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#61
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Fire!
On Nov 1, 1:59 am, "John Wheaton" wrote:
Ah but they do. Saddam refused to allow inspectors unfettered access, or settle the where abouts of "thousands of tonnes" of chemical weapons whne it was made quite clear that he would be deposed. Don't people understand bluffing and grand-standing? It was pretty obvious to me that in the weeks before the "war" Saddam had been pushed to the wall and had no more cards to play. He _had_ given in. It's like the Salem witch trials, where there is no way out for the accused. Now, I don't think any decent person has any affection for Saddam, and I really am more interested in the "intelligence" factor, or lack thereof. Suppose the same services operated in the Cold War. We would likely had WW III for no particular cause. The same argument applies to North Korea, etc.. Too many war-mongers. Ah you mention war-mongers so you do remember Saddam invading Iran and Kuwait. Saddam believed he had a good chance of winning, given (what he believed was) the "limited" arena of these operations. There's no doubt he didn't think he'd beat the US after the first Iraq War. |
#62
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Fire!
On Oct 31, 9:08 am, "Peter D" [email protected] wrote:
"memiki" wrote It is my feeling that when an American publicly insults the Office of the Presidency outside the country, whether it be the Dixie Chicks on a stage in England or Ike or you on a public forum, harm is done to the country. There is enough garbage being thrown by other countries without having sine if our own add to the heap. While I see your point re showing respect to the office and what the office represents, I can assure you that lieing to the American public and the world at large about the rationale for starting a war, presiding over the invasion of a sovereign nation, and assorted grand scale evils and malice doe sfar, far more damage. On a perosnal note, his Adminsitration's treatment of Canadian citizens deemed "enemey combatants" and "terrorists" including being held without consular access, bail, access to counsel, being shipped off to Syria to be tortured for a year, and assorted routine dismissals of the rule of International Law, the Geneva Convention, the US Constitution and Bill of Rights, etc, etc. etc. does far more damage than being called an "Idiot". Peter -- I am not asking anyone to lie!.... nor am I "silencing" anyone.......just asking for people in a public forum to state their dissenting opinions in a civil manner and as a mature adult. Miki |
#63
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Fire!
On Nov 1, 2:30 am, wrote:
Don't people understand bluffing and grand-standing? Kim Jong Il plays the same game. He uses the nuclear card to solicit financial support for his destitute country and to gain personal world recognition. Do you think China would ever allow North Korea to use any nuclear weapon? Who has more stake and influence, China or the US? So, why is the US (administration) so riled up? Is there a possibility that it's for grand-standing and distraction? |
#64
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Fire!
wrote in message ps.com... On Nov 1, 1:59 am, "John Wheaton" wrote: Ah but they do. Saddam refused to allow inspectors unfettered access, or settle the where abouts of "thousands of tonnes" of chemical weapons whne it was made quite clear that he would be deposed. Don't people understand bluffing and grand-standing? It was pretty obvious to me that in the weeks before the "war" Saddam had been pushed to the wall and had no more cards to play. He _had_ given in. He did NOT give in, a thousands of tonnes of chemical weapons are still unaccounted for. |
#65
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Fire!
"memiki" schrieb
You cannot separate the President from the Office of the President. If you insult the President, you insult the Office of the Presidency Every 4 years you have a job vacancy: The "Office of the President" needs a new employee. Then you hire someone. Never forget: *You* are the boss, not the guy you hired! If your employees don't do their job well you are free to criticize or sack them. Without damaging your "company", aka nation, or their job as such. On the contrary: If you don't, you might do more harm. Jochen |
#66
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Fire!
"John Wheaton" wrote
"Peter D" [email protected] wrote in message Do you know, Miki, that this is the sort of reasoning used to silence opposition to Hitler in the early 30s? I'm always cautious of anyone who would seek to silence others on the basis that their speech is "unpatriotic" or "abuses freedom of speech". FDR also put newspapermen and other dissenters in detention. Are you going to compare him to Hitler as well? Absolutely. I deleted the political reference because it's immaterial to the matter at hand. Silencing opposition under the guise of "patriotism" or "the good of the nation" is apolitical as far as I know. |
#67
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Fire!
"John Wheaton" wrote
"Ed Jay" wrote in message John Wheaton scribed: "Ed Jay" wrote in message John Wheaton scribed: "Peter D" [email protected] wrote in message Do you know, Miki, that this is the sort of reasoning used to silence opposition to Hitler in the early 30s? I'm always cautious of anyone who would seek to silence others on the basis that their speech is "unpatriotic" or "abuses freedom of speech". Liberal Icon FDR also put newspapermen and other dissenters in detention. Are you going to compare him to Hitler as well? FDR has nothing to do with Bush. Very true as Bush has not locked up dissidents, or set up internment camps as FDR did. Nothing that FDR may have done excuses Bush. Stoopid argument, John. Hey, William the Conqueror invaded England. Bush didn't. I guess that makes Bush a good guy in your book, huh? That makes as much sense as your argument. :-) How dissent was handled was the subject and Bush was being compared to Hitler who imprisoned and executed dissenters. Not much of a comparison there so I provided an example of a liberal Democrat Icon that went much farther than Bush by directly silencing dissenters by imprisoning them. Actually, John, you misquote me. I didn't compare Bush to Hitler. I didn't compare anyone to Hitler. I simply stated that I noticed a similarity betwen the belief that Speaking out critically is "unpatriotic". |
#68
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Fire!
"John Wheaton" wrote in message
. .. "Dave Smith" wrote in message ... Abuse of freedoms? You government is holding people without charges for years, but doing so in places like Cuba where they figure American law does not apply. You might consider reading the news before you comment on it. Everyone at Gitmo had a hearing to establish that they were enemy combatants before they were sent there. In every war, enemy combatants are rountinely held until hostilities cease. Obfuscaiton and sophistry! Even "ennemy combatants' is a contruct to avoid "criminal" which would require the government to affor dhte accused certian legal rights under the Constituionand Bill of Rights and "enemy" which would require the government to afford them certian rights under the Geneva Convention. They are afforded netiher because they are being held by a government that refuses to obey the very laws they seek to force others to obey. The have a rendition program to ship people to third countries where they may be tortured. Egyptians were sent to Egypt, and Saudis to Saudi Arabia, as in they were sent home. At least one CANDIAN was snet to Syria where he was tortured for a year. And even though it is clear that he was not a "terrorist" and had no link with same, that he was 100% an inncoent man, your government still refuses to apologise to the man and take him off the no fly list. |
#69
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Fire!
"sharx35" wrote in message
news:7KcWi.66410$G25.701@edtnps89... TheNewsGuy(Mike) wrote: memiki wrote: ... Excuse me.... but what do you mean by "you guys"....; I think he means the idiots who are STILL supporting this outlandishly corrupt and incompetent administration. The REAL idiots are the ones who are giving moral support to the terrorists BY attacking this administration. THe REAL patriots are the ones who see the Emperor naked and say so! |
#70
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Fire!
"memiki" wrote
On Oct 31, 9:08 am, "Peter D" [email protected] wrote: "memiki" wrote It is my feeling that when an American publicly insults the Office of the Presidency outside the country, whether it be the Dixie Chicks on a stage in England or Ike or you on a public forum, harm is done to the country. There is enough garbage being thrown by other countries without having sine if our own add to the heap. While I see your point re showing respect to the office and what the office represents, I can assure you that lieing to the American public and the world at large about the rationale for starting a war, presiding over the invasion of a sovereign nation, and assorted grand scale evils and malice doe sfar, far more damage. On a perosnal note, his Adminsitration's treatment of Canadian citizens deemed "enemey combatants" and "terrorists" including being held without consular access, bail, access to counsel, being shipped off to Syria to be tortured for a year, and assorted routine dismissals of the rule of International Law, the Geneva Convention, the US Constitution and Bill of Rights, etc, etc. etc. does far more damage than being called an "Idiot". Peter -- I am not asking anyone to lie!.... nor am I "silencing" anyone.......just asking for people in a public forum to state their dissenting opinions in a civil manner and as a mature adult. Miki, I didn't say your were. I simply related a view that I saw a parallel. Dont' take it so personally. :-) |
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