Trans Atlantic Crossing

I've been waiting for old salts to chime in regarding "tiny
ships". There are transoceanic crossings every day in cargo and
luxury ships of only a couple of thousand tons displacement. My
first transoceanic crossing was on a liberty ship, a hull
designed in the late 1800s. Gross tonnage was under 10,000 (I
think that's a third that of the Oceania's ships). The hull was
round bottom and of course there was no stabilization. For most
of the operational life of these vessels, there was no long
range weather forecasting. More than once I've gone through part
of a typhoon (Pacific Ocean) or hurricane (Atlantic) aboard one
of these rolling, pitching buckets but other than a bit of
broken crockery never saw any damage. I have been through
similar weather on ships up to the size of a carrier, and it
really wasn't that much better.

Of course there are big differences today - in ships, weather
forecasting, and in us. We're cruisers, looking for comfort and
luxury. And even on a 30,000 ton vessel, we get lots of it - and
safety as well. Artificial stabilization makes even a 20,000 ton
vessel solid in all but the worst seas, and satellite weather
forecasting makes it easy for them to get out of the way of all
but the craziest weather. If the line authorizes the captain to
spend the money, it's 30 knots x 24 hours = 720 nautical miles
per day. At right angles to a typical storm path, that's safe
cruising, but dangerous to the budget and schedule.

When a cruise ship is unfortunate enough to find itself in truly
bad weather (i.e. a typhoon or hurricane), it's a failure of
weather forecasting and judgment. Safety of a large ship isn't
much greater than that of a small ship. And, dollars considered,
the small ship should be quicker spend the fuel to run away.

Overall, I don't think a TA or TP on a 30k ton ship is any more
hazardous than on a ship two or three times that size.

Ike
(a cruising newbie, but I've got years at sea)

wrote in message
ups.com...
On Aug 28, 4:48 pm, "Easy News" wrote:

We haven't actually done a TA, but are considering it for Fall 2009.
What we're considering is booking Oceania, as it includes free
airfare. Since most of our time would be spent on the ship as opposed
to stopping frequently at port, we don't mind spending a bit more for
Oceania since we'd be interested in the ship vs. the itinerary for
that kind of a sailing. I know there is a group going on Oceania next
November TA; you might see if you can get in on that one. Cal Ford
has that group going, I believe. He posts here frequently; he's with
Lido Cruises.


Hi Jo-Ann,

We have been booked with Cal on that Trans Atlantic (Regatta 11/11/2008)
since shortly after returning from the Spring crossing this year on that
same ship. We had done a previous crossing on the Regatta in November, 2004
as well so it will be the third time on this ship. This is the first time
(in 46 cruises) that we didn't hesitate to do a THIRD cruise on the same
ship.

Oceania, at least the Regatta, is far superior to any other cruise
experience we have ever had. The food and service is SUPERB, alternative
restaurants are "No Charge" and the crew is the friendliest we've ever
experienced. The ship is kept in "like new" condition. We found that over
half of the passengers were return, or multiple voyage, Oceania passengers.
We met several that had been on our previous trip on Regatta.

Although the nightly shows were less "spectacular" than some of our previous
cruises (only about six or eight dancer/singers), they were good. The
lecturers were really good. Other plusses were no formal nights, no singing
waiters and no shipboard photographers. Of course there is the "Air and
gratuities included" and, in our case, a generous shipboard credit. I don't
know if that is still in place.

Are you and Bob thinking about joining us? That would be SUPER. I
understand that space for this cruise is filling up, especially for
preferred cabins, so, if you'd like to come along, don't hesitate too long.

Tobieon an Island in the Pacific

Hi Tom,

We have done two crossings on the Regatta and have had some medium size
seas. This ship really takes the waves well. There were some passengers
who had difficulty with it, but I wouldn't say the incidence of "mal de mer"
was any higher than it has been on any of the larger ships we've been on.

Of course, if you are prone to motion sickness, I'd recommend a daily dose
of Bonine.

Tobieon an Island in the Pacific

"Tom K" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ups.com...

We haven't actually done a TA, but are considering it for Fall 2009.
What we're considering is booking Oceania, as it includes free
airfare. Since most of our time would be spent on the ship as opposed
to stopping frequently at port, we don't mind spending a bit more for
Oceania since we'd be interested in the ship vs. the itinerary for
that kind of a sailing. I know there is a group going on Oceania next
November TA; you might see if you can get in on that one. Cal Ford
has that group going, I believe. He posts here frequently; he's with
Lido Cruises.


That's a TINY ship to be doing a trans Atlantic on... I actually had
doubts about doing a Bermuda sailing during the fall on the Journey
(another former Ren sister ship) because of her tiny size. I sailed
through a Nor'easter on the tiny Zenith last year... it wasn't pretty. On
the Explorer this past spring, we sailed through the remnants of a
tropical storm, with waves higher than my second deck window... and until
I opened the window I didn't even know we were in rough seas.

I think I'd want a huge ship to do a crossing. Either a Voyager class or
the QM2. Both from a stability stand point and having tons of stuff to do
for 5-6 days.

--Tom

wrote:

That's a TINY ship to be doing a trans Atlantic on... I actually had
doubts about doing a Bermuda sailing during the fall on the Journey
(another former Ren sister ship) because of her tiny size. I sailed
through a Nor'easter on the tiny Zenith last year... it wasn't pretty. On
the Explorer this past spring, we sailed through the remnants of a
tropical storm, with waves higher than my second deck window... and until
I opened the window I didn't even know we were in rough seas.

I think I'd want a huge ship to do a crossing. Either a Voyager class or
the QM2. Both from a stability stand point and having tons of stuff to do
for 5-6 days.

--Tom
IMO, that's not necessarily true, Tom. The ability to handle rough open
seas is often the effect of hull design as much as it is size of the ship.
In 2001, we sailed on the Crown Odyssey from New Zealand to L.A., a 30-day
cruise. For at least five days of that trip, we were affected by a huge
South Pacific hurricane, a storm that was as big as Canada on the radar. We
ended up changing our iteninerary a number of times (and we missed 3
scheduled ports!). We were never IN the hurricane, but always skirting
around the edges of it (every time we changed our itinerary, the hurricane
changed course and tried to intercept us again!) There were a number of
days that the doors to the outer decks were kept closed, including some days
between Hawaii and LA. Passengers in the forward cabins on lower decks were
orderd to keep their porthole covers closed. At one point, we were in the
dining roon and our table-mates scoffed at our story that a wave had struck
our cabin window, 3 decks above the lowest passenger deck, and relatively
amidship, only one deck below the dining room. Just then, a huge wave
pounded the dining room window, making them instant believers!
But that wonderful ship just plowed straight through the waves, rarely
pitching or rolling significantly in spite of the fierce seas.
And she was relatively small, especially compared to the behemoths at sea
now. She was about 35,000 tons and 1,050 passengers. If Orient Line had
kept her in service, we would have just cruised wherever she went.

Sounds pretty terrifying. I'm rather wondring about my forthcoming trip
to Hawaii now... ...
On my first transatlantic crossing on the QMII, referred to in my
earlier post, it was a bit rough for a couple of days in
mid-ocean(possibly the tail end of the Katrina hurricane). I spent some
four days at a hotel in a seaside town on an island on the Clyde
estuary on that holiday, and on returning to the mainland on the car
ferry a violent wind arose. I'd guess it was about Force 4 -6. That
little ship really heaved about! I tottered out of the tearoom area for
a possibly last smoke in this world before becoming seriously drowned
-I can't swim! - and was immediately soaked with spray. I
remarked with mock reproachfulness to a nearby seaman that the
Queen Mary II hadn't moved about like this, and he said something
nautically technical about it being a bliddy big ship. We did make it to
the other side, and the captain got us into a port, albeit not the one
we should have landed at as it was too exposed. This wasn't the open
sea, so the seas probably weren't all that high, but as it was a
relatively small boat you really felt the deck moving about.
Oh, and I didn't get seasick!
--
Ian

More comments regarding "tiny ships".

Thinking about my personal seafaring history, I realize that the
Oceania Regatta, at 30,000 tons and 600', will be the second
largest ship on which I've ever crossed either ocean. My list
includes ships from under 2,500 tons up to an attack carrier.

Also, I see that Oceania's ships cruise at only 18 knots, which
is probably 80% of full speed. That suggests that max is 22.5
knots, which is equivalent to about 26 mph. A day sailing at
right angles to a predicted storm path therefore takes it about
624 miles away, so the variable is the judgment of the captain
and his management as to when to begin getting out of harm's way.

Since all of these vessels cross from Europe to the U.S. every
November, usually with a high percentage of passengers making
the trip more than once, it's reasonable to assume that such
judgment is generally in favor of comfort.

My wife and I plan to be aboard Regatta from Barcelona to Miami
in November.

Ike

"Tom K" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ups.com...

We haven't actually done a TA, but are considering it for Fall 2009.
What we're considering is booking Oceania, as it includes free
airfare. Since most of our time would be spent on the ship as opposed
to stopping frequently at port, we don't mind spending a bit more for
Oceania since we'd be interested in the ship vs. the itinerary for
that kind of a sailing. I know there is a group going on Oceania next
November TA; you might see if you can get in on that one. Cal Ford
has that group going, I believe. He posts here frequently; he's with
Lido Cruises.


That's a TINY ship to be doing a trans Atlantic on... I actually had
doubts about doing a Bermuda sailing during the fall on the Journey
(another former Ren sister ship) because of her tiny size. I sailed
through a Nor'easter on the tiny Zenith last year... it wasn't pretty. On
the Explorer this past spring, we sailed through the remnants of a
tropical storm, with waves higher than my second deck window... and until
I opened the window I didn't even know we were in rough seas.

I think I'd want a huge ship to do a crossing. Either a Voyager class or
the QM2. Both from a stability stand point and having tons of stuff to do
for 5-6 days.

--Tom
IMO, that's not necessarily true, Tom. The ability to handle rough open
seas is often the effect of hull design as much as it is size of the ship.
In 2001, we sailed on the Crown Odyssey from New Zealand to L.A., a 30-day
cruise. For at least five days of that trip, we were affected by a huge
South Pacific hurricane, a storm that was as big as Canada on the radar. We
ended up changing our iteninerary a number of times (and we missed 3
scheduled ports!). We were never IN the hurricane, but always skirting
around the edges of it (every time we changed our itinerary, the hurricane
changed course and tried to intercept us again!) There were a number of
days that the doors to the outer decks were kept closed, including some days
between Hawaii and LA. Passengers in the forward cabins on lower decks were
orderd to keep their porthole covers closed. At one point, we were in the
dining roon and our table-mates scoffed at our story that a wave had struck
our cabin window, 3 decks above the lowest passenger deck, and relatively
amidship, only one deck below the dining room. Just then, a huge wave
pounded the dining room window, making them instant believers!
But that wonderful ship just plowed straight through the waves, rarely
pitching or rolling significantly in spite of the fierce seas.
And she was relatively small, especially compared to the behemoths at sea
now. She was about 35,000 tons and 1,050 passengers. If Orient Line had
kept her in service, we would have just cruised wherever she went.

"Ike" wrote in message
...
More comments regarding "tiny ships".

Thinking about my personal seafaring history, I realize that the Oceania
Regatta, at 30,000 tons and 600', will be the second largest ship on which
I've ever crossed either ocean. My list includes ships from under 2,500
tons up to an attack carrier. ...

Since all of these vessels cross from Europe to the U.S. every November,
usually with a high percentage of passengers making the trip more than
once, it's reasonable to assume that such judgment is generally in favor
of comfort.
My wife and I plan to be aboard Regatta from Barcelona to Miami in
November.

I was looking for some specifics to respond to the comment about Oceania
"tiny" ships, but your post yesterday said it better than I would have.
Today I would like to add a bit.
All three Oceania ships are 30,277 tons, 594 feet in length, 83.5 feet in
breadth and draw 19.5 feet maximum. If two football fields in length is
tiny...
We also found a significant advantage (IMHO) to the smaller ships. We could
pull right up to the pier at Castries, St. Lucia, less than 100 yards from
the busses and taxis. The QM2 had to anchor out several miles and ferry
their passengers in by tender.
As to ride- most of our sea days on our Lisbon to Barbados cruise in
November '04 were smooth as glass- no perceptible movement at all. One day
we hit some 8 - 10' swells. We experienced some slight pitching, but very
little rolling. All in all, we have never slept better in our lives. I
guess you could say we were rocked gently to sleepG.
Insignia make the run around the tip of South America where seas are
notoriously rough. I guess they aren't too tiny for that pounding. And,
Oceania ships are aesthetically very beautiful- very well proportioned and
balanced. Obviously it's a matter of taste, but I consider the monster
ships to ugly, bulbous things. I don't know how one would find out, but
I'll bet their stability characteristics are better (if not much better)
than the skyscrapers on water.
Oh well, to each his own.
Paul Johnson

Duncan Craig wrote:
"Tom K" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
ups.com...
We haven't actually done a TA, but are considering it for Fall 2009.
What we're considering is booking Oceania, as it includes free
airfare. Since most of our time would be spent on the ship as opposed
to stopping frequently at port, we don't mind spending a bit more for
Oceania since we'd be interested in the ship vs. the itinerary for
that kind of a sailing. I know there is a group going on Oceania next
November TA; you might see if you can get in on that one. Cal Ford
has that group going, I believe. He posts here frequently; he's with
Lido Cruises.

That's a TINY ship to be doing a trans Atlantic on... I actually had
doubts about doing a Bermuda sailing during the fall on the Journey
(another former Ren sister ship) because of her tiny size. I sailed
through a Nor'easter on the tiny Zenith last year... it wasn't pretty. On
the Explorer this past spring, we sailed through the remnants of a
tropical storm, with waves higher than my second deck window... and until
I opened the window I didn't even know we were in rough seas.

I think I'd want a huge ship to do a crossing. Either a Voyager class or
the QM2. Both from a stability stand point and having tons of stuff to do
for 5-6 days.

--Tom
IMO, that's not necessarily true, Tom. The ability to handle rough open
seas is often the effect of hull design as much as it is size of the ship.
In 2001, we sailed on the Crown Odyssey from New Zealand to L.A., a 30-day
cruise. For at least five days of that trip, we were affected by a huge
South Pacific hurricane, a storm that was as big as Canada on the radar. We
ended up changing our iteninerary a number of times (and we missed 3
scheduled ports!). We were never IN the hurricane, but always skirting
around the edges of it (every time we changed our itinerary, the hurricane
changed course and tried to intercept us again!) There were a number of
days that the doors to the outer decks were kept closed, including some days
between Hawaii and LA. Passengers in the forward cabins on lower decks were
orderd to keep their porthole covers closed. At one point, we were in the
dining roon and our table-mates scoffed at our story that a wave had struck
our cabin window, 3 decks above the lowest passenger deck, and relatively
amidship, only one deck below the dining room. Just then, a huge wave
pounded the dining room window, making them instant believers!
But that wonderful ship just plowed straight through the waves, rarely
pitching or rolling significantly in spite of the fierce seas.
And she was relatively small, especially compared to the behemoths at sea
now. She was about 35,000 tons and 1,050 passengers. If Orient Line had
kept her in service, we would have just cruised wherever she went.



Interesting takes on the Oceania ships.

We hit the North Sea on the Regatta as we left the Kiel Canal after 10
days of glass-like Baltic waters. You could feel the change immediately
and we actually moved our table for dinner toward the middle of the
Dining Room to alleviate some of the pitching. Upon discussions later,
we found out the path the Captain chose was not the ultimate it could
have been, but rather to make the proper time to Amsterdam. Regardless,
it was very noticeable, but not objectionable at all - except when
bouncing around the halls like a ping pong ball.

Of course that may have been due to the vodka shots we were slamming
down earlier!

One point that I don't think anyone else brought up...

The direction you travel can make a big difference. Especially if
you're traveling on the QM2.

Remember that you'll be passing through 5 time zones during the
voyage. If you travel East, that means that you lose an hour of sleep
5 nights of the voyage. If you're traveling West, you get an extra
hour 5 times. This is less of an issue for cruise ship
respositionings where you travel slower and take a longer, southerly
route - but if you're doing it in 6 days, as on the QM2, it's like
having the "bad daylight savings time change" practically every
night! Talking to the crew on the QE2 years ago, they commented how
they hate the eastbound crossings because people get so cranky! (of
course it also means that THEY get 1 hour less sleep as well).

Mark

On Aug 28, 1:48 pm, "Easy News" wrote:
I have always wanted to do a Trans Atlantic crossing.
I know the two times of the year are usually in April and October when the
ships are either going to Europe or coming back for repositioning. I
realize we will have to fly one way and take a cruise the other way.

I was thinking that it would be the best thing to fly over and then take the
ship back. That way we would be able to bring back gifts without worrying
about the weight. and lost baggage. That would be in October.

I have been looking at the different cruise lines and the ports in Europe
where they go and where one needs to fly too to catch the ships and NCL
seems to have the best schedule of ports for us. They would be leaving
from Barcelona and arriving in Fort Lauderdale.

My questions are these;
Would October be a good time to do the Trans Atlantic crossing, weather
wise, or would April be safer?

Has anyone done the crossing and if so, would you comment about it?

Are there any specials one can find for the crossings like you find for the
Eastern and Western Caribbean?

Other than Carnival, would there be any cruise lines cheaper than NCL?
Carnival doesn't have enough stops to make it worth while, for me.

Any other information will certainly be appreciated.

Thanks for any and all replies.

Sandy

"Easy News" wrote:

I have always wanted to do a Trans Atlantic crossing.
I know the two times of the year are usually in April and October when the
ships are either going to Europe or coming back for repositioning. I
realize we will have to fly one way and take a cruise the other way.

I was thinking that it would be the best thing to fly over and then take the
ship back. That way we would be able to bring back gifts without worrying
about the weight. and lost baggage. That would be in October.

I have been looking at the different cruise lines and the ports in Europe
where they go and where one needs to fly too to catch the ships and NCL
seems to have the best schedule of ports for us. They would be leaving
from Barcelona and arriving in Fort Lauderdale.

My questions are these;
Would October be a good time to do the Trans Atlantic crossing, weather
wise, or would April be safer?

Has anyone done the crossing and if so, would you comment about it?

Are there any specials one can find for the crossings like you find for the
Eastern and Western Caribbean?

Other than Carnival, would there be any cruise lines cheaper than NCL?
Carnival doesn't have enough stops to make it worth while, for me.

Any other information will certainly be appreciated.

Thanks for any and all replies.

We are currently on our own boat in the Chesapeake, so I don't know
where I will get to send this. But..

I've done two TAs but they were both in July and it was 50 years ago
when the ships were used for transportation. My husband has done a
number of Atlantic cruises courtesy of the USNavy - sometimes on a
destroyer or submarine but mostly on aircraft carriers. He was on one
North Atlantic cruise (in the winter) where the green water was
crashing over the flight deck and the ship broke the keel. It wasn't
scrapped for several years after that so I guess they fixed it.

We were on the NCL Crown in the middle of November to Bermuda and back
- this was at the time the smallest NCL ship and had no stabilizers.
On the way over it was rough, but we are not prone to seasickness so
it didn't bother us. On the way back it was like glass. My BIL went
on the same cruise the week before and it was rough both ways. The
following year, the Crown did a repositioning cruise in October-
November. We had to avoid Hurricane Wilma, but it was not as rough as
it was going to Bermuda the year before.

It makes a great deal of difference at what angle the ship takes the
waves. Going downwind, it's fairly comfortable. A ship will pound
going into the waves (depending on how far apart they are - if they
are closer together than the length of the ship, the bow will bury at
the bottom of the trough, but if they are farther apart, you will
hardly notice). If the waves are coming from the side the ship will
roll.