Count On...

Air travel coming to an end within the next two decades and being
replaced by train travel. We're talking about an ecologically
sustainable future. That's what we're talking about.

Nomad wrote:
And how long will the train take between LA and Sydney?

Such a train would kill much of the scuba diving industry in Australia's east
coast. Imagine travelling underwater by train through the coral reefs with
large picture windows and the big fishies roaming around. (and if you're
lucky, you'd have sharks trying to keep up with the train :-)

LAX-HNL-NAN-SYS is 12,372km.

If an underwater train could maintain TGV speeds of 350kmh, it would take 1.5
days (35 hours) by train. Add a couple hours for a stop at beaches in Hawaii
and Fiji while the train refuels with air, water, food.

You could leave LAX at 17:00, just in time to serve dinner in the dining car,
and arrive Sydney at around 06:00 in the morning 3 days later (train also has
to cross intl date line).

Or, if you only want to spend one night in the train, you could leave at 06:00
in morning, and arrive Sydney at 18:00.

"Dustin Lambert" wrote in message
m...
Air travel coming to an end within the next two decades and being
replaced by train travel. We're talking about an ecologically
sustainable future. That's what we're talking about.

Sigh - the usual, oft-repeated post from someone who
clearly doesn't have the slightest clue what he's talking about.

(I've already got 14 separate flights scheduled in the next
six weeks - including a couple of trans-Pacifics that would
be a WHOLE lot of fun by train...:-))

Bob M.

Dustin Lambert muttered....

Air travel coming to an end within the next two decades and being
replaced by train travel. We're talking about an ecologically
sustainable future. That's what we're talking about.

Troll alert....

Bye the bye, the trollish oaf does not seem to realize that the
energy utilization per passenger mile of diesel powered trains is no better
than most a/c, and all the 'lectrcity coursing along the tracks will for
many decades to come be sourced primarily from fossil fuels.

Even the magic fuel cells currently require an high and expensive
conventional combustion for production of their contents.

Giant sail planes are the answer, my son, snapped aloft by enormous rubber
bands stretched between mountain peaks.

TMO

On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:03:33 -0600, Olivers wrote:

Dustin Lambert muttered....

Air travel coming to an end within the next two decades and being
replaced by train travel. We're talking about an ecologically
sustainable future. That's what we're talking about.

Troll alert....

Bye the bye, the trollish oaf does not seem to realize that the
energy utilization per passenger mile of diesel powered trains is no better
than most a/c, and all the 'lectrcity coursing along the tracks will for
many decades to come be sourced primarily from fossil fuels.

Even the magic fuel cells currently require an high and expensive
conventional combustion for production of their contents.

Eh, there is enough wind energy for BMW owners. And I guess the rest of
us can walk?

"Dustin Lambert" wrote in message
m...
Air travel coming to an end within the next two decades and being
replaced by train travel. We're talking about an ecologically
sustainable future. That's what we're talking about.

Well, on a more serious note, I read an article recently in Readers' Digest
which postulated a theory about trains running on the ocean bed in evacuated
tunnels with maglev or similar technology, the idea being that the journey
would be almost frictionless and therefore once the train was up to speed it
would require minimal energy to keep it moving. The article discussed train
speeds in excess of 1000mph - which would make long journeys rather fast
indeed, e.g. London-NYC 2 hours, LA-Sydney 6 hours, etc.

Not saying it could ever happen, but it's an interesting idea.

Traveller wrote:
Well, on a more serious note, I read an article recently in Readers' Digest
which postulated a theory about trains running on the ocean bed in evacuated
tunnels with maglev or similar technology,

That theory forgets one aspect of reality: the number of years it would take
to pump the air out of such a long volume with existing compressor technology.

If the tunnel is not in vaccuum, this would allow Los Angeles to pump all it
pollution over to Hawaii while a westbound train is travelling, and pump
Hawaiian fresh air to Los Angeles when trains travel eastward.

nobody wrote:

Traveller wrote:

Well, on a more serious note, I read an article recently in Readers' Digest
which postulated a theory about trains running on the ocean bed in evacuated
tunnels with maglev or similar technology,


That theory forgets one aspect of reality: the number of years it would take
to pump the air out of such a long volume with existing compressor technology.

If the tunnel is not in vaccuum, this would allow Los Angeles to pump all it
pollution over to Hawaii while a westbound train is travelling, and pump
Hawaiian fresh air to Los Angeles when trains travel eastward.

I hear the people of LA are 99 percent in favor of this.

Traveller muttered....

"Dustin Lambert" wrote in message
m...
Air travel coming to an end within the next two decades and being
replaced by train travel. We're talking about an ecologically
sustainable future. That's what we're talking about.

Well, on a more serious note, I read an article recently in Readers'
Digest which postulated a theory about trains running on the ocean bed
in evacuated tunnels with maglev or similar technology, the idea being
that the journey would be almost frictionless and therefore once the
train was up to speed it would require minimal energy to keep it
moving. The article discussed train speeds in excess of 1000mph -
which would make long journeys rather fast indeed, e.g. London-NYC 2
hours, LA-Sydney 6 hours, etc.

If that's within your conceptual parameters of a "more serious note", I've
this bridge....

1. MAG-LEVving along at 1K mph far beneath the waves might be fun, but
intensely claustrophobic.

2. A minor mechanical failure of the Lucas Electrics somewhere out about
"Ocean Midpoint" provides the prospect of "relief trains" and Hollywoodian
scenarios far beyond "The Poseidon Adventure" or "Airplane", depending on
how long the battery back-up lights function.

3. Only Halliburton's well-connected enough to provide the tunneling
machines.

4. Based on average tunnel-drilling speeds, they better start soon.

5. As slow as the drilling would go, the tunnels may be ready before
global warming parboils all of us anyway. We can all hide in the tunnels
waiting for the sea to boil above us.

6. Project seems likely to draw low priority, somewhere below the R&D to
develop big clamps to firmly attach California to the rest of the
Continent. The state is actually only attached by prevailing West Winds
blowing against electricity generating windmills and mountain sides, acting
to press the plates together, halting incipient breakaway and crumbling
into the sea.


Not saying it could ever happen, but it's an interesting idea.

Interesting, but not serious....on a mile per year basis, if we use
Napoleon's perspective as a starting point for the Chunnel, 200 years +/-
for 20 miles +/-, the LAOahu leg's going to take a few aeons.

TMO

"Olivers" wrote in message
...

If that's within your conceptual parameters of a "more serious note", I've
this bridge....

"More serious" in that at least I was putting forward some kind of theory
(albeit shaky) about how this might work


1. MAG-LEVving along at 1K mph far beneath the waves might be fun, but
intensely claustrophobic.

People use Eurotunnel every day. OK, you're only in the tunnel for 25
minutes or so but the concept is already out there and attracting
passengers. On a longhaul flight there's generally sod all to see once
you're at cruising altitude anyway and it certainly wouldn't bother me if I
was seated in a large, comfortable train carriage - remember one of the big
advantages of train vs. plane is that there is, generally, more space and
comfort for passengers.


2. A minor mechanical failure of the Lucas Electrics somewhere out about
"Ocean Midpoint" provides the prospect of "relief trains" and Hollywoodian
scenarios far beyond "The Poseidon Adventure" or "Airplane", depending on
how long the battery back-up lights function.

OK, I take your point here - rescue would be tricky but NOT impossible.


3. Only Halliburton's well-connected enough to provide the tunneling
machines.

And?


4. Based on average tunnel-drilling speeds, they better start soon.

5. As slow as the drilling would go, the tunnels may be ready before
global warming parboils all of us anyway. We can all hide in the tunnels
waiting for the sea to boil above us.

6. Project seems likely to draw low priority, somewhere below the R&D to
develop big clamps to firmly attach California to the rest of the
Continent. The state is actually only attached by prevailing West Winds
blowing against electricity generating windmills and mountain sides,
acting
to press the plates together, halting incipient breakaway and crumbling
into the sea.

That's a concern to California. Can't say I would lose too much sleep if it
crumbled into the ocean one evening. The world doesn't stop at the US
border.



Not saying it could ever happen, but it's an interesting idea.

Interesting, but not serious....on a mile per year basis, if we use
Napoleon's perspective as a starting point for the Chunnel, 200 years +/-
for 20 miles +/-, the LAOahu leg's going to take a few aeons.

How does 1 mile a year equate to 200 years for 20 miles?

Anyway, why would we have to tunnel? If the materials technology was there,
the tunnels could be prefabricated and sunk, and attached to the sea bed
without having to actually drill into the ocean floor...