TravelBanter

TravelBanter (http://www.travelbanter.com/index.php)
-   Cruises (http://www.travelbanter.com/forumdisplay.php?f=11)
-   -   Business at Sea (http://www.travelbanter.com/showthread.php?t=83794)

Mark O. Polo February 20th, 2006 09:42 PM

Business at Sea
 
Article notes that business companies are utilizing cruise ships both as
prizes and as conference/education centers:

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/colum...grossman_x.htm
Aloha


Kurt Ullman February 20th, 2006 10:16 PM

Business at Sea
 
In article ,
(Mark O. Polo) wrote:
Article notes that business companies are utilizing cruise ships both as
prizes and as conference/education centers:

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/colum...grossman_x.htm
Aloha

There was a group of about 200 from some company on the
Caribbean Princess when we were on it. Tried to find out if the HR
department was onboard so I could I apply for a job. (G)

--
"Distracting a politician from governing is like distracting a bear from eating your baby."
--PJ O'Rourke

Mark O. Polo February 21st, 2006 12:44 AM

Business at Sea
 
Kurt:

A better job would be to be the cruise companies liaison aboard ship
for the various business groups that frequent them. NCL here has an
advantage in that passengers participating in a bona fide business
meeting/conference/workshop can take advantage of a tax writeoff
inasmuch as NCL America is a legal American cruise entity.

Aloha


Kurt Ullman February 21st, 2006 01:34 AM

Business at Sea
 
In article ,
(Mark O. Polo) wrote:
Kurt:

A better job would be to be the cruise companies liaison aboard ship
for the various business groups that frequent them. NCL here has an
advantage in that passengers participating in a bona fide business
meeting/conference/workshop can take advantage of a tax writeoff
inasmuch as NCL America is a legal American cruise entity.

That was interesting. I had no idea that cruise ships were
treated so much differently from "regular" meetings, etc. I wonder
if the group that was on the CP are gonna get a rude awakening come
tax time...

--
"Distracting a politician from governing is like distracting a bear from eating your baby."
--PJ O'Rourke

Ray Goldenberg February 21st, 2006 02:19 AM

Business at Sea
 
On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 13:44:40 -1000, (Mark O. Polo)
wrote:

the various business groups that frequent them. NCL here has an
advantage in that passengers participating in a bona fide business
meeting/conference/workshop can take advantage of a tax writeoff
inasmuch as NCL America is a legal American cruise entity.


Hi Mark & Kurt,

To expand on this point, there is a specific provision in the US tax
code that prevents business conferences that are held on "foreign
flag" ships from being used as a business deduction. This deduction
is allowed on US flagged ships such as Cruise West, NCL, Delta Queen,
etc. The foreign flag cruise lines would love for this provision to
be changed but have not been successful so far.

Best regards,
Ray
LIGHTHOUSE TRAVEL
800-719-9917 or 805-566-3905
http://www.lighthousetravel.com

Kurt Ullman February 21st, 2006 02:11 PM

Business at Sea
 
In article ,
wrote:
On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 13:44:40 -1000,
(Mark O. Polo)
wrote:

the various business groups that frequent them. NCL here has an
advantage in that passengers participating in a bona fide business
meeting/conference/workshop can take advantage of a tax writeoff
inasmuch as NCL America is a legal American cruise entity.


Hi Mark & Kurt,

To expand on this point, there is a specific provision in the US tax
code that prevents business conferences that are held on "foreign
flag" ships from being used as a business deduction. This deduction
is allowed on US flagged ships such as Cruise West, NCL, Delta Queen,
etc. The foreign flag cruise lines would love for this provision to
be changed but have not been successful so far.


This is about the only real exclusion for foreign tax deductions,
too. While there are restrictions of tax deductions for foreign
meetings, they are so shot full of loopholes as to be just about
non-existant. Unlike the pretty straight forward ban on ships.
I may have to dig around to see the genesis of this. Probably an
interesting story of some Congresscritter deciding someone was
having fun on Uncle Sugar's dime (g).

--
"Distracting a politician from governing is like distracting a bear from eating your baby."
--PJ O'Rourke

Mark O. Polo February 21st, 2006 10:32 PM

Business at Sea
 
Aricle courtesy of Steinbrenner:

Learn More About Land at Sea!!!

Group: rec.travel.cruises Date: Tue, Feb 21, 2006, 2:47pm (HST+5) From:
(steinbrenner)
This article is being posted sigline free.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/19/re.../19cruise.html

February 19, 2006
Venturing Out on the Deep Blue Sea to Learn More About Land
By VIVIAN MARINO
THE annual cruises that Larry and Susan Cerrito take offer a myriad of
on-board activities, from rock climbing and miniature golf to art
auctions and high-stakes bingo.
But the Cerritos, who are from Gilbertsville, Pa., a Philadelphia
suburb, board the ship with their own itinerary. They fill their days
with seminars, workshops and question-and-answer sessions, all about a
subject that seems utterly unlikely on a cruise: buying and selling real
estate.
Instead of tossing back Bahama Mamas while observing hairy-chest
contests or ice-carving demonstrations poolside with the other
passengers, they are ensconced in conference rooms, hearing about
Section 1031 exchanges, landlord techniques and residential rehabbing.
"We don't go to take in the sights; it's more for the networking and the
education we gain," said Mrs. Cerrito, 56, a retired real estate
appraiser who became a full-time real estate investor last year. She and
Mr. Cerrito, a 59-year-old former electrical engineer, are building a
portfolio of residential properties, and they say they are always
looking for new tips and strategies.
The Cerritos, in fact, have been on all nine real estate cruises
sponsored by the National Real Estate Investors Association, an
organization in Covington, Ky., that provides services to investment
clubs like the Philadelphia group to which the Cerittos belong, called
Diversified Real Estate Investor Group, or DIG. Its most recent seven-
day excursion, on Carnival Cruise Lines' Carnival Glory, set sail last
weekend from Port Canaveral, Fla., with planned stops in Key West,
Belize and Cozumel.
The association is neither the first nor the only group to organize
cruises with real estate themes. Similar trips are offered by Portside
Investments of Reston, Va.; MrLandlord.com, a site for rental-property
owners run by the investor and speaker Jeffrey E. Taylor; Louis Brown,
another professional investor and speaker; and WOW! Real Estate Cruise
Seminars, which feature the investor and speaker Walter Sanford. (Many
of the more general investment cruises, like those run by Louis
Rukeyser, sometimes include real estate investing in their curriculums
as well, organizers say.)
While these cruises have been around for awhile, their popularity —
they usually sell out — seems to reflect the growing interest in real
estate investing, especially in light of the housing boom and the stock
market's volatility.
"We get all types of investors; not all are members of an investment
club," said Donald Beck, the cruise coordinator for the National Real
Estate Investors Association, who says the breakdown of participants is
evenly split between novices and veterans.
But, "they're all trying to not work a 9-to-5 job," he added. "With the
knowledge they get from the cruise, they might be able to make enough
money so they can take future leisure cruises."
The oddity of having groups of people who are passionate about real
estate converging miles from terra firma is not lost on Mr. Beck or the
other cruise organizers. Mr. Taylor, a pioneer in the real estate cruise
concept, sees the advantages, though, of holding his seminars at sea. "A
lot of mom-and-pop real estate investors have the tendencies to be
workaholic types and don't take many vacations," he said. "So many
people use this as an opportunity to get away without the usual
distractions and to exchange ideas."
That certainly has been the goal of Mark Pantak, a 48-year-old investor
from Houston who has gone on six cruises with the real estate investors'
association, including the one last week. "When you work as hard as I
do," he said, "you need to get away where there are no phones, no
stress, no deadlines."
For many others, there is also the camaraderie of being around like-
minded people. As Mrs. Cerrito put it, "It's nice to talk to people who
don't think we're nuts."
And, of course, there are the occasional business deals forged on board.
The Cerritos, for example, say they met their future business partners
in a condominium-conversion project in Wildwood Crest, N.J., while on a
cruise two years ago. Twelve rental apartments were converted into one-
and two-bedroom condos selling for $190,000 to $270,000, they said.
Their partners, Paul and Margie Boutcher, who are also from the
Philadelphia area, handled the construction portion, while the Cerritos
arranged for the financing and took on the management duties.
"We actually met him at the bar," Mr. Cerrito said of his first
encounter with Mr. Boutcher, a building contractor.
"He wasn't looking for a partner at the time," Mrs. Cerrito added, "but
then his original partner didn't want to do the deal."
"He came to us a couple months later," Mr. Cerrito said.
While David and Barbara Doyle of Jacksonville, Fla., did not find a
development partner, they did learn of available property, which they
eventually acquired, through contacts made on a recent cruise organized
by Mr. Taylor.
"We were able to do a lot of networking there," said Mr. Doyle, 56, a
former bubble-gum-vending-machine supplier and now a full-time real
estate investor. The couple's last cruise with the MrLandlord.com crew
was on Dec. 11 to 18, to Aruba from San Juan on Royal Caribbean Cruise
Line. It was the 16th real estate cruise organized by Mr. Taylor. This
year's cruise, to the Caribbean from Fort Lauderdale, on the Holland
America Line, is scheduled for Dec. 9 to 16.
Most real estate cruises are arranged so that the participants, who
number from 150 to 500, can share their meals and free time. They rotate
their dining-room seating in order to meet as many other seminar
participants and speakers as possible. The speakers include real estate
professionals, from brokers and lawyers to successful investors and the
occasional real estate "guru."
The formats for most of the seminars are similar. The formal sessions
take place only while the ship is at sea — three to four days is
standard — and each session typically runs around 90 minutes, with
short breaks in between and longer breaks for meals.
"We don't take attendance, but most people will attend all the sessions,
so that they get their money's worth," Mr. Beck said. "A lot of people
do not come home with tans."
It's not uncommon, too, for impromptu gatherings to spring up among the
attendees in the evening hours, in individual cabins and lounges or even
during on-shore excursions. Informal access to the guest speakers
outside the scheduled seminar hours is fairly liberal, as well.
Mr. Sanford, who has been a guest speaker on the WOW Real Estate Cruise
Seminars for the last eight years, says he often receives requests for
private consultations — "which I'm more than happy to do" —
sometimes even while he's relaxing by the pool with his wife, Lisa, and
their young daughters, Abigail and Meredith.
He and other speakers will often sell products and services during the
cruises, from books to boot camps, though they and the organizers insist
that the speakers' wares are not promoted aggressively. "I think all of
us are really sensitive to those who spend all the education time
selling," Mr. Sanford said. "I myself spoke about my system for less
than five minutes on the first day and never mentioned it again."
The seminars at sea can provide benefits beyond kinship and investing
lessons. Passengers may qualify for group discounts from regular cabin
rates, with prices typically less than $5,000 a couple. On Carnival, for
example, the savings are as much as $100 a person, according to Cherie
Weinstein, vice president of group sales and administration. Seminar
organizers, though, say the cruises aren't big moneymakers.
Whatever savings are derived from bulk booking are used to offset
marketing costs, said Mr. Brown, whose next cruise, to Alaska on Royal
Caribbean's Radiance of the Seas, is scheduled for Aug. 10 to 19, with
prices starting at $1,880 a person. "It's a loss leader for us; our
profits come from land-based events," he said.
Mr. Taylor agreed. "We want to make the price as close to what they
would pay had they not signed up for the conference," he said, noting
that prices last December started at around $1,000 a person, which
included the cost of the cabin and meals, as well as the seminars.
Participants may be able to deduct part of the cost of some cruises on
their income tax returns, as they do for conventions and seminars held
on land, though there are many restrictions imposed by the Internal
Revenue Service.
"Your full-time occupation should relate to real estate" to qualify for
such a deduction, said Larry M. Elkin, president of the Palisades Hudson
Financial Group in Scarsdale, N.Y. "The mere fact that you own a rental
home probably doesn't rise to the level of a trade or business."
According to I.R.S. Publication 463, each taxpayer can deduct up to
$2,000 of investment cruise expenses in a calendar year, but only if the
cruise seminar relates directly to his or her trade or business.
Deductions are available only for cruise ships that visit United States
ports and sail under an American flag. Those who think they may qualify
for a deduction may want to consult a tax professional beforehand.
For Elaine Kostecki, 37, a nurse from Milwaukee, and her husband, John,
39, a deduction was nice, but what they retained from their seven real
estate cruises was knowledge relevant to their real estate investment
business. "I picked up some good landlording tips," she said. "I learned
a lot about tenant screening, and about collecting more than one month's
security deposit as a means to protect you. I learned new strategies for
finding property, and how to do creative deals."
Indeed, Mr. Beck agreed, many participants at least "go home with a
concept."
"They might not understand it 100 percent, but at least they learn the
concept," he said.
Occasionally, too, they may go home with even more than that. "I know of
at least two couples who came as singles," he added, "and now, I
believe, they're married."


Aloha


Charles February 22nd, 2006 02:10 AM

Business at Sea
 
In article , Mark
O. Polo wrote:

Aricle courtesy of Steinbrenner:


That was a copyrighted article. Posting it is just plain wrong and
illegal. Steinbrenner is hiding behind an anonymizer services so as not
to have to worry about the consequennses. You are not so you might want
to be more carefull.

--
Charles

Mark O. Polo February 22nd, 2006 02:29 AM

Business at Sea
 
Charles:

Talk to Steinbrenner about your misgivings.

Aloha


steinbrenner February 22nd, 2006 03:15 AM

Business at Sea
 
Charles wrote:

That was a copyrighted article. Posting it is just plain wrong and
illegal. Steinbrenner is hiding behind an anonymizer services so as
not to have to worry about the consequennses. You are not so you
might want to be more carefull.

--
Charles



The NY Times legal department is more concerned with TA's adding
sigline/advertisements to copyrighted editorial material. They do not
appreciate TA's who are too cheap to buy a newspaper ad using
copyrighted material for free to advertise the sale of cruises and
other travel services.

Hi Everyone,

I am too cheap to pay for advertising in a newspaper so here is my ad
along with an article from the NY Times!


BTW, did the Wall Street Journal ever pay you for the RTC post of yours
they printed in the newspaper?





All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:23 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
TravelBanter.com