Pan wrote:

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 18:28:34 GMT, "Gregory Morrow"
wrote:


mag3 wrote:

Islam Yes, one does see the Islamic orientation of this country but
it's
not "in your face" at all.
in There is very little Arabic script as the national language is
"Bahasa
Malaysia" (which uses
Malays. Romanized alphabet) and not Arabic.


Despite the nice facade you saw the fact that it is a mainly Islamic
country
should be a red flag to you.

I disagree. Have you ever been there?


No.


Wonderful people.



That's on a personal level. I am talking about a societal level.


What is the legal status of the women you saw,
their station in life?

Malay women, especially in East Coast states ruled now or until
recently by PAS, have much higher status than they did in the 1970s.
Lots of them own their own businesses. Malaysia is not Saudi Arabia.
Malay women are frequently seen driving cars and motorcycles by
themselves and sell to both men and women.


Wow! Such progress!


Did you see any Jews?

There never was a big local Jewish community. There used to be one
congregation in Penang, and already in the 70s, there were too few of
them to have services except when supplemented by Jewish tourists and
businessmen for the High Holy Days. It's true that the word "Jew" has
often been used as an insult in Malaysian political discourse, but my
impression is that the departure of Malaysian Jews had much more to do
with economics than anything else. I don't believe the very small
Jewish community was persecuted.

If my experience last summer is anything to judge by, Jewish tourists
are welcome in Malaysia, but you probably wouldn't recognize them
because they wouldn't be Orthodox Jews wearing kipot. Plenty of halal
but no certified kosher food is to be found in Malaysia.

Do gays have a place in
Malaysian society?

Yes, if they're quiet about it. That was true in various Western
countries a few decades ago.

Places like Dubai and Kuala Lumpur might put on a very
tempting face but anyone who values human rights surely would not choose
to
live there permanently, especially if you are, say, a woman or Jewish or
homosexual.

Living there permanently - is that an issue in this thread? I sure as
heck wouldn't want to live in Beijing permanently but had a wonderful
time visiting there for 9 days this August.

Frankly I would not dig being treated like chattel or a pariah
or being jailed or worse for my sexual orientation.

Women are _NOT_ chattel in Malaysia and do have rights! But yes, if
you're gay, you probably don't want to move to Malaysia.

It's like visiting Berlin during the 1936 Olympics and saying "Wow!
These
Germans have got a good thing going! They are friendly and nice and so
well - organised...Berlin is really beautiful and modern and we really
did
not see any of that overt anti - semitism or anything political like
that..must just be rumours!.".
[snip]

Malaysia in 2004 is very far from Nazi Germany!


*Any* nation that follows the rules of Islam is a danger or a potential
danger to world stability.. Islam has proven to be a far greater menace to
the world than National Socialism ever was.

--
Best
Greg