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Old January 22nd, 2004, 01:12 AM
Tchiowa
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Default How US helped Iraq build deadly arsenal

john wrote in message . ..
On 20 Jan 2004 17:18:17 -0800, (Tchiowa) wrote:

"DN" wrote in message ...
"Tchiowa" wrote in message
om...
"DN" wrote in message
news:jr1Pb.19421$Wa.7578@news-

SNIP

I note with interest that even though the original question asked was
about what was wrong with Socialism, you two have spent a lot of time
attacking Capitalism but not one word defending Socialism.
Particularly not with specific examples of successes.

Wrong again. That's expected now from "Tchiowa". All that has been asked of
you dear boy (girl?) thus far, is to share with us, the secrets known to you
about the various ism's, versus what is known by history and the players
over centuries past. You were even given a few reminders to work with, which
you failed to understand or deliberately neglected to comment on.


Why do you want to dwell on some particular twist of history? The fact
is that Socialism is a failure. Look around you. TODAY!!! You don't
need to say "Well, in 1302 blah did blah to blah". Look around you at
the world right now.

Now it is one thing to be a rusted on Capitalist or Socialist, but quite
another thing to understand its birthright and evolution. It is I fear, at
this juncture that we part company.


Who cares about the birthright and evolution? I care about the
results. And the world here and now that has proven Socialism fails
and Capitalism succeeds.

Why are you so afraid to address the world of today? Why do you dwell
on centuries old past? Are you French?

Without understanding, birthright and evolution of these systems, beliefs
are generally based on emotion and/or prejudice.


No. They are based on reality. Dwelling on such things as you are is a
method of avoiding unpleasant realities of today that disprove what to
you seems a pretty cherished (but discredited) belief.

Examples for instance being
what Dad said, what the telly shows purporting to be factual news says,


Yeah, you're right. Don't want to look at the news when you can listen
to a professor spout stories of centuries past.

some
jerks broadcasting live each day on radio talkback programmes with obvious
political agenda's,


You're saying *you* don't have an obvious political agenda?

some teaching core subjects at Uni that need attention
from one of these sides in Government and common propaganda slaves. The list
is, as I am sure everyone else but "Tchiowa" would agree, is actually
endless, with out scholarship. And that sport is the nub of the matter.


Tell me something. How many Communist/Socialist or former
Communist/Socialist countries have you lived in? Or spent significant
time in? Have you lived or worked in any of the SSRs? China? Angola?
Have you talked to people whose lives have been destroyed by Socialism
and seen their desparate desire to improve life for themselves and
their families dashed by the bureaucratic nightmare that inevitably
arises? Or is all of your knowledge based on some Berkeley professors
views as he desparately tries to avoid the 21st century (or even the
20th, for that matter)?

Close your book. Forget your theory. Join the world. The world of
reality. Look around you. Name the country where Socialism has
succeeded? I'll name you dozens where Capitalism has succeeded. Dozens
more where it is currently improving lives. And dozens where Socialism
has destroyed people's lives.


Alright, start off by naming a dozen where Capitalism has succeeded.

Also, name a dozen where it is currently improving lives.(This ought
to be GOOD)


The US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, England, Scotland, Ireland,
Germany, Spain, Italy, Netherlands, Belgium.

That's a dozen that fill both criteria. Didn't even have to get to
Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, etc.

Also name a dozen where Socialism has destroyed people's lives.


Russia, China, Cuba, Angola, Kazakhstan, Hungary, Romania, Latvia,
Bulgaria, North Korea, Poland, Ukraine, Burma, Tajik....

Ooops. That's more than a dozen. All too easy.

Now let's make of list of countries that are converting to Capitalism
and the people are seeing an enormous benefit (they are better off now
than they were before): China, Indonesia, Thailand, Angola for
starters.

How about countries embracing Socialism and watching their economies
get killed and people hurt? Like France?

OK. Your turn. What Socialist countries have made their citizens lives
better? Your list, please?