagawa wrote:

I trust you were able to range as far north as Bodie and perhaps as
far east as Zion. You next go, try working in Bryce, Capitol Reef,
Arches,
Canyonlands, Dead Horse Point, Goblin Valley, Mesa Verde, Monument
Valley,
etc. You won't regret doing so.

(Without looking them up,) Most of the places you mention don't ring a
bell. To be clear, we visited only California (and a tiny bit (Pahrump)
of Nevada) and only a *part* of CA (see above).




"those places" are "just" east of where you were in California. They
are past the southern tip of Nevada over in (mostly) Utah.

They are the "high desert" that is so iconic of the American west.
You know, the big red sandstone formations. Ultra spectacular.

Doug McDonald

Mike O'Sullivan December 12th, 2008 07:42 PM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 
Frank Slootweg wrote:
Mike O'Sullivan wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote:
Hmmm! Before going to the US, I looked at AT&T's and T-Mobile USA's
websites. I didn't find anything like that on the AT&T site (Don't get
me started on AT&T sites.), and the T-Mobile USA site specifically said
that you could get SIM-only only via their website (and because that
required a US ship-to address, that was no option (not counting the
poorer (than AT&T) coverage)).

So now I'm the proud owner of a beautiful, but totally useless
(outside the US), AT&T GoPhone Nokia 2610 phone [1]. It cost me all of
US$ 19.99 (without tax, mind you (Don't get me started on the
without-tax thingie.)), so I'm not complaining. *And* it includes a charger
which is 110-240VAC (not 240VAC-only), so I can use it everywhere for
all my Nokia phones (albeit with plug-adapters, which are needed
anyway)!

I use an unlocked Nokia.
and I've never had any trouble in Canada buying a Fido SIM card.


Very interesting, but I wasn't and we weren't talking about Canada,
was I / were we!? :-)


It's North America, but if the information is uninteresting, feel free
to ignore it.

Frank Slootweg December 12th, 2008 08:26 PM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 
"mcdonaldREMOVE wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote:

11. Americans don't realize that you don't *have* to 'deep' fry fish.

Americans do, however, realize that if you don't want fried fish, you
shouldn't seek out resturants that sell only fried fish.


My point (which you snipped) was/is that there *are* no other
restaurants (in those areas). So apparently many/most Americans *do* want/
tolerate such 'food'.


If you are reffering to 395, I certainly remember places to
get good fish in both Lone Pine and Bishop.


With "in those areas", I was referring to the coastal places I
mentioned, specifically Morro Bay (just above San Luis Obispo) and
Fisherman's Warf in San Francisco.

*Fisherman*'s Warf and mostly crappy (deep fried) fish? A rather
strange combination, I would think! Case in point: We had
some rather decent (grilled) fish (swordfish, salmon etc. shrimps) in a
restaurant at Fisherman's Warf, but when the waitress gave us our menus,
she said that today's special was salmon. When we asked if it was fried,
she said yes! Sigh!

On 395 we stayed in Bridgeport (i.e. before Bishop). We had deep fried
stuff there, but it was just a simple, mostly take-away place, so we
can't complain about that, and the deep fried fish wasn't that bad.
Actually it was the best of the few times we had it.

We also stayed in Lone Pine, twice. First time we didn't even look for
fish, but had some very nice pizzas (Mind your own bloody business,
Alan! :-)). I can't go into details about our second stay because that
would reveal too much information in this public forum. (However, you
can probably put two and two together, and come up with something quite
close or equal to four.)

Frank Slootweg December 12th, 2008 08:34 PM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 
Mike O'Sullivan wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote:
Mike O'Sullivan wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote:
Hmmm! Before going to the US, I looked at AT&T's and T-Mobile USA's
websites. I didn't find anything like that on the AT&T site (Don't get
me started on AT&T sites.), and the T-Mobile USA site specifically said
that you could get SIM-only only via their website (and because that
required a US ship-to address, that was no option (not counting the
poorer (than AT&T) coverage)).

So now I'm the proud owner of a beautiful, but totally useless
(outside the US), AT&T GoPhone Nokia 2610 phone [1]. It cost me all of
US$ 19.99 (without tax, mind you (Don't get me started on the
without-tax thingie.)), so I'm not complaining. *And* it includes a charger
which is 110-240VAC (not 240VAC-only), so I can use it everywhere for
all my Nokia phones (albeit with plug-adapters, which are needed
anyway)!
I use an unlocked Nokia.
and I've never had any trouble in Canada buying a Fido SIM card.


Very interesting, but I wasn't and we weren't talking about Canada,
was I / were we!? :-)


It's North America, but if the information is uninteresting, feel free
to ignore it.


I think the Canucks (sp?) would probably take offense at the "North
America" classification! :-)

But seriously, please feel free to post anything you like or/and to
ignore me. After all, this is Usenet, isn't it, so anything goes. I just
thought it was funny that you responded to a posting with subject "...
US ..." and splattered all over with "US[A]" this, "US[A]" that, but gave a
non-US related response. But then again, we Dutch are easily pleased.

Don Kirkman[_2_] December 12th, 2008 11:35 PM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 
It seems to me I heard somewhere that Lawrence Akutagawa wrote in
article :

"Frank Slootweg" wrote in message
. nb.home.nl...
[Re-added rec.travel.australia+nz because of the references to Oz (and I
don't believe in splitting up running discussions, unless there is a
very good reason). Of course anyone is free to think/act otherwise.]


Lawrence Akutagawa wrote:
[...]


Just for your edification - in California the sales tax (about 8.25%,
depending on where in the state) is already included in the quoted per
gallon price of gasoline. A number of years ago it was excluded from the
quoted price such that the tax was calculated subsequently as per all
other
taxable purchases. But no longer.


"tax", you pushed yet another one of my buttons (Perhaps that Sharx35
dude was right after all!?).


The tax thingie is rather confusing, needlessly complex, and, AFAICT,
has no advantages for the customer.


In most - but not all - cases, tax was excluded. As you say, the
percentage depends on the location and probably also on the type of
product/service. If you're buying one or a few products, it's hard to
impossible to give the shop attendant the exact amount or to (try to)
get as little change as possible back, until the cash register has
calculated how much you own. That is a nuisance, only takes addtional
time, and I see no advantage (*Is* there any advantage?).


Now that is interesting. Throughout California, all taxes are included in
the per gallon price such that what you pay - strictly for gas - is what is
displayed on the pump. So if the pump says the purchase is for $20.50, then
you pay $20.50 for gas at the register. Of course if you pick up some odds
and ends (snacks, etc.) at the register you will have the sales tax added
onto the nominal price of those items. That pump price, by the way, does
include federal and state fuel taxes - which are separate from the sales
tax. And to make things even more murky, that sales tax is calculated not
just on the cost of the fuel, but on those federal and state fuel taxes as
well...at least it did back when the sales tax was excluded from the pump
price. A label on the pump itself details the various fuel taxes per
gallon.


And fuel taxes tend to remain high, since the rationale is to dedicate
the revenues to construction and maintenance of motorways. In times
of falling revenue and climbing costs there is pressure to use some
portion of the fuel tax money for other purposes, though it is usually
"borrowed" rather than reappropriated.
--
Don Kirkman


sharx35 December 13th, 2008 02:51 AM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 


"Frank Slootweg" wrote in message
b.home.nl...
Mike O'Sullivan wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote:
Mike O'Sullivan wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote:
Hmmm! Before going to the US, I looked at AT&T's and T-Mobile
USA's
websites. I didn't find anything like that on the AT&T site (Don't
get
me started on AT&T sites.), and the T-Mobile USA site specifically
said
that you could get SIM-only only via their website (and because that
required a US ship-to address, that was no option (not counting the
poorer (than AT&T) coverage)).

So now I'm the proud owner of a beautiful, but totally useless
(outside the US), AT&T GoPhone Nokia 2610 phone [1]. It cost me all
of
US$ 19.99 (without tax, mind you (Don't get me started on the
without-tax thingie.)), so I'm not complaining. *And* it includes a
charger
which is 110-240VAC (not 240VAC-only), so I can use it everywhere for
all my Nokia phones (albeit with plug-adapters, which are needed
anyway)!
I use an unlocked Nokia.
and I've never had any trouble in Canada buying a Fido SIM card.

Very interesting, but I wasn't and we weren't talking about Canada,
was I / were we!? :-)


It's North America, but if the information is uninteresting, feel free
to ignore it.


I think the Canucks (sp?) would probably take offense at the "North
America" classification! :-)


I just happen to BE a Canadian who does NOT take offense at the term "North
America".
You surly, thin-skinned, America-phobic European assholes should grow some
thicker
skins to match your thick skulls. If you don't like "North American"
culture, then stay the ****
out of this newsgroup or stay in some limp-wristed Euro group. Or, simply,
FOAD. Anyone with any
brains moved from Europe a LONG time ago.






But seriously, please feel free to post anything you like or/and to
ignore me. After all, this is Usenet, isn't it, so anything goes. I just
thought it was funny that you responded to a posting with subject "...
US ..." and splattered all over with "US[A]" this, "US[A]" that, but gave
a
non-US related response. But then again, we Dutch are easily pleased.



John Kulp December 13th, 2008 02:52 AM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:05:52 +0100, Frank Slootweg
wrote:


4. American petrol/gas stations charge what they bloody well like.

While American petrol/gas prices are still ridiculously low compared
to Oz/Europe, prices vary by upto a *factor* of two within a short
distance, sometimes even a few miles or even less. I realize that
there's hardly any tax part in the price, so it's mostly 'cost', but
the real cost can't vary that much within such a small area.


That's what happens when you have free markets that are not
monopolized. You get a choice.


That the same in Europe/Oz, but the tax component is *so* high that
the differences in end-price are relatively (i.e. percentage-wise)
small. I.e. with taxes upto 70 odd percent, you will only see a
six-seven percent difference max in end-prices.


Well, if you like prices all the same, go to Espanola, NM. Every gas
station is town has the exact same price. Probably all owned by the
same family.


5. Americans don't quite grasp what the 'G' in GSM stands for.

They apparently think it means 'the whole world except us', so they
use a different, incompatible frequency.
Luckily our son has more mobile phones than underpants, so he gave
us - no less than three - 'old' multi-band ones. Problem solved, at
least we *thought* so.


Funny, I have one I bought here that works anywhere in the world.


Sorry, but I don't follow! Didn't I say the exact same thing? I.e. my
(son's) phone also "works anywhere in the world". The fact that I *can*
buy a phone that *doesn't* work anywhere in the world, doesn't mean I
*cannot* buy *another type* of phone which *does*.


Well, I have used Tmobile for years, have a quad band phone from them
and they have a GSM system. I've used it here, in China, in Europe,
etc. All with no problem whatsoever. You just buy a local prepaid
SIM.


6. Americans don't quite grasp that SIMs can be put in *other* phones.

Having a multi-band phone, I went to buy a pre-paid SIM. No such
thing in the US! You can only buy a SIM *and* phone. Duh! I already
*have* a (compatible) phone, *three* of them!


Completely wrong. Just do a search for "pre-paid SIM in the US" and
see what you find.


Can you give a *specific* reference? As I said, I *did* search before
our trip and didn't find anything suitable. BTW, the guy at the Radio
Shack store where I eventually bought the SIM+phone didn't understand
what I meant when I said I wanted a SIM for my phone.


Here's one:
http://www.ustronics.com/USA_SIM_Car...FSAUagodlwubTQ


7. Americans don't grasp that mobile phones are actually ... ummm ...
*phones*.

When I wanted/needed to register the pre-paid AT&T GoPhone mobile
phone which I had to buy, AT&T insisted on having me use *another*
phone to perform the registration procedure. Duh! What about using
the bloody mobile phone itself, like is done in every other
country!?


You just found out why nobody uses ATT here. There are lots of other
you know.


Yes, but my prime concern is network-coverage. I've been bitten too
many times by non-coverage in rural areas or/and no-roaming onto other/
better networks, that I don't go for less-known brands anymore. Before
our trip I checked T-Mobile USA's (GSM) coverage in the areas where we
wanted to go, and it was worse than AT&T's. So I got a AT&T SIM(/phone).

For example in Australia it's Telstra for me, both mobile and 'fixed'
(pre-paid phone/calling card). I don't need to call that often/long, so
price/rates is of less concern, but *when* I need to call, I want to be
*able* to, and not be stuck with "A bloody useless mobile phone"
(courtesy John Williamson).


Well, if you're far enough out in the boonies, you won't get coverage
with anyone. That's the situation where I live in the mountains
outside of Denver. 10 minutes a day, I get a signal. No problem.


[...]

You were just running into New Jersey tourists. Most of us do know
how to drive. Except seniors who will signal a turn for about 10
miles.


Careful! You're *talking* to one of them there "seniors"!


And I'm one too!!


[...]

Hmmm. Must be why I load up on Swedish coffee everytime I go there.


*Don't* get me started on the Swedes!

But seriously (why?), I never heard of Swedish coffee. Probably have
to try it some time.


They have several very good brands, and they subsidize it in Sweden,
since the Swedes drink so much, making it nice and cheap as well. You
have Gevalia, Zoega and store brands among others.


N.B. Of course the Americans also do not have beer, but that fact is
so indisputable, I won't have to get into *that* one.


Not even close. We have tons of microbreweries that produce beers
that are every bit as good as any beer anywhere in the world. And
widely availble in any liquor store as well. Try a Sam Adams
sometime.


The beer-bashing thingie does the trick every time, doesn't it?


I rarely drink it myself, just straigthening out an old myth.


11. Americans don't realize that you don't *have* to 'deep' fry fish.

Why do they insist on deep frying perfectly good fish, even in
places which are directly on the coast, like Morro Bay and
(Fisherman's Warf in) San Francisco? If they don't *like* fish, then
why not just not order/eat it!? No sense in ruining it for others.


Should have gone to Chinatown where they know how to do fish fine.
They're Americans too you know.


We actually *did* go there, but for some strange reason we couldn't
read the signs. I wonder why!

But seriously, San Francisco's Chinatown is *huge*, isn't it? It went
on for blocks and blocks and blocks!


Yup, with great food all around. Next time, try the House of Nanking
for very good food and a crazed owner who will usually insist you
don't know anything about what you're ordering so he will order for
you. Just like a French maitre d'. You won't go wrong if he does.
Then, as I do, at the end of the meal ask him for a hot fudge sundae
and watch him go berserk. Works every time.


[...]

14. Americans actually stop for pedestrians.

This one also takes getting used to, but also is quite nice and
safe. Sometimes you're not even trying or wanting to cross the
street and you see stopped cars all around, patiently waiting for
you to make up your bloody mind.


That's because we don't want them denting our nice cars.


Great one! One to remember!

15. Americans are mostly nice, friendly people.

We mostly met and talked with nice, friendly people. That's of
course because we're so bloody nice ourselves.


We love foreigners. They're so cute!!


You can get us as pets, you know, and we're mostly house-trained.


That's what I tell my wife who is Swedish. She has no sense of humor.


OTOH, I couldn't find a toilet *anywhere*, and these people kept pointing
me to 'restroom's while I wasn't even tired! Stupid idiots! So after
getting home after two weeks, I had to have some *serious* leak (mostly
due to that beer####Bud of yours)!


The Dutch should talk. I have never seen so many different types of
toilets as I have in The Netherlands. You think you're turning on the
light and the toilet flushes.


[...]

To put things in perspective, they were even so nice to give us a
reference point in a staff-member from hell in a Best Western motel
somewhere. To set the tone, she was 'preceded' by two young,
clueless, incompetent and inaudible others. She managed to treat us
like dirt / non-existing for problems which the *motel* caused.


There are another kind?


(Ignoring the invisible smiley,) Yes, our experience was mostly
positive or at least neutral. If you treat them nice/friendly and with
respect, most people will return the favor, and that goes both ways
(service person -- customer).

[...]


Very true.

John Kulp December 13th, 2008 02:54 AM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 05:48:49 GMT, "Sharx35"
wrote:


If anyone has any doubts, we *loved* our trip and would do something
similar again in a flash, so you Seppos aren't all that bad!


Well, I have travelled in the U.S., too. After several dozen trips to the
U.S.,
**MY** bad experiences are a fraction of yours. I suspect it might be due to
your arrogant Eurocentric, obviously chip on the shoulder attitude to U.S.
culture. I am not a U.S. resident nor a U.S. citizen, however I much prefer
to travel in the U.S., compared
to the continent of Europe where the common attitude is that "WE are the
centre of the cultural universe
and the rest of the world are wannabes or boors". :Hell will freeze over
before I
travel to the continent of decay, Europe.


With your sense of humor, they will miss you like they do the bubonic
plague.

sharx35 December 13th, 2008 02:54 AM

Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.
 


"Frank Slootweg" wrote in message
b.home.nl...
[Re-added rec.travel.australia+nz because of the references to Oz (and I
don't believe in splitting up running discussions, unless there is a
very good reason). Of course anyone is free to think/act otherwise.]

Lawrence Akutagawa wrote:
[...]

Just for your edification - in California the sales tax (about 8.25%,
depending on where in the state) is already included in the quoted per
gallon price of gasoline. A number of years ago it was excluded from the
quoted price such that the tax was calculated subsequently as per all
other
taxable purchases. But no longer.


"tax", you pushed yet another one of my buttons (Perhaps that Sharx35
dude was right after all!?).

The tax thingie is rather confusing, needlessly complex, and, AFAICT,
has no advantages for the customer.

In most - but not all - cases, tax was excluded. As you say, the
percentage depends on the location and probably also on the type of
product/service. If you're buying one or a few products, it's hard to
impossible to give the shop attendant the exact amount or to (try to)
get as little change as possible back, until the cash register has
calculated how much you own. That is a nuisance, only takes addtional
time, and I see no advantage (*Is* there any advantage?).

In comparison, in Europe/Oz the sales price always includes the tax
(well, nearly always for Oz). In our country - The Netherlands - it's
even illegal to quote exclusive prices to 'consumers'. At minimal both
exclusive and inclusive have to be quoted, and even that is severely
frowned upon.

And it is always a good idea when driving an unfamiliar car for the first
time to check out all the controls - including the one releasing the gas
tank lid - before driving off. It is rather dicey to have to find the
windshield wiper control while going 70 mph in a sudden downpour at
night.


Yeah, I normally do that, at least when there's some light, which
there (much) wasn't for our first rental.

One time, after driving from SFO airport to somewhere in Silicon
Valley, I found myself in front of the motel, unable to get the key out
of the ignition. Had to push some unkown button, which European cars
didn't/don't have. Quite annoying and embarrasing after a light flight
from Europe.

I didn't check the gas tank lid, but I filled up early and we had the
nice lady in the mirror, hadn't we!?

Hope you had a good time and saw some things different than from where
you
are.


We had and did. If anything was even remotely 'familiar' it was Joshua
Tree NP, Mojave NP and Death Valley NP, and it was only somewhat similar
to the things we love in Australia, so we just had a cheaper - and sadly
enough much shorter - trip, than our 'normal' trips to/in Australia. Our
daughter asked "So the US is your new Australia?". Well it isn't, but
it's beautiful as well and comparisons are equally sillay as unfair.

I trust you were able to range as far north as Bodie and perhaps as
far east as Zion. You next go, try working in Bryce, Capitol Reef,
Arches,
Canyonlands, Dead Horse Point, Goblin Valley, Mesa Verde, Monument
Valley,
etc. You won't regret doing so.


(Without looking them up,) Most of the places you mention don't ring a
bell. To be clear, we visited only California (and a tiny bit (Pahrump)
of Nevada) and only a *part* of CA (see above).


If you don't like the way we do things in North America, STAY THE **** AWAY.
Many of us here
have NO PLANS to spend one bloody cent in ****ing Europe.





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