Forced Tipping er: Service Charge on NCL

wrote in message
...
If this is indeed a "Service charge" rather then a "Tip" I would also
have a problem with it.

On short cruises, say 2-4 days, when travelling Solo, I do not go to
the Dining room. I prefer to just go to the Lido buffett or a fee
based dining room.

That said, they get a tip from me in the alt area. When I eat for
dinner in the Lido I always leave a few $ on the table, which I'm
sure gets pocketed by that areas server. They tend to be quick with a
water/tea/lemonade or whatever after the first night.

I would have a problem if I could not have this "Service charge"
removed.

For example; this Saturday I will be on a Celebrity Century for their
once a year two-night cruise to Nassau (On a Sunday at that.. YUK!)
If charged for the dining room that would bother me, as I have no
plans at present to go there....but it would not be a Deal Buster if
they did.

If you didn't eat at all (zero meals anywhere for the cruise), then I'd have
no problem with you not tipping, but dinner dining room waiters are the same
people who work the lido for breakfast and lunch. So if you eat breakfast
and lunch... and then dinner (all in the lido) then I think you should tip
them through the automated tipping so they all participated in pooled
sharing of tips.

--Tom

"gary" wrote in message
...

I didn't try. Arguing with people at the Purser's desk about their
policies just makes me furious since the desk clerks are generally NOT
authorized to change account totals. And I didn't want to spoil the
cruise for the others in my party. Besides, if I reported every
instance of poor service, I would have been at the desk after almost
every meal.

The ship was the Star. The itinerary was the Mexican Riviera 7 day
over Christmas.

I don't expect to ever take an NCL ship again. I just want to be sure
my future cruises are on ships where such a policy doesn't exist.



Much of the industry seems to be migrating that way. Particularly as other
cruise lines implement their versions of open seating dining. Assuming the
issue isn't one of simply being cheap (which it seems to be for many people
who complain about automatic tipping - auto tips were put in place to solve
the problem of people who "stiffed" the people on tips because they were
cheap), instead of avoiding that type of tipping policy, perhaps the better
scenario would be to look for cruise lines where service isn't an issue even
if it includes automatic tipping. You might look at the likes of Crystal,
Oceania, Regent, Silversea or Seabourn. I'm sure you won't have any service
problems on their ships. On the other hand if it truly is a function of
being cheap, it's doubtful someone who's cheap is going to pay Regent or
Crystal Prices. But if service is the main issue, those cruise lines should
solve the problem.

--Tom

On 1/12/10 3:57 PM, in article , "Tom K"
wrote:


"gary" wrote in message
...

I didn't try. Arguing with people at the Purser's desk about their
policies just makes me furious since the desk clerks are generally NOT
authorized to change account totals. And I didn't want to spoil the
cruise for the others in my party. Besides, if I reported every
instance of poor service, I would have been at the desk after almost
every meal.

The ship was the Star. The itinerary was the Mexican Riviera 7 day
over Christmas.

I don't expect to ever take an NCL ship again. I just want to be sure
my future cruises are on ships where such a policy doesn't exist.



Much of the industry seems to be migrating that way. Particularly as other
cruise lines implement their versions of open seating dining.

And/or because cruise lines grow in non-U.S. markets where tipping policies
differ. You'll find a discussion on CruiseCritics where Australians beg
American visitors not to import the U.S. system to their country and try to
explain that tipping is almost never expected. Similarly, continentals and
Brits are not used to tipping the way the Americans are, though they will be
happy to tip on a cruise after being told cabin stewards and waiters depend
on tips.





Assuming the
issue isn't one of simply being cheap (which it seems to be for many people
who complain about automatic tipping - auto tips were put in place to solve
the problem of people who "stiffed" the people on tips because they were
cheap), instead of avoiding that type of tipping policy, perhaps the better
scenario would be to look for cruise lines where service isn't an issue even
if it includes automatic tipping. You might look at the likes of Crystal,
Oceania, Regent, Silversea or Seabourn.

Or Azamara and - generally - Celebrity. Nut apparently not: NCL.

I'm sure you won't have any service
problems on their ships. On the other hand if it truly is a function of
being cheap, it's doubtful someone who's cheap is going to pay Regent or
Crystal Prices. But if service is the main issue, those cruise lines should
solve the problem.



--Tom

I don't expect to ever take an NCL ship again. I just want to be sure
my future cruises are on ships where such a policy doesn't exist.

Sorry you didn't enjoy your cruise, Gary. We have taken many holiday
cruises on many different cruise lines, and overall, I'd have to say,
service has suffered as compared to non-holiday cruise weeks. I'm sure
you observed the contributing factors at work--a ship full to the brim
with passengers in holiday mode and all that implies; a higher
percentage of demanding passengers in view of the premium paid to
cruise during a holiday week and the fact that many are paying for
multiple family cabins; and crew stress dealing with extra people and
duties, heightened for those who missing being home celebrating the
holidays.

But gosh, what's not to like about cruising over the holidays?! I'm
sure you had a wonderful time with your family in spite of any service
lapses.

FYI, regarding your future cruise plans, I am pretty sure all of the
mass market lines have gone to a system whereby the *suggested* daily
gratuity is automatically added to your account (whether called a tip,
gratuity or service charge). It is up to you to request an adjustment
or removal, if you wish. I don't believe this is a "surprise" feature--
just like the NCL website language cited above, tipping practices are
generally published in all cruise line literature, and if you're
uncertain about it, you can always ask your travel agent.

I wish a travel agent conversant in NCL's practices would jump in and comment regarding the sticky point of whether the purser's staff will argue over your right to removal or demand you perform some condition precedent giving them a chance to make things right. Is this rather onerous "service charge" language strictly enforced, i.e., does it, in fact, represent a departure from the "tips added to your account for convenience" practice to which we've grown accustomed? To me, I think the language is over-the-top and thus bad customer relations. But we're all consumers, we know the drill. If you have a legitimate gripe about customer service, it is absolutely most appropriate and effective to raise the issue right then and there with the folks who can fix it for you or at least modify future practices. I thought that's all they were really trying to convey--don't suffer in silence and then punish us by stiffing the staff and writing a bad comment card; but yeah, you can ask for the auto-tipping to be removed.

Is that not the case?

Diana Ball
Austin, TX

you can ask for the auto-tipping to be removed.

Is that not the case?


I've cruised on most of the mass-market lines - including NCL (several
years ago now). Most (now probably ALL) include the gratuity
automatically on the bill. This was the first time that the charge was
listed as "Service Charge" ie: non-negotiable rather than "Gratuity"
ie: negotiable.

I also read the "fine print" in the contract so I was aware of the
fee. Had I been the person making the ship choice, I would have chosen
Carnival or Princess instead. But someone else in our party was doing
the planning so I went along for the ride.

And yes, it WAS fun - because we (our group) made it so - NOT because
of anything the cruise line did.


Gary

On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 11:35:56 -0800 (PST), gary
wrote:

I've cruised on most of the mass-market lines - including NCL (several
years ago now). Most (now probably ALL) include the gratuity
automatically on the bill. This was the first time that the charge was
listed as "Service Charge" ie: non-negotiable rather than "Gratuity"
ie: negotiable.

Hi Gary,

NCL started the non-refundable service fee on their Hawaii sailings
many years ago due to the high cost of the US work force. They then
spread the service fee to their International fleet. It has been
dicussed/cussed in many threads here and on cruise forums all over the
net.
--
Ray Goldenberg 800-719-9917 or 805-566-3905
Lighthouse Travel http://www.lighthousetravel.com
Follow us on Twitter http://twitter.com/lighthousetravl
Follow us on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/ray.goldenberg

NCL started the non-refundable service fee on their Hawaii sailings
many years ago due to the high cost of the US work force. *They then
spread the service fee to their International fleet. *It has been
dicussed/cussed in many threads here and on cruise forums all over the
net.
--
Ray Goldenberg 800-719-9917 or 805-566-3905


Ray, thanks for the information. Obviously, I missed the apparently
old news on NCL's practices.

I "get it" for Hawaii; I don't for the rest. Just another reason I
won't be sailing NCL again.

Diana

We just have a forget about it tip on the bar bill,you pay a 15%
charge,and then on the bottom of your bill a place for an additional
tip. We do not leave a tip on the bar bill,but if the waiter is
good we give him a nice tip after serving us.





cruise lover(~~~~~)






..

*You might look at the likes of Crystal,
Oceania, Regent, Silversea or Seabourn. *I'm sure you won't have any service
problems on their ships. *

I've never been on any of these lines but my friends were on a
Silverseas cruise a couple of years ago. The policy on that ship was
"Tipping is purely optional and NOT expected". No auto-charge to the
bill. No envelopes. The tips were included in the price of the cruise.

They reported similar staff attitudes to what I found on NCL.
Apparently the lack of a potential tip over what was "guaranteed" is a
big impediment to exemplary service - regardless of how much the
ticket price is.

Gary

"gary" wrote in message
...
You might look at the likes of Crystal,
Oceania, Regent, Silversea or Seabourn. I'm sure you won't have any
service
problems on their ships.
I've never been on any of these lines but my friends were on a
Silverseas cruise a couple of years ago. The policy on that ship was
"Tipping is purely optional and NOT expected". No auto-charge to the
bill. No envelopes. The tips were included in the price of the cruise.
They reported similar staff attitudes to what I found on NCL.
Apparently the lack of a potential tip over what was "guaranteed" is a
big impediment to exemplary service - regardless of how much the
ticket price is.

Amen re Oceania. They have the automatic tipping and every crew member we
have met, even deck hands, have a nice smile and a greeting when you meet
them. The only exception is the security people at the top of the gangway
and I imagine they have to appear stern to hold their image. Certainly all
servers have always been very friendly and helpful- absolutely no instance
of poor service or surly attitudes (and this is with open dining). We have
three cruises on Insignia and are leaving tomorrow to board Regatta at Miami
for Passages to Panama so I'll have another one to compare.
Paul Johnson