What is the best country to visit in Europe?

In article ,
Miguel Cruz wrote:

Aah. So not a fan of good food, a good climate, good wine, the right way to
live, lovely countryside and their Government being right about the Iraq
war, eh?

You're thinking of Indonesia. France has horrible cloying mayonnaisey food
and freezing cold weather most of the time.

Freezing cold? Not in the summer.

Vitaly Shmatikov wrote:

Life is never too short for good skiing

Sure, I don't care much for French food, French government, or the whole
French way of living, yet France has some of the world's best skiing,

Hm. I'm out of my skin-deep depth now- I'm more of a langlaufer anyway.

and it so happens that I have a ton of friends in France, so yeah,
I go for a week or two of skiing there every couple of years or so.
If you find this ironic, you have a strange sense of irony.

It _is_ irony. Jeez, look up a dictionary- don't play into the
stereotype!

Do you think that people go skiing in Utah because they approve of
the Mormon Church, are excited about Utan cuisine and are big fans of
watery-by-law Utah beer?

If they bitched on usenet about it frequently, sure, I'd think they HAD
A PROBLEM. Thing is, while criticism is great, I'm hard pressed to think
of a thread where you said you _liked_ something, not just in France,
but in Europe. It begs the question....

Other than the skiing- and let's face it, that stone was pretty well
squeezed.

David

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

Vitaly Shmatikov wrote:

In article ,
devil wrote:

Too bad none of this applies to France. Well, I suppose French
countryside has a couple of nice spots here and there, but you are
surely joking about the rest.

What will it take to convince you that they were right on the Iraq lunacy?

What will it take to convince you that Shrub & Co did a Good Thing (TM)
in ridding Iraq of Saddam?

I was initially pro-war. I really did believe the hype (now, convincly
disproved) that Iraq had weapons of mass distr^h^h destruction. I knew
the war would be bloody, but I felt- hey, in the long term, it would all
be OK. Now, I have quite a contrary view. I feel lied to, conned, by my
own (UK) government. In addition, more and more, I'm coming to the view
that Bush is a frighteningly out of control powermonger. I think Iraq is
a mess- most of the allies (read- US) have not properly thought through
the aftermath. At the same time, the wanton barbarism exhibited by
_some_ Iraqis (and their zealout non-Iraqi muslim 'brothers') is
sickening. Maybe some people don't really deserve 'saving?' Frankly, I'm
now of the view that the allied forces should now withdraw, and let Iraq
fall to bits. Let the Iraqis fight for their country- isn't that what
the pre-war anti-war people were suggesting anyway? Anyone who thinks
the UN could intervene should take a reality check. Or, the decent
Iraqis should stand up and make a decent country of themselves. I'm not
optimistic, and I'd dearly love to be wrong about this.

Basically, I'm unconvinced that life for Iraqis _under_ Saddam Hussein
is any worse than life after his deposal. Lots of people are being
killed. If we saw the real mutilation of innocents on TV, the allied
forces would withdraw in an eyeblink.

David

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

In article 1gbye4e.1opdomn1kderpuN%this_address_is_for_spam@ yahoo.co.uk,
David Horne wrote:

Sure, I don't care much for French food, French government, or the whole
French way of living, yet France has some of the world's best skiing,

Hm. I'm out of my skin-deep depth now- I'm more of a langlaufer anyway.

Trust me, it's true Massive (make it MASSIVE) ski areas, huge
variety of terrain, some serious off-piste skiing, and used to be a
great bargain in the days of the 90-cent euro. The season is relatively
short, though, and snow can be inconsistent (global warming, they say),
but I am told this year is exceptionally good.

and it so happens that I have a ton of friends in France, so yeah,
I go for a week or two of skiing there every couple of years or so.
If you find this ironic, you have a strange sense of irony.

It _is_ irony. Jeez, look up a dictionary- don't play into the
stereotype!

Yeah, you are right, I HAVE A PROBLEM. I am a crypto-Francophile.
Love France and all things French, but too embarrassed to admit it.
I even refuse to admit the irony of skiing in a country whose native
cuisine I don't find appealing.

Do you think that people go skiing in Utah because they approve of
the Mormon Church, are excited about Utan cuisine and are big fans of
watery-by-law Utah beer?

If they bitched on usenet about it frequently, sure, I'd think they HAD
A PROBLEM. Thing is, while criticism is great, I'm hard pressed to think
of a thread where you said you _liked_ something, not just in France,
but in Europe. It begs the question....

Guess what? I _don't_ like anything in Europe

Well, that's an exaggeration. I suppose I do like a few things,
but overall I find Europe a fairly insular and close-minded place,
and France especially so. This is reflected in everything: social
attitudes, lifestyles, travel habits, food, what have you. For a real
vacation, I'd much rather trek through a random African country than
drag myself from one cathedral to another.

(Vitaly Shmatikov) wrote:

If you know of any good French wine under $30 (preferably something
that would be available in the US), please share the wisdom, I promise
I'll give it a try.

The only good French wines I know cost far less than $30 (I take it we
are dealing in price per bottle, not per case).

It's wonderful having a palate which has no pretensions.

Tomorrow: Sautéed scallops; Poached Brill with Beurre Blanc;
Roquefort.

Washed down with Pouilly Fuissé. perhaps some vintage port with the
roquefort.

--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED

Padraig Breathnach wrote:

Tomorrow: Sautéed scallops;

Though obviously not _French_, it's hard to resist adding garlic, fresh
coriander (cilatro) and a smidge of cayenne pepper to that.

Poached Brill with Beurre Blanc;
Roquefort.

Washed down with Pouilly Fuissé. perhaps some vintage port with the
roquefort.

If it's a nice roquefort, and assuming you enjoyed the wine, I think
almost any port would do. Well, it would for me.

David

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

In article 1gbyes9.ileutc912lgaN%this_address_is_for_spam@ya hoo.co.uk,
David Horne wrote:

I was initially pro-war. I really did believe the hype (now, convincly
disproved) that Iraq had weapons of mass distr^h^h destruction. I knew
the war would be bloody, but I felt- hey, in the long term, it would all
be OK.

I personally never cared much about weapons of mass destruction. People
like Saddam have no right to rule countries, WMD or no WMD. I was more
concerned about his threat to his own people than to his neighbors.
As I said many times, I wish Mugabe and Castro sat on a bucket of oil,
so the US would have the incentive to do something about them.

Now, I have quite a contrary view. I feel lied to, conned, by my
own (UK) government. In addition, more and more, I'm coming to the view
that Bush is a frighteningly out of control powermonger

Hm. I've never been a huge fan of Bush, but having now seen the
``Democratic wing'' of the Democratic party in action, I came to the
conclusion that Bush is far better than the proposed alternative.
I understand that other people have come to a different conclusion.

Basically, I'm unconvinced that life for Iraqis _under_ Saddam Hussein
is any worse than life after his deposal.

Everything I hear suggests that, by and large, Iraqis are very happy
to be rid of Saddam, the current troubles notwithstanding. Of course,
I have no first-hand evidence. If someone has been to Iraq lately,
I'd love to hear their impressions.

Vitaly Shmatikov wrote:

What will it take to convince you that they were right on the Iraq lunacy?

What will it take to convince you that Shrub & Co did a Good Thing (TM)
in ridding Iraq of Saddam?

I am still waiting to see all the Iraqi people cheering the arrival of the
Americans, not those puny little gatherings they showed a year ago. It might
be a little more convincing if there had not been a year of unrest leading to a
month of country wide insurgency that has seen more Americans killed than there
were when the "won" the war.

Not to mention that the French government is a particularly bad choice
of a posterboy for sensible Iraq policy, considering that they tried
their darnedest to keep Saddam in power not of out any noble sentiment,
but purely out of anti-American spite

Oh poppycock. I think perhaps you are confusing French support to spite the US
with US support to spite Iran.


and the desire to keep their
quasi-state oil companies profitably engaged in the Iraqi oil scam.

As opposed to a quasi government to enrich oil companies?




(And while they are indeed losing ground, they still have good wine.)

At the top end, undoubtedly. But for those of us who can't afford to
drink top-notch Burgundy every night, middle-of-the-road French wines
are simply not competitive, dollar for dollar, with the stuff that
comes out of places like Chile, South Africa and California these days.

If you know of any good French wine under $30 (preferably something
that would be available in the US), please share the wisdom, I promise
I'll give it a try.

It may surprise you to know that they drink most of their good wine
themselves. They do, however, make a lot of money buy selling the cheap stuff
to you at inflated prices. The really good wines from other countries tend to
be just as expensive as the really good French wines.

Miguel Cruz wrote:


Aah. So not a fan of good food, a good climate, good wine, the right way to
live, lovely countryside and their Government being right about the Iraq
war, eh?

You're thinking of Indonesia. France has horrible cloying mayonnaisey food
and freezing cold weather most of the time.

That would explain the palm trees around Nice.

Vitaly Shmatikov wrote:

Guess what? I _don't_ like anything in Europe

Well, that's an exaggeration. I suppose I do like a few things,
but overall I find Europe a fairly insular and close-minded place,
and France especially so. This is reflected in everything: social
attitudes, lifestyles, travel habits, food, what have you. For a real
vacation, I'd much rather trek through a random African country than
drag myself from one cathedral to another.

Well, Cathedrals are a matter of taste. I enjoy the older ones, not
least because you witness the religion that, for good and evil, was
instrumental in shaping the world which most of the developed world now
inhabits.

As for being close-minded, that's odd. Admittedly, I've only been to
Egypt, but I'm hard-pressed to think of any definition of 'open-minded'
where anywhere in Arica would really trump France. What country does-
seriously? I wouldn't want to live anywhere in Africa, that's for sure,
and I wouldn't say that about France. (Well, I'm happy in the UK- I have
no desire to move _to_ France, but you get the point.)

David

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk