Poland to join the EU 2004...

Arwel Parry wrote:

In message
1g2ufq5.r52xqz1hrsmvhN%this_address_is_for_spam@y ahoo.co.uk, David
Horne writes
One data point, which might be of interest to non-EU readers is that the
new countries will not just have freedom of movement to other EU
countries, but also the right to work and settle in said countries.

Eventually. There's always a transition period (I think up to 7 years)
before new entrants get full rights, and I think Germany and Austria
will be applying this transition period to the new members as they've
worries about being swamped with people from the new members. The UK, on
the other hand, will let them settle and work here from day 1.

Interesting- didn't know that- other than the UK _would_ let new members
reside here. So, a Pole could settle in the UK, get citizenship, and
move to Germany before they're technically allowed to, as a Pole,
anyway? Seems ludicrous- and though I believe what you say- it's just
stupid.

David

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.co.uk
davidhorne (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

"tile" wrote in message
...
I meant to say that now we need a passport
after may 1st, we shall need only an ID..
there is a big difference
as passport is not a common thing
an ID is compulsory


Not unless there is no bilateral agreement around between existing and
joining members of the EU, passports are required at borders. For instance
Finns cannot travel without passport into Estonia and vice versa from 1st
May 2004 onwards until Estonia joins Schegen.

David Horne wrote:
Interesting- didn't know that- other than the UK _would_ let new members
reside here. So, a Pole could settle in the UK, get citizenship, and
move to Germany before they're technically allowed to, as a Pole,
anyway? Seems ludicrous- and though I believe what you say- it's just
stupid.

Is it common for EU members to move to other EU states and change
citizenship?

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

In italy we are obliged to carry an ID
it is compulsory by law
any document with photo will be enough
( driving licence for instance)
we also have carta di identita'
that enables us to go abroad in many countries
including Egypt
a passport will be issued by local police
an ID will be issued by townhall authorities in few minutes. does not cost
anything and will be good for 5 years.
"David Horne" ha scritto nel
messaggio
news:1g2uf0z.o7p3am1wfjzevN%this_address_is_for_sp ...
Sjoerd wrote:

"tile" schreef in bericht
...
I meant to say that now we need a passport
after may 1st, we shall need only an ID..
there is a big difference
as passport is not a common thing
an ID is compulsory

Maybe in Italy.

My partner and I were once stopped by Italian police in Rome, not far
from Termini, and asked for ID. I was angry, insisting that as a UK
citizen I didn't need any. I don't think I was technically correct- but
as our hotels insisted on keeping our passports, there was no way we
could oblige. I initially suspected the stop was due to homophobia- it
was a bit more nuanced probably, if no less distasteful. They probably
assumed my partner was an illegal immigrant, and that I'd just picked
him up. I produced my Harvard ID, he is IATA card, and we were let go.

Here in the Netherlands, an ID is not compulsory, and we
need to have a passport (or a so-called European travelcard which is a
simplified passport) to travel abroad. The UK and as far as I know the
Scandinavian countries also don't have a national ID card.

There are rumours we might get one here in the UK. I wouldn't mind at
all, providing, as seems the case just now, we weren't obliged to carry
it as a matter of course. i would certainly prefer not to have to carry
my passport _every_ time I boarded a flight- even domestic ones. Either
an ID, or a credit card sized passport, and I'll be happy!

David

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.co.uk
davidhorne (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

"Miguel Cruz" schreef in bericht
...
David Horne wrote:
Interesting- didn't know that- other than the UK _would_ let new members
reside here. So, a Pole could settle in the UK, get citizenship, and
move to Germany before they're technically allowed to, as a Pole,
anyway? Seems ludicrous- and though I believe what you say- it's just
stupid.

Is it common for EU members to move to other EU states and change
citizenship?

No. All of my EU friends here in Amsterdam still have their nationality of
birth, and the Dutch people I know that live elsewhere in the EU all are
still Dutch. Only my sister-in-law is now a dual French-Dutch citizen.
I guess the main reason that people don't change nationality is that
citizens of the current EU members have similar visa requirements for third
countries. When it is much more convenient to have a British, or German, or
Dutch passport than a Polish or Estonian one, people will be more inclined
to change their nationality.

(similarly, I read somewhere that German and Dutch immigrants to the US are
the _least_ likely to naturalise to US citizens. One of the reasons is
probably that a German or Dutch passport is as easy as (or easier?) than a
US one to travel to third countries.

Sjoerd

you do not need to change citinzenship as yr passport bears the inscription

European community
then the name of the state

in Italy you can change citizenship
but it takes 10 yrs of residence..

I agree with the fact that there will be a transition period for the New
Members to have freedom
to work legally in the old members zone.
I mean freely
without any special permission

with aufenthalterlaubniss you can work even now.
the danger is that people leaving near the borders
will commute every day.
that is.. living in Czech republic or Poland and work in austria or germany.
they will have a very high advantage.
their taxes are lower.
their social costs are lower
the cost of living in their countries are lower..
but that happens now already..
In italy we have people from Slovenia or Croatia
commuting every day..
and that is both officially and not officially.
but better that they work officially then without papers
we are swamped by illegal workers that
get from 5 to 10 eur per hour in their hands
without any social protection.
most of them come as tourists from Romania
stay here 3 months
go back
and come back again.
expecially in the building industry you will find that
a large percentage of workers comes to work illegally
while most truck drivers are official immigrants.
"Miguel Cruz" ha scritto nel messaggio
...
David Horne wrote:
Interesting- didn't know that- other than the UK _would_ let new members
reside here. So, a Pole could settle in the UK, get citizenship, and
move to Germany before they're technically allowed to, as a Pole,
anyway? Seems ludicrous- and though I believe what you say- it's just
stupid.

Is it common for EU members to move to other EU states and change
citizenship?

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

"tile" schreef in bericht
...
you do not need to change citinzenship as yr passport bears the
inscription

European community

European Union

Sjoerd

However, strangely, citizens of these new accession states will be able to
move to the UK at will to work as soon as they become members of the EU.
But most other European countries are not extending their hands to them in
this way.

phil

In article ,
Sjoerd wrote:

"Lynn Guinni" schreef in bericht
...
Will Poland (and other new EU members) be modifying their visa
requirements to harmonize with Western Europe?

They have for the most part already done so or will soon do it. Which means
that those nationalities that need visas for Schengen countries will also
need a visa for Poland.

Will the borders be open
as they are now between most EU countries?

Not immediately but after 2 to 3 years.

Sjoerd

Miguel Cruz wrote:

David Horne wrote:
Interesting- didn't know that- other than the UK _would_ let new members
reside here. So, a Pole could settle in the UK, get citizenship, and
move to Germany before they're technically allowed to, as a Pole,
anyway? Seems ludicrous- and though I believe what you say- it's just
stupid.

Is it common for EU members to move to other EU states and change
citizenship?

I don't know anyone who has done it- and the rare scenario I mentioned
above aside, I don't imagine many people would feel the need to do it.

I'm still a bit disturbed that some countries would get away with not
extending freedom of movement to _all_ EU nationals. There are,
admittedly, differences in EU states wrt immigration law, but nothing as
drastic as this.

David

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.co.uk
davidhorne (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

Desmond Coughlan wrote:

le Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:05:09 +0100, dans l'article
1g2v7ty.1l9p9ozs5nq4dN%this_address_is_for_spam@y ahoo.co.uk, David Horne
a dit ...

Interesting- didn't know that- other than the UK _would_ let new members
reside here. So, a Pole could settle in the UK, get citizenship, and
move to Germany before they're technically allowed to, as a Pole,
anyway? Seems ludicrous- and though I believe what you say- it's just
stupid.

Is it common for EU members to move to other EU states and change
citizenship?

I don't know anyone who has done it-

*waves*

Well, that's interesting- is there a short answer why?

David

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.co.uk
davidhorne (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk