On 17 Aug 2006 07:46:34 -0700, "Tchiowa"
wrote:


Hatunen wrote:
On 16 Aug 2006 17:52:39 -0700, "Tchiowa"
wrote:


Hatunen wrote:
On 15 Aug 2006 22:45:11 -0700, "Tchiowa"
wrote:


Europeans possession of passports is a result of hatred and bigotry
that has kept the continent at war with itself for centuries. Not
something to be proud of.

and Europeans can travel between most countries without going through
any kind of passport control.

These days, yes. But that's a recent development. The reason a lot of
Euros have passports was because that wasn't the case until recently.

Try to keep up.

As I pointed out elsewhere, there were no passports until after
WW1. The fact that they are no longer needed for much
intra-European travel means that they really only served their
purpose for about 80 years out of two millenia of European
history. You make a pretty weak case with the passport business,
espcially since you don't explain *why* passports are an
indication of bigotry and hatred.

Passports are not an indication of bigotry and hatred. I never said
that.

I could swear it was you who said:

"Europeans possession of passports is a result of hatred and
bigotry that has kept the continent at war with itself for
centuries."

I think I did. But, as I pointed out repeatedly, it's not the passport,
it's the need for the passport. It's the international boundaries.

OK.

A. Passports are not an indications of bigotry and hatred.

B. Europeans possession of passports is a result of hatred and
bigotry

So you claim that those two statements are not contradictory?


Ever hear of "root cause analysis"? You should pick up a book.

The need to have a passport in order to travel more than a couple of
hours in any direction in Europe is a result of the fact that Europe is
chopped up into little political entities.

OK.

And that is a result of
1,000 years or more of bigotry and hatred and war.

Ah, see, you're waffling now; that's not what you've said. You've
said it was a result of bigotry and hatred, not war.

What do you think caused the war? Stale wine?

Well, now. That seems to be the point we largely disagree on,
doesn't it? I say that some wars may have resulted from bigotry
and/or hatred but many wars have not; you say all wars have
resulted from bigotry and hatred.

************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *