A question or two from a newbie here
 

Hello all,

This post was partly prompted by a recent observation by a regular
here that the activity in this group has diminished in recent years.
As a newbie to this group (but not Usenet) I would comment that lack
of activity might be a blessing of sorts, considering the piles of
posted rants, flames, and idiocy that can be found in more active
groups. Count your blessings :-).

But now allow me to contribute to this group in a minor way by asking
a few questions about our impending trip to South Africa. Any
responses will be greatly appreciated. You seem like nice people here
and this trip has raised some interesting (serious) questions.

My wife and I were about to take a trip to Cape Town (for two weeks),
and then to Kruger Nat'l Park (for another week) before coming back to
our home in the US. This will be our first trip to South Africa, but
we are veteran travelers (e.g. spent the summer last year in Europe,
have been to the Far East, and spent a year driving through South
America). To keep this particular post short, let me limit this to
just one initial topic: Getting to (and into) South Africa.

The Ticket Dilemma

After doing the usual fight cost comparisons, we bought our RT tickets
through Orbitz -- which uses South African Airways to and from
Atlanta. The price was quite good, but the tickets were *non
refundable*. We have done this before, with good results (and low
prices), but have run into a large problem with this booking. We had
researched the entry requirements to South Africa and had a good grasp
(we thought) of what was required to get into the country as an
American tourist (only a passport). They want to increase tourism.

Then we ran into a caution in one of the books ordered prior to
booking the flight (which arrived afterward) that pointed out that
South African Immigration was tight, and that one of the things they
check for upon entry was an exact match between the name on the ticket
(required to prove exit from the country) and the name on the
passport. (Problem!!)

Unfortunately my given first name is one I have always hated and
therefore have never used -- except when absolutely required
(passports and drivers license). My credit cards carry either my
nickname (a shorted version of my real first name) or simply the
initials of my first and/or middle name. Hence my credit card (to
which this trip was charged, and had to match the booking info)
carried only my initialed first name-- which was carried forward to
the booking and appeared as such on the tickets. This has never been
an issue in past trips, but has become one on this trip.

Soooo, I called South African Airways and asked if this was a problem.
The response was "Oh yes, they won't let you into the country at
Jo'burg unless the name on the return ticket exactly matches the name
on the passport." They said to call Orbitz and have the ticket
reissued with my full legal first name spelled out. I called, but
Orbitz flatly refused! They said they don't ever change the names on a
ticket (they claim they airlines don't allow them to) and that since
the ticket was non-refundable I had no way out of this problem. (Never
mind that a cancellation of this trip would mean the loss of several
thousand dollars. The ticket supervisor's response was "tough.")

So now I have a ticket with a name that doesn't match the name on my
passport. My question here is does anyone here know what might happen
if I proceed with this trip? Will they really ask to SEE the return
ticket? (No one in our past travels ever has.) Would they notice that
the names doesn't exactly match? Would they care? Should I feel like
gambling on they possibility that they might deny me entry and put me
on the next plane back to the USA (leaving my wife alone in South
Africa)? Or should I scrap the whole trip and take the loss?

Any thoughts?

TIA.

Caveat

A question or two from a newbie here
 

They said they don't ever change the names on a
ticket (they claim they airlines don't allow them to) and that since
the ticket was non-refundable I had no way out of this problem. (Never
mind that a cancellation of this trip would mean the loss of several
thousand dollars. The ticket supervisor's response was "tough.")

I am in South Africa, and phoned SAA for you here in SA. Apparently if the
conditions of the ticket state that it is 100% non-refundable, then it looks
like you might have to have the ticket re-issued and pay for a new ticket. I
suggest that you have a careful look at the terms and conditions of that
ticket and re-approach Orbitz. If there is no way you can come right with
the ticket, I would suggest as a last resort, to travel on that current
ticket. Many South Africans know that Americans abbreviate their names (like
N Paul Todd, where his first name is Neil) and you might get away with it.
Another angle of looking at it is if you have travel insurance, your
insurance company might either pay for the re-issue of the ticket, or
alternatively, if you have cancellation insurance, then cancel the booking
in it's entirety and then claim back on the insurance.

I hope you come right, and please keep us posted.

Rodger

A question or two from a newbie here
 

"Rodger" wrote:

I am in South Africa, and phoned SAA for you here in SA. Apparently if the
conditions of the ticket state that it is 100% non-refundable, then it looks
like you might have to have the ticket re-issued and pay for a new ticket. I
suggest that you have a careful look at the terms and conditions of that
ticket and re-approach Orbitz. If there is no way you can come right with
the ticket, I would suggest as a last resort, to travel on that current
ticket. Many South Africans know that Americans abbreviate their names (like
N Paul Todd, where his first name is Neil) and you might get away with it.
Another angle of looking at it is if you have travel insurance, your
insurance company might either pay for the re-issue of the ticket, or
alternatively, if you have cancellation insurance, then cancel the booking
in it's entirety and then claim back on the insurance.


Thanks for the quick response, Rodger, as well as the call to South
African Airways there. That was very nice of you.

Unfortunately, we did not get trip insurance. That is still an option
but to get insurance for a cancellation *for any reason* would cost
about $850 USD. The Orbitz Terms and Conditions was obviously written
by their lawyers to maximize Orbitz profits. Since this was
technically my fault (I gave them the name they used) they are off the
hook. And they have zero interest in customer relations, obviously.

We even explored your suggestion of buying another ticket, but they
are no longer available because the flight is full (actually
overbooked), and the price has doubled for other flights in that time
period. So at this point I'm inclined to go ahead with the trip and
hope for the best.

Not a very comfortable position to be in...

Live and learn.


Caveat

A question or two from a newbie here
 

Hi there,

My suggestion is that you don't cancel the trip.

If they do actually check the ticket and see a discrepancy in your
name, they will also look at other aspects.

If I were you I would carry two things:

1) A letter from your employer (if you have one) stating that you are
an employee in good standing, and that you will be returi=ning to your
place of employment after your three week holiday.

2) A letter certified by your local police station (or better still,
written or confirmed by the South African Embassy nearest your home)
that your given name and your used name are different, but that both
are applicable.

Immigration officials weigh up each case by certain criteria. If
you're a middle-aged businessmantravelling with your wife, and you
have a company and family in Europe then they will see you as far
less of an illegal immigration risk than, for example, a Somali
citizen with only one small piece of luggage, no tourist reservations,
no job etc.

I'm fairly certain that, with the two letters as above, you will be
able to explain your way through immigration without too much
difficulty.

BTW it is the responsibility of the carrier to ensure that you have
all the necessary requirements for entry into the country of
destination. That means that SAA is laible to return you to the US if
immigration refuses you entry.

Are you going to be in Johannesburg at all? If so, please let me know,
and I'll be more than happy to make some suggestions about things to
do/see while you're here.

Regards,

Marc - Joahannesburg

A question or two from a newbie here
 

I have visited South Africa 4 times since 1999, most recently in July 2004
and Aug 2005.

I'm an Australian and I have never been asked for my flight ticket or been
asked any questions. The Immigration stuff has been over in less than a
minute every time.

Maybe they treat Americans differently, but the info you were given by SAA
certainly doesn't match my experiences with entering Sth Africa.

A question or two from a newbie here
 

I couldn't answer from experience previously, but Michael has
confirmed that it is unlikely that they will ask to look at your
ticket.

It's only if you're an illegal immigration risk that they might get
difficult.

Rgds,
Marc

On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 23:51:11 +1100, "Michael Kilpatrick"
wrote:

I have visited South Africa 4 times since 1999, most recently in July 2004
and Aug 2005.

I'm an Australian and I have never been asked for my flight ticket or been
asked any questions. The Immigration stuff has been over in less than a
minute every time.

Maybe they treat Americans differently, but the info you were given by SAA
certainly doesn't match my experiences with entering Sth Africa.

A question or two from a newbie here
 

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 21:12:08 -0700, Caveat wrote:

They said to call Orbitz and have the ticket
reissued with my full legal first name spelled out. I called, but
Orbitz flatly refused! They said they don't ever change the names on a
ticket (they claim they airlines don't allow them to) and that since
the ticket was non-refundable I had no way out of this problem. (Never
mind that a cancellation of this trip would mean the loss of several
thousand dollars. The ticket supervisor's response was "tough.")

This is really hard to believe! In your situation I would
probably try everything I could to make Orbitz change their
ways.

Of course the airlines don't change a non-refundable ticket to a
different name and person, but in your case that's not what you
want them to do. You only want them to correct an oversight.

I'd try hard and work my way up the Orbitz chain of command.
There is always a chance that you find somebody reasonable.

Hans-Georg

--
No mail, please.

A question or two from a newbie here
 

On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 23:51:11 +1100, "Michael Kilpatrick"
wrote:

I have visited South Africa 4 times since 1999, most recently in July 2004
and Aug 2005.
I'm an Australian and I have never been asked for my flight ticket or been
asked any questions. The Immigration stuff has been over in less than a
minute every time.
Maybe they treat Americans differently, but the info you were given by SAA
certainly doesn't match my experiences with entering Sth Africa.

Marc Lurie wrote:
I couldn't answer from experience previously, but Michael has
confirmed that it is unlikely that they will ask to look at your
ticket. It's only if you're an illegal immigration risk that they might get
difficult.


Many thanks both to you, Marc, and to Michael, for the encouraging
posts. I have trouble understanding how the authorities might think
that I might be an illegal immigration risk -- I am old and retired,
and traveling with my wife, and we are both US citizens of Northern
European extraction. But officials with power are known to do
illogical things sometimes. They have their rules and procedures.

We didn't plan to spend any time in Jo'burg (but thanks for the offer
of suggestions for that city) as we have paid flight tickets on to
Cape Town, and confirmed paid reservations at a B&B on False Bay near
Capetown. We also have tickets from Cape Town to Nelspruit (near
Kruger National Park), a paid reservation at a lodge there, with paid
return tickets back Joburg, then to the United States. That doesn't
sound like an illegal immigration risk to me. But what do I know...

Perhaps the airline is being overly cautious here, and your note about
their responsibility to insure that arriving passengers have the
required documentation probably explains that. SAA has actually been
quite reasonable to talk with so far -- unlike the US airlines who
route their calls to India; or Orbitz, which makes incoming customer
service calls slow and difficult (and when you do get through they are
quite nasty and unhelpful, in my experience).

I'll try calling SAA again after the Thanksgiving holiday rush here.
They said that it was the responsibility of the travel agent to
correct a ticket error, but since that isn't possible I will try the
airline again. The letter-from-the-police-department suggestion is
another possibility *if* SAA will let me flow with an abbreviation of
my first name on their ticket. (It just seems odd that this issue
never came up in our past travels through 30 or so countries.)

Again, thanks for the input. On the assumption that I will be admitted
upon arrival in South Africa, that now leaves us with a second
question which I'll pose in a new thread. Nice group you have here.

Regards,


Caveat

A question or two from a newbie here
 

Hans-Georg Michna wrote:

(Never mind that a cancellation of this trip would mean the loss of several
thousand dollars. The ticket supervisor's response was "tough.")

This is really hard to believe!

Yes, I found the matter more than a bit incredulous, too.

In your situation I would probably try everything I could to make Orbitz
change their ways.

Perhaps posting what happened to me here might help?

Of course the airlines don't change a non-refundable ticket to a
different name and person, but in your case that's not what you
want them to do.

You are correct, of course. But the distinction that you make seems to
be beyond their comprehension (probably because they don't want to
recognize it for cost reasons). A name change is a name change.

You only want them to correct an oversight.

Yes, but as they untactfully pointed out, it was MY oversight, for
which I am solely responsible and for which I must suffer the
consequences. No sympathy from these folks. And no help.

I'd try hard and work my way up the Orbitz chain of command.
There is always a chance that you find somebody reasonable.

I was already three layers up their Customer Relations hierarchy when
I got the final "no." When I asked who else I could appeal to, I was
told "no one." Sounds pretty final to me.

A question or two from a newbie here
 

On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 13:03:06 -0700, Caveat wrote:

I was already three layers up their Customer Relations hierarchy when
I got the final "no." When I asked who else I could appeal to, I was
told "no one." Sounds pretty final to me.

Still hard to believe.

Anyway, in your situation I would fly. I can also not imagine
that they actually send you back.

If they do, at least you have an incredible story to tell. (:-)

Hans-Georg

--
No mail, please.