"Marior" wrote in message
news:dhkLd.227192$6l.42667@pd7tw2no...

Agreed actually. I'm spoiled with places I can go whenever I want for
seclusion. Its definitely a Canada perk. That said Banff townsite drives
me
batty. I can only be in certain places for so many hours then....

I like Banff in the off-season. But in the peak of the summer it gets as
crowded as any other tourist hot spot.

Absolutely. I wonder whether we all all make more allowances for risk with
activities we each REALLY enjoy. Your love of diving likely makes you
consider the quality of dive far before the local politics, stability of
the
country, risk etc. I've modified some of my biking locales but the risk
is
still definite.

Not really. As divers, we learn how to properly gauge risk. Just because a
murder rate of .000012 is 4 times higher than a murder rate of .000003, it's
still not very likely that I'll be murdered. And many of the statistics can
be "avoided" by taking simple precautions.

Mexico is a big country. There are plenty of places within Mexico that
are
much safer than Waikiki.

Thats really still stretching

Hardly.

Ah but you don't know where I would want to go if I went to Mexico. Mexico
City is one.

You can't compare Waikiki with Mexico City. One is a practically walled-in
security-guarded tourist island, the other is the largest city in the world.

Compare Waikiki with a popular Mexican tourist beach if you want to be fair.
But even Honolulu in general can't compare to Mexico City.

But you said "Mexico" and my argument was that much of Mexico is as safe as
Hawaii. Since my argument is that Mexico City skews the crime statistics,
you simply can't go there. Try again.

I covered that in my last post in reference to making it out of Columbia.
Where I differ from you is I still factor the Mexico level as something to
pay close attention to. You seem to dismiss it because its highly
unlikely.
That doesn't dimiss the 100k's of murders that have occurred there.

But if you take out the Sinaloa corridor (easy to avoid if you don't like
the desert), the border zone (easy to avoid if you don't like border zones),
and Mexico City (easy to avoid as long as you stay in the airport), you
leave a remainder filled with white sand beaches, lush jungles, and mountain
forests waiting to be explored. Bicycling isn't going to be as comfortable
since the roads will be more potholed, when there are roads, and hiking
won't allow you the comfort of a helicopter airlift 15 minutes away
accessible by your cell phone, but the potential area left over after
avoiding the crime spots which skew the statistics is still thousands (or at
least hundreds?) of times the size of Hawaii.

Hope you don't mind if I don't take you at face value on that as you've
been
about as wrong as is possible on many points in the thread thus far. But
anyhow, Larcenys not my 1st concern as none of these robber types attempts
to jack me personally as theres always an easier target just headed down
the
road. If it ever did happen the 50 bucks can be readily replaced, my life
can't, homicides all I really worry about.

Crime is all about easier targets. Don't make yourself an easy target in
Hawaii and don't make yourself an easy target in Mexico. It's usually as
simple as that.

1st of all I would rather take my vacation in Saskatoon than go to Ixtapa
or
Manzanillo or Cancun. Why does anybody go to such contrived 3rd world
resorts.

What's Waikiki Beach? That's what you're comparing it to. Why does anybody
go to such contrived 1st world resorts? That's the point of this whole
debate, Mr. All-Inclusive.

I can't stand the idea of going to somewhere that was a pristine
beach just recently that was destroyed just to service the go nowhere, see
nothing, all inclusive worshippers.

What do you think Waikiki looked like in the 'old days'? Yet you gush over
the place.

Why leave home just to empower the
Tourism industry involved in the wrecking of yet another part of the
world?

It's hardly up to me to determine how a developing country wants to make
money from rich first-worlders like you. Mexico has thousands of miles of
undisturbed beaches. Why not carve up a few to make some cash that can
boost the economy and provide jobs and infrastructure for their citizens?
It's not like we're a great role model. Southern California beaches are
relatively much more developed than Mexico's and our water quality is often
pitiful.

If i'm going to a resort I'd prefer something like maybe Acapulco or
Puerto
Vallarta that wasn't wrecked in my life time where I can actually access
some history, some local flavor, some towns.

Oh, I see. Waikiki wasn't wrecked in your lifetime so it's OK to visit now.

Your grandchildren will be able to enjoy Cancun and Ixtapa, then?

The difference is that PV and Acapulco have been wrecked for so long that
they've become cities, meccas for pollution and crime. The newer resorts
are still almost pristine.

FWIW one of my friends went to
Manzanillo just 5 years ago and not a few miles outside of Manzanilllo
they
were stopped at a highly unauthorized checkpoint that was set up by a drug
cartel that was apparently looking to murder the 1st rivals that came
along
and were amusing themselves in the meanwhile stopping everybody and taking
their money at gunpoint. My friend complained to local officials who did
nothing to confront the bandits who were stationed there for two full
days.
My friend investigated and found that everybody locally knew what was
going
on as it had happened chronically and that the authorities didn't DARE
intervene. After experiences the 1st day of the *checkpoint* none of the
tourists dared to leave town and my friends spent an entire week in
Manzanillo with nothing to do, nowhere to go. Stuck in nowhere Manzanillo.
Fun holiday.

Sounds fine to me. I've spent weeks at a time on 100' boats with nothing to
do, nowhere to go. I've done the same at little resorts in very
out-of-the-way places. Perhaps your friends get bored easily?

archeological sites. We had accomodation picked, arrangements made, and
backed out. Further to the Manzanillo story someone else I knew had gone
to
the same sites we were going to go to and reported that they HAD to go on
tours because the carjackings, robberies on the roads leading to the sites
were so prolific that the tour buses had an armed security person on
board.
Again not my idea of a great fun time for family.

Keep them locked up safe inside the walls of the all-inclusive and shelter
them from the real world. That's much better for them. Like I said, you
should try Disneyland. You'd love it.

According to some info that's of an adult nature that I won't link too its
50-50 street/brothel right now. As long as they don't do it right on the
street or in public its allowed and streetwalking is flourishing in
Mexico.

Your information from your porno sites and your all-inclusive friends
doesn't impress me. I've been there. Recently.

I spent a week in the Los Cabos area a few months ago, covering Cabo San
Lucas, San Jose del Cabo, and up the coast to Cabo Pulmo, and I can't say
that I saw a single streetwalker there. Two months prior to that, I spent a
week based in Cancun, with side trips to Playa del Carmen, Puerto Moreles,
and Cozumel, and I can't say that I saw I single streetwalker there.
Another five months before that I spent a weekend in Ensenada, driving
across the border at Tijuana, and I can't say that I saw a single
streetwalker there either.

So since you're trying to educate me about somewhere you've never been,
somewhere where I visit several times a year, any argument you make just
sounds silly.

sure looks like a problem existed but we noted it mainly in one area when
we
were down there and we were not effected at all. Its not clear how it
really effects me anyhow. The only risk is to Johns and hookers really.

Do you want your family to be walking nearby when one pimp is shooting at
another? I can't believe you have so little disregard for your family's
welfare.

One of the things that freaked me is knowing that hawaii has some of the
most rapidly eroding zones on earth, . that ol volcanic rock is always
moving dammit! I hear ya!

Yeah, whatever, but wet sand erodes even faster and that's what the hillside
with the little trail to the Red Sand Beach is made of.

Yeah, I think I heard about that one. I had an experince with a landlside
on the Road to Hana that was unsettling. Whole road was blocked but they
were able to clear just enough to squeeze and I do mean squeeze the rent a
car through or spend the night right around there.... our choice.

A few feet more and you'd be part of the scenery. But that's an acceptable
risk to you. Whatever.

I get your point everything has risks but theres something specifically
about murder that irks me. Strange that. On the other hand If a meteorite
falls on my head as I'm writing this cest la...............

Danger of death is danger of death regardless of who's pulling the trigger,
a murderer or nature. And irrational fear is still irrational fear.