Chirac warns of 'African flood'
 

B Vaughan wrote:
On 14 Jul 2006 12:01:22 -0700, "Hooverphonic"
wrote:

I was under the impression the population of Africa was declining (Bob
Geldof), but JC thinks its increasing. Who is correct ??

You must have misunderstood. The population of Africa is certainly not
declining. The birth rate is declining, but it's still well above
replacement level. Maybe you heard birth rate and thought population?


You must have misunderstood.
always possible :)

but if I look at what is on the news about Africa its always doom and
gloom from a people / wildlife / environment perspective.

if the population is going up there will only be less to go round and
they will remain in poverty, with wildlife and environment suffering
the consequences.

Chirac warns of 'African flood'
 

On 15/07/06 9:59, in article
, "Hooverphonic"
wrote:

if the population is going up there will only be less to go round and
they will remain in poverty, with wildlife and environment suffering
the consequences.



The problem is world wide. The industrial world is currently
over exploiting the world's fisheries.

This was recently in the news with regard to tuna fishing in
the eastern Atlantic and Mediterranean.

Ecotourism is on the rise in Africa, it remains to be seen
if it works but nobody is trying to control pirate fishing.
One is almost tempted to equip a group of ecoterrorists
with submarines and sent them out to sink large fishing
boats.


*****

llegal fishing threatens survival of Europe's tuna

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - Illegal fishing has devastated Europe's stocks of the
highly prized bluefin tuna and threatens the species' survival in the
eastern Atlantic and Mediterranean, environmental campaign group WWF said on
Wednesday.

International quotas that aim to keep fish stocks viable were exceeded in
both 2004 and 2005 for bluefin tuna, it said.

"Fleets from the EU -- mainly France -- Libya and Turkey are the main
offenders," WWF said in a report. "These countries are greatly exceeding
their fishing quotas and deliberately failing to report much of their
massive catches."

Demand for bluefin tuna, one of the fastest fish in the sea, is always high
since it is particularly popular in sushi and sashimi dishes. Unlike most
tunas, bluefin grow slowly and mature late, making them more vulnerable to
intensive trawling.

"Unreported tuna catches are increasingly slaughtered and processed at sea
before being shipped out on board enormous vessels destined for the
lucrative Japanese market," WWF said.

WWF estimated that around 44,900 metric tons of bluefin tuna were caught in
2004, well beyond the 32,000-metric ton quota allowed by the International
Commission for the Conservation of Atlantic Tunas (ICCAT). The catch was
even higher in 2005, it said.

The group demanded that trawling for the fish should stop immediately in
both Mediterranean and eastern Atlantic waters and said it would lobby EU
Fisheries Commissioner Joe Borg for the 25-nation European Union for make
sure this happened.

Environmental groups, particularly WWF, have long complained that bluefin
tuna fishing is out of control in Europe and repeatedly point to the
Mediterranean as the worst problem area.

With Atlantic fish numbers at dangerously low levels, fleets were moving to
Mediterranean waters to catch the fish there too, the report's author
Roberto Mielgo Bregazzi said.

"In the race to catch shrinking tuna stocks, industrial fleets are
switching from traditional grounds to the last breeding grounds in the
eastern Mediterranean and Libyan waters," he said in a statement.

Greenpeace warned in a recent report that bluefin tuna was nearing
commercial and ecological extinction in the Mediterranean.

Chirac warns of 'African flood'
 

Hooverphonic writes:

if the population is going up there will only be less to go round and
they will remain in poverty, with wildlife and environment suffering
the consequences.

Correct. That's the problem with overpopulation anywhere (including
on the planet as a whole).

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Chirac warns of 'African flood'
 

On 15 Jul 2006 00:59:51 -0700, Hooverphonic wrote:

but if I look at what is on the news about Africa its always doom and
gloom from a people / wildlife / environment perspective.

That's unrealistic. In Kenya, to give just one example, tourism
is alive and well. Lodges are expanding all over the place. This
is probably good for the wildlife.

if the population is going up there will only be less to go round and
they will remain in poverty, with wildlife and environment suffering
the consequences.

In the very long run you will be right, but in the medium term
this is not necessarily so. The point is that productivity can
rise along with the population. In other words, quality economic
growth can improve the economic situation even with moderate
population growth.

I think that new wealth cannot come from highly inefficient
agriculture on poor soils. Only industrialization can take the
economy forward. This is already happening at a large scale in
Kenya, where you now have a sizable middle class in the cities,
and most of the newly well-off don't get their wealth from
agriculture at all---people work in factories and offices.

Hans-Georg

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Chirac warns of 'African flood'
 

On 15 Jul 2006 00:59:51 -0700, "Hooverphonic"
wrote:

if the population is going up there will only be less to go round

Rubbish, whilst there is not an infinite amount of resources, there is
certainly more than enough for much larger population than the earth
has now.

Jim.

Chirac warns of 'African flood'
 

Jim Ley wrote:
On 15 Jul 2006 00:59:51 -0700, "Hooverphonic"
wrote:

if the population is going up there will only be less to go round

Rubbish, whilst there is not an infinite amount of resources, there is
certainly more than enough for much larger population than the earth
has now.

Jim.

reducing the population would resolve all the other worldly problems
that we face.

Chirac warns of 'African flood'
 

On 15 Jul 2006 04:57:19 -0700, "Hooverphonic"
wrote:


Jim Ley wrote:
On 15 Jul 2006 00:59:51 -0700, "Hooverphonic"
wrote:

if the population is going up there will only be less to go round

Rubbish, whilst there is not an infinite amount of resources, there is
certainly more than enough for much larger population than the earth
has now.

reducing the population would resolve all the other worldly problems
that we face.

No it wouldn't, killing all pensioners would lead to a knowledge
deficit, and lack of cheap support for workers. Killing a large
proportion of the middle aged, would lead to no-one to do the work to
keep everyone else alive, and killing all the children (or stopping
more children being born) would do nothing to provide for those middle
group of people when they grew old.

I suppose you could selectively kill people, based on some sort of
testing, or maybe ethnic origin to reduce the impact, but I can hardly
see that as a way to resolve problems.

Jim.

Chirac warns of 'African flood'
 

Jim Ley wrote:
On 15 Jul 2006 04:57:19 -0700, "Hooverphonic"
wrote:


Jim Ley wrote:
On 15 Jul 2006 00:59:51 -0700, "Hooverphonic"
wrote:

if the population is going up there will only be less to go round

Rubbish, whilst there is not an infinite amount of resources, there is
certainly more than enough for much larger population than the earth
has now.

reducing the population would resolve all the other worldly problems
that we face.

No it wouldn't, killing all pensioners would lead to a knowledge
deficit, and lack of cheap support for workers. Killing a large
proportion of the middle aged, would lead to no-one to do the work to
keep everyone else alive, and killing all the children (or stopping
more children being born) would do nothing to provide for those middle
group of people when they grew old.

I suppose you could selectively kill people, based on some sort of
testing, or maybe ethnic origin to reduce the impact, but I can hardly
see that as a way to resolve problems.

I was thinking, tackle the problem at source, i.e. have less kids.

Chirac warns of 'African flood'
 

Jim Ley writes:

Rubbish, whilst there is not an infinite amount of resources, there is
certainly more than enough for much larger population than the earth
has now.

How much, exactly, and with what standard of living?

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Chirac warns of 'African flood'
 

Hooverphonic writes:

reducing the population would resolve all the other worldly problems
that we face.

Perhaps not all, but certainly a very large number of them.

--
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