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#191
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Americans panicking again..................
In rec.travel.usa-canada Simon Elliott wrote:
All the reports, including the few Israeli ones I've seen, seem to agree on the salient facts of the case. The only difference is attitude: the UK media were outraged, while the few Israeli reports I've seen took the view that the guy was in a war zone and **** happens. One can be outraged by an incident. You're outraged by something much more general, and you're attempting to link the two. Doesn't work, for once you try to establish a pattern of behavior, objective observeration reveals that - barring a few particular incidents - the Israeli side acts with a general regard for civilian life, while the Palestinian side targets civilians. Nex |
#192
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Americans panicking again..................
"Simon Elliott" wrote in message
... alohacyberian writes His employment doesn't mean he wasn't a subversive 'subversive' is quite a subjective term. Many IDF members think that UN Relief and Works Agency is almost by definition subversive. That doesn't make it so. Nor does it make it "not so". Perhaps the people in charge of the situation were privvy to information that you you don't have. KM -- (-:alohacyberian:-) At my website there are 3000 live cameras or visit NASA, play games, read jokes, send greeting cards & connect to CNN news, NBA, the White House, Academy Awards or learn all about Hawaii, Israel and mo http://keith.martin.home.att.net/ |
#193
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Americans panicking again..................
Alan Pollock writes
In rec.travel.usa-canada Simon Elliott wrote: All the reports, including the few Israeli ones I've seen, seem to agree on the salient facts of the case. The only difference is attitude: the UK media were outraged, while the few Israeli reports I've seen took the view that the guy was in a war zone and **** happens. One can be outraged by an incident. I am outraged by this incident. It's very clear cut, it involves the killing of a fellow Brit, and nothing much seems to have been done about it. But you can't build a case on outrage alone, nor do I intend to. You're outraged by something much more general, and you're attempting to link the two. Doesn't work, for once you try to establish a pattern of behavior, objective observeration reveals that - barring a few particular incidents - the Israeli side acts with a general regard for civilian life, Recent, and not so recent, events don't bear this out. I can give you a list as long as your arm if you really want. while the Palestinian side targets civilians. No argument there. But back to Iain Hook. As far as I'm aware, and I might have missed something, there's been no investigation, no senior officers have been court martialled, no heads have rolled. If this is the case, doesn't it indicate that there's a culture of disregard for civilian life within the IDF, and doesn't it indicate that this disregard goes right to the very top? -- Simon Elliott http://www.ctsn.co.uk/ |
#194
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Americans panicking again..................
alohacyberian writes
His employment doesn't mean he wasn't a subversive 'subversive' is quite a subjective term. Many IDF members think that UN Relief and Works Agency is almost by definition subversive. That doesn't make it so. Nor does it make it "not so". Perhaps the people in charge of the situation were privvy to information that you you don't have. In which case this should come out in the investigation, at least in general terms. I've been unable to find any details of any investigation (which doesn't mean that it didn't happen). In any event, unless Mr. Hook was presenting an immediate danger to the IDF personnel, he should not have been shot out of hand even if he was a 'subversive', whatever that much abused term means in this context. But that's a moot point, because no-one has ever presented any evidence to even suggest that Mr. Hook was anything other than an engineer working for UNRWA, trying to do a project management job in very difficult circumstances. -- Simon Elliott http://www.ctsn.co.uk/ |
#195
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Americans panicking again..................
Gregory Morrow wrote:
Sjoerd wrote: Hear, hear. Thanks for a voice of reason in this ocean of aloha's, vitaly's, gregory's and binyamin's extreme right-wing idiots. Tut tut now, Sjoerd - just because I don't follow your "everything is relative" moral mantra doesn't mean that I'm a "right-wing idiot" ('though I'm flattered to be considered in the same category as Vitaly and Binyamin ;-) Just so ya know, I abhor Bush just as much as anybody and hope he and his myrmidons go down in flames in November... As far as the war goes, well we are there and I want to see things go well. This is a good opportunity for some "nation - building" but it the post war plans have been bungled badly. Hope another administration can do a better job of things.... I refuse to yield on my support of Israel and it's policies. The Jews have built themselves a pretty fine little country despite all. As a US tax payer, some of my money goes to aid Israel, and I consider it money well - spent. Frankly, I wouldn't mind at all if more of my tax dollars went to support Israel. At least it's a country that has accomplished something, unlike a lot of the ratholes (Egypt, etc.) into which we've poured money. As for your allusions to Israeli "terrorism", let's put *you* in a situation where everyone that surrounds wants you dead. Let's see how *you* would react. Those enemies that actively try to kill you aren't some cuddly little brown "freedom fighters" but they are your deadly enemies. You'd do everything you legally could to try to keep yourself alive - that is what Israel is doing. Oh, and in this example you have lots of people that you thought were your friends (let's call them "Western Europeans") who are not only giving aid and comfort to your enemies, but actively dislike you for your religious beliefs (let's call this "anti - semitism). Get the picture now? I disdain Islam as it is currently practiced because it is a religion of *death*, not life. The quickest way to heaven the Islam way appears to be to blow yourself up along with a lot of innocents. You can have it. I hate it. To me "Muslim" = "Problem". You Europeans think *exactly* the same thing too, but you are just too pussy - mouthed to say it since you are all so Politically Correct and such (don't bother denying it, all you Euro - pukes *know* I'm right). You'll *rue* the day that you let large numbers of Muslims into your nations, because they are like a cancer, they will attempt to destroy what you've built up over the years (your city of Rotterdam already realises this, thus a ban on refugees, and minimum income requirements in order to get a residence permit).... And I guess my admiration for Israel and Judaism stems from the fact that Judaism is a religion that *affirms* life - it embraces life and learning and vitality and intellectual inquiry and accomplishment and trying to do the best one possibly can while one is living one's short life on this planet. You might say that Judaism is the religion of winners, while OTOH Islam is the religion of losers. I'm an atheist, but I prefer to cast my lot with the winners of the world, thus my respect for Judaism and the state of Israel, who have persevered despite pretty crummy odds.... So that's my little lesson for today. More lessons to follow if requests warrant :-) You GO girl !!! ;-) I think we're just going to have to name you "Honorary Ellen." In her absence somebody's got to keep these ****s in shape. |
#196
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Americans panicking again..................
George Orwell wrote: Gregory Morrow wrote: Sjoerd wrote: Hear, hear. Thanks for a voice of reason in this ocean of aloha's, vitaly's, gregory's and binyamin's extreme right-wing idiots. Tut tut now, Sjoerd - just because I don't follow your "everything is relative" moral mantra doesn't mean that I'm a "right-wing idiot" ('though I'm flattered to be considered in the same category as Vitaly and Binyamin ;-) Just so ya know, I abhor Bush just as much as anybody and hope he and his myrmidons go down in flames in November... As far as the war goes, well we are there and I want to see things go well. This is a good opportunity for some "nation - building" but it the post war plans have been bungled badly. Hope another administration can do a better job of things.... I refuse to yield on my support of Israel and it's policies. The Jews have built themselves a pretty fine little country despite all. As a US tax payer, some of my money goes to aid Israel, and I consider it money well - spent. Frankly, I wouldn't mind at all if more of my tax dollars went to support Israel. At least it's a country that has accomplished something, unlike a lot of the ratholes (Egypt, etc.) into which we've poured money. As for your allusions to Israeli "terrorism", let's put *you* in a situation where everyone that surrounds wants you dead. Let's see how *you* would react. Those enemies that actively try to kill you aren't some cuddly little brown "freedom fighters" but they are your deadly enemies. You'd do everything you legally could to try to keep yourself alive - that is what Israel is doing. Oh, and in this example you have lots of people that you thought were your friends (let's call them "Western Europeans") who are not only giving aid and comfort to your enemies, but actively dislike you for your religious beliefs (let's call this "anti - semitism). Get the picture now? I disdain Islam as it is currently practiced because it is a religion of *death*, not life. The quickest way to heaven the Islam way appears to be to blow yourself up along with a lot of innocents. You can have it. I hate it. To me "Muslim" = "Problem". You Europeans think *exactly* the same thing too, but you are just too pussy - mouthed to say it since you are all so Politically Correct and such (don't bother denying it, all you Euro - pukes *know* I'm right). You'll *rue* the day that you let large numbers of Muslims into your nations, because they are like a cancer, they will attempt to destroy what you've built up over the years (your city of Rotterdam already realises this, thus a ban on refugees, and minimum income requirements in order to get a residence permit).... And I guess my admiration for Israel and Judaism stems from the fact that Judaism is a religion that *affirms* life - it embraces life and learning and vitality and intellectual inquiry and accomplishment and trying to do the best one possibly can while one is living one's short life on this planet. You might say that Judaism is the religion of winners, while OTOH Islam is the religion of losers. I'm an atheist, but I prefer to cast my lot with the winners of the world, thus my respect for Judaism and the state of Israel, who have persevered despite pretty crummy odds.... So that's my little lesson for today. More lessons to follow if requests warrant :-) You GO girl !!! ;-) I think we're just going to have to name you "Honorary Ellen." In her absence somebody's got to keep these ****s in shape. I am *humbled*...lol ;--) [At least JF won't ask me "May I call you Ellen?"...he's already 'round the bend thinking that I am his "nemesis"...] -- Best Greg |
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