Best choice of train tickets in Japan?

I'm going to Japan in about a month's time and had initially planned
to buy a "JR pass" ticket for one week.
(I'm travelling around the world, currently just arrived in
Queenstown, New Zealand, and planned to buy it has to be used no more
than 3 months from when you buy it).

Anyway, I was looking through travel books in the bookstores in
Sydney, and in "Let's go Japan" there was some mention of the JR pass
usually not being worth it, and that buying some special ticket
vouchers would be a better deal unless you travel every single day
during the time you're using the JR pass. I didn't get time to read
the details properly (too bad I didn't buy the book when I saw it
-hopefully I'll find it here in NZ as well, not costing any more), but
I think it was made for schoolkids or others travelling during the
school holidays.

I'll be arriving in Japan on the 2nd of April, and will probably
travel the most when I arrive in Kobe around the 15th, while staying
there for approx 2 weeks. I haven't decided all the places I want to
go yet, but I believe Kobe will be a "base" for me as I've worked out
cheap accomodations there, taking daytrips to other places not too far
away. This is what I have so far:

-Arrive at Osaka Kansai airport, travel directly to Kyoto
-Stay 1 week in Kyoto
-Fly from Osaka Kansai to Sapporo
-Stay in Sapporo for approx 4 days
-Fly from Sapporo to Tokyo
-Stay in Tokyo for 2-3 days
-Go (bus? train?) to Kobe
-Stay in Kobe for approx. 2 weeks
-Go (bus? train?) to Tokyo
-Stay in Tokyo approx 1 week

I really want to go to Mt. Fuji, even though I understand you can't go
to the top that time of year, but at least I'll be able to venture
around at the bottom parts of the mountain, right?
It would be great to take daytrips to many of the cities and towns
within a day's trip distance of Kobe -I'm open for suggestions.

So, taken all this into account, what kind of ticketing solution would
be best? I've also heard that taking buses is cheaper, but they
usually run during the night, so not daytrips. Maybe I need to
reconsider, taking some stay-over trips as well?

Travelling constantly for one week sounds like a lot of stress to me,
but if I do buy a JR pass and relax for a day or two in between it
probably isn't worth it.

Any thoughts/ideas about all of this?


Hallvard

Hallvard Tangeraas wrote:

Any thoughts/ideas about all of this?

As a very rough rule of thumb, the 1-week railpass is about equivalent to
the return shinkansen fare from Tokyo to Kyoto (and back). If you travel
from Tokyo to Kobe and back, the pass would save you money... except that if
you are staying there longer than one week. If you are flying everywhere
while in Japan, I wouldn't bother about getting a railpass.
The other cheap ticket the book you mention was probably talking about is
probably the "Seishun 18" ticket, which is only available at certain times
of the year. In most cases, this is not really much use to visitors
travelling longer distances, as it is limited only to local trains, and is
not valid on express or shinkansen services.

--
Dave Fossett
Saitama, Japan

(Hallvard Tangeraas) wrote in message om...
So, taken all this into account, what kind of ticketing solution would
be best? I've also heard that taking buses is cheaper, but they
usually run during the night, so not daytrips. Maybe I need to
reconsider, taking some stay-over trips as well?

Travelling constantly for one week sounds like a lot of stress to me,
but if I do buy a JR pass and relax for a day or two in between it
probably isn't worth it.

Any thoughts/ideas about all of this?

JR West offers rail passes in shorter increments, and might be a
better choice for you. There's also a non-JR pass for the Osaka area,
but the name escapes me at the moment; that pass also gets you some
discounts for some museums, etc. There's also a JR East pass, but I
don't think it's as good a deal. The JR West 8-day pass, too, isn't
that great of a value.

Basically you need to do a cost analysis of your trip. Take the costs
of each individual leg of your trip (use Hyperdia for this;
http://www.hyperdia.com/cgi-english/) and see if the rail pass makes
sense.

John W.

(John W.) wrote in message om...
(Hallvard Tangeraas) wrote in message om...

So, taken all this into account, what kind of ticketing solution would
be best?

JR West offers rail passes in shorter increments, and might be a
better choice for you. There's also a non-JR pass for the Osaka area,
but the name escapes me at the moment; that pass also gets you some
discounts for some museums, etc. There's also a JR East pass, but I
don't think it's as good a deal. The JR West 8-day pass, too, isn't
that great of a value.

Basically you need to do a cost analysis of your trip. Take the costs
of each individual leg of your trip (use Hyperdia for this;
http://www.hyperdia.com/cgi-english/) and see if the rail pass makes
sense.

Thanks -useful site!
I haven't really had time to plan ahead (I'm travelling around the
world in lots of countries and have had to plan as I go along) and I
don't have time to go into any extensive planning now either as I'm
travelling around in New Zealand.

Anyway, I know for a fact that I'm going to Tokyo and that I will be
going to Kobe somehow from there. I would also like to see Mt. Fuji if
even just walking around a bit at the bottom to feel that "I've been
there" (I know it's not the season for ascending the top). Other than
that I haven't made any specific plans, but would of course like to
see as much of Japan as I possibly can without breaking the bank and
without getting completely stressed out by travelling.
I'm really open for suggestions here.

I know that I can buy JR rail passes in Auckland which will be my last
stop here in New Zealand before I leave on the 2nd of April, so
there's still a little time to decide if I want to buy it or not, but
right now I'm very uncertain.


Are day-trips from Kobe to various cities around there a realistic
idea, or will it mostly be a matter of sitting on trains, having a
couple of hours there, then getting back on the train?
I ask because I have worked out cheap accomodations with a friend of
my family in Kobe, so I'd rather not pay extra for that in the other
cities/towns if possible. But if travelling to/from those places takes
a while it's probably worth staying overnight and seeing more.


Hallvard

(Hallvard Tangeraas) wrote in message . com...

Are day-trips from Kobe to various cities around there a realistic
idea, or will it mostly be a matter of sitting on trains, having a
couple of hours there, then getting back on the train?
I ask because I have worked out cheap accomodations with a friend of
my family in Kobe, so I'd rather not pay extra for that in the other
cities/towns if possible. But if travelling to/from those places takes
a while it's probably worth staying overnight and seeing more.

I personally think Kobe is a good place to stay while visiting the
rest of the area. A lot depends, of course, on where in Kobe and your
proximity to the major rail stations. But from Shin Kobe, for example,
you can hop on a Shinkansen to just about anyplace major, from
Hiroshima to Kyoto all as day trips. Also you're not that far from
Osaka, which I believe has some very nice redeeming qualities. Also
Kobe itself has many fine restaurants and shops, with some interesting
attractions (try to do the walk from Motomachi station to Kobe
station, visiting the shops that reside under the railroad tracks;
some good deals, some interesting stuff, and not a bad thing to
include in a day tour of Kobe).

John W.

i stayed for a week in kobe last august (again... cheap accomodation
arrangements).

i agree that it Kobe a good place to base yourself.
perhaps invest in a 7 day JR rail pass, and activate it on commencing your
trip
from Tokyo to Kobe.
That will give you a cheap ride back to Kobe, and then give you 7 days of
cheap side trips around Kobe.
Some easy day trips from Kobe a Hiroshima (a must see), Kyoto, Osaka,
Nara, Nagoya,
Shikoku Island, Gifu, Himeji, the Japan Sea coast and even Fukuoka. Trip
times aren't very long (on the shinkansen-only routes), and they are
enjoyable, because you can watch the "scenery" wizz past you while you enjoy
a sukiyaki and an asahi beer. More
than enough options to fill 7 days of travel. Then you could focus your last
week
around the Kobe area.
That was my basic plan, and it worked well.
The train system is so reliable all over Japan, I was able to leave Kobe via
a
Shinkansen, only 5 or 6 hours before my flight home from TOKYO, and there
was no stress. All connected smoothly.

Another good site for journey planning in Japan is:
http://www.jorudan.co.jp/english/

If you do find any more useful weblinks for Japan (or anywhere) feel free to
post them on my travel information "sharing" website:
http://www.cybersuitcase.com/
I only started it a few weeks ago, so it's still a work in progress, with
more features being added all the time.

Dave






"Hallvard Tangeraas" wrote in message
om...
(John W.) wrote in message
om...
(Hallvard Tangeraas) wrote in message
om...

So, taken all this into account, what kind of ticketing solution would
be best?

JR West offers rail passes in shorter increments, and might be a
better choice for you. There's also a non-JR pass for the Osaka area,
but the name escapes me at the moment; that pass also gets you some
discounts for some museums, etc. There's also a JR East pass, but I
don't think it's as good a deal. The JR West 8-day pass, too, isn't
that great of a value.

Basically you need to do a cost analysis of your trip. Take the costs
of each individual leg of your trip (use Hyperdia for this;
http://www.hyperdia.com/cgi-english/) and see if the rail pass makes
sense.

Thanks -useful site!
I haven't really had time to plan ahead (I'm travelling around the
world in lots of countries and have had to plan as I go along) and I
don't have time to go into any extensive planning now either as I'm
travelling around in New Zealand.

Anyway, I know for a fact that I'm going to Tokyo and that I will be
going to Kobe somehow from there. I would also like to see Mt. Fuji if
even just walking around a bit at the bottom to feel that "I've been
there" (I know it's not the season for ascending the top). Other than
that I haven't made any specific plans, but would of course like to
see as much of Japan as I possibly can without breaking the bank and
without getting completely stressed out by travelling.
I'm really open for suggestions here.

I know that I can buy JR rail passes in Auckland which will be my last
stop here in New Zealand before I leave on the 2nd of April, so
there's still a little time to decide if I want to buy it or not, but
right now I'm very uncertain.


Are day-trips from Kobe to various cities around there a realistic
idea, or will it mostly be a matter of sitting on trains, having a
couple of hours there, then getting back on the train?
I ask because I have worked out cheap accomodations with a friend of
my family in Kobe, so I'd rather not pay extra for that in the other
cities/towns if possible. But if travelling to/from those places takes
a while it's probably worth staying overnight and seeing more.


Hallvard

(Hallvard Tangeraas) wrote in message om...
-Arrive at Osaka Kansai airport, travel directly to Kyoto
-Stay 1 week in Kyoto

How about the Kansai Thru Pass:

http://www.surutto.com/conts/ticket/3dayeng/

And/or the Kansai area pass:

http://www.westjr.co.jp/english/engl...04/kansai.html

-Fly from Osaka Kansai to Sapporo
-Stay in Sapporo for approx 4 days
-Fly from Sapporo to Tokyo
-Stay in Tokyo for 2-3 days

The following passes then might be of interest to you while in Tokyo:

http://www.jreast.co.jp/e_pass/index.html

http://www.tokyometro.go.jp/e/ticket/ticket.html

http://www.kotsu.metro.tokyo.jp/util/english/index.html

-Go (bus? train?) to Kobe

You do realize that taking the bus means you need to stay in seat for
a long time, and not to mention you're vulnerable toward the local
traffic?

Taking the Shinkansen might allow you to save time and have a less
stressful travel, though taking the Shinkansen means that you will see
not much of the outside enviroment (blur, tunnels, lots of rice field,
and so on).

Unless of course you want to stop in between Tokyo and Kobe, and also
save a night accomodation by using the bus.

Anyway. Since you start your trip from Kyoto, why not just spend the
first part of your travel around the Kansai area, then move on to
Tokyo, and then to Sapporo. Or Kansai to Sapporo and then finish off
with Tokyo.

-Stay in Kobe for approx. 2 weeks
-Go (bus? train?) to Tokyo

Again, see above.

-Stay in Tokyo approx 1 week

Again, see above.

Any thoughts/ideas about all of this?


Hallvard

(John W.) wrote in message om...
JR West offers rail passes in shorter increments,
and might be a better choice for you.

There are two types of JR West passes.

- Sanyo area pass, which allow you to travel as far as the Sanyo area.
It even allow you to take a ride at the Nozomi Shinkansen, the fastest
train service in Japan, JR West Sanyo area pass is the only pass that
allowed its holder to take the Nozomi.

- Kansai area pass, which allow you to travel around in the Kansai
area. This pass doesn't allow you to use the Shinkansen services.

http://www.westjr.co.jp/english/engl...n04/index.html

There's also a non-JR pass for the Osaka area,
but the name escapes me at the moment;
that pass also gets you some
discounts for some museums, etc.

Kansai Thru Pass

http://www.surutto.com/conts/ticket/3dayeng/

There's also a JR East pass, but I
don't think it's as good a deal.

http://www.jreast.co.jp/eastpass/period.html

The Flexible 4-days pass might be interesting, it allow people to
travel in any of 4 days of their choices. That mean you can for
example travel in the 1st, 7th, 9nth, and 23rd day since the pass was
first used, instead of the regular 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th.

The JR West 8-day pass, too,
isn't that great of a value.

But it allow the holder to use the Nozomi Shinkansen, which seems to
be the only pass that has that kind of privilege.

Basically you need to do a cost analysis of your trip. Take the costs
of each individual leg of your trip (use Hyperdia for this;
http://www.hyperdia.com/cgi-english/) and see if the rail pass makes
sense.

Correct.

John W.

Thanks for all the information here from everybody!
It's made me pick up my "Lonely planet: Japan" book, thinking of which
possibilities I have, so now I've got some more questions :-) ....


(EAC) wrote in message om...

(Hallvard Tangeraas) wrote in message om...

-Go (bus? train?) to Kobe

You do realize that taking the bus means you need to stay in seat for
a long time, and not to mention you're vulnerable toward the local
traffic?

I just thought of another thing: being a "tall" westerner I will
probably have to squeeze myself into seats, which won't be comfortable
for a long busride. As for trains I can always move around now and
then.


Anyway. Since you start your trip from Kyoto, why not just spend the
first part of your travel around the Kansai area, then move on to
Tokyo, and then to Sapporo. Or Kansai to Sapporo and then finish off
with Tokyo.

Yes, good idea, but I'll be staying with a Japanese friend in Kyoto
and need that week there, to see Kyoto, get aquainted with Japan and
him.
I'm sure it will be a culture shock, so I'd rather not do too much in
the very beginning when I'm pretty clueless about it all.


I've been rethinking the whole thing, and maybe, instead of having a
base in Kyoto and taking daytrips in the region, maybe I could just
travel from one place to another towards the south/west region of
Kobe, staying overnight in hostels or whatever I find cheap, then move
on to the next place. Would sure save me a lot of stress, but also a
challenge in working out the accomodation bit -but then again, isn't
that what it's all about? Having a challenge, living adventerously,
not knowing what's around the next corner.

Is it hard to work out the hostel thing? Do I need to book in advance?
And if yes, how do I do that when it's hard to find people who speak
English?
Are hostels in Japan usually fully booked (outside the holidays)?

Another thing: what about finding train schedules/routes? Can I easily
obtain that sort of information in English?


A few more questions:

1) When I get to Sapporo, can I travel to nearby places and see more
of the countryside? I'd love to see more of the Japan that us
westerners usually don't associate Japan by (mountains, lakes, forests
etc.). And I know that Japan has volcanoes, which would be very
interesting, though I don't know where.

2) It seems that the Fuji Go-ko (five lakes) area is the best place to
get to see (and be near) Mt. Fuji. Maybe I could take a train from
Tokyo, stop there (Kawaguchi-ko station in the Fuji Yoshida area), or
Hakone, spend the night there, then move on to Kobe. Is that a plan?

3) I hear that plane tickets can be bought cheaply now and then.
Perhaps after having travelled west from Kobe and want to go back
again I could take a plane back there instead of the Shinkansen?


Hallvard

(Hallvard Tangeraas) wrote in message . com...

I've been rethinking the whole thing, and maybe, instead of having a
base in Kyoto and taking daytrips in the region, maybe I could just
travel from one place to another towards the south/west region of
^^
Kobe

FROM Kobe is of course what I meant to say!
Starting in Kobe, then taking the train towards the west, from city to
city, then ending up in say... Fukuoka where I could either take the
train back or find a cheap flight.

I'm trying to get started before I actually arrive in Japan with some
sort of idea which places I'd like to see. I'm a little clueless right
now, but I've been like that all along, for all the countries I've
visited so far (I'm in New Zealand right now) and it's all worked out
fine, though the first few days have always been nerve-wrecking and
stressful as there's so many new things to work out.

Will my "plan as you go along" strategy work fine for Japan as well,
or will that be too hard?
The thing is that not having been to a place it's really hard to plan
(or at least not having those plans change at some stage, or several
times), so I've found it better NOT to make too many specific plans
before arriving and getting an idea/overview of the place.

As for the tickets, I have a feeling that although the JR railpass
will save me money, it'll be too stressfull to travel that much over
such a short period of time. Based on experience after travelling in
many different countries for almost 5 months, I've come to see that I
need to stop up and breathe now and then, just relaxing and chilling
out at the place I'm at.
Are there any train ticket offers about that I could use, seeing that
there's no school holiday about, making the one mentioned earlier
possible?

Or is it most likely that I have to go for 100% full fare?
What about taking a mixture of Shinkansen and "slow" trains along the
way?
That would probably save a lot of money.


Hallvard