Water powered cars by 2009

Water-Powered Cars by 2009? Maybe.

water_engine.Cars running on water? Here's another group of scientists
who say yes, it's possible. Researchers from the University of
Minnesota and Israel's Weizman Institute of Science have figured out a
way to use the element Boron to coax water into producing hydrogen gas.
That, of course, is quite flammable and can be used to power an
internal combustion engine or a fuel cell. And the only emission? Boron
Oxide, which can be converted back into Boron and used again.

We've heard things like this before, to a hail of incredulous comments
and cries of "bull****!".

We've also heard of a guy in Australia who actually showed his
water-powered scooter running on Australian TV but wouldn't reveal how
it was done. And here it is again, and now they're saying we'll see a
prototype by 2009. This seems too good to be true. Will the oil
companies buy this out and kill it? Is this another fable, a la David
Mamet's The Water Engine?

Water Engine for Real? Scientists Say H20-to-Hydrogen System Could Be
Ready by Decade's End [Jalopnik]

Japan bought the copy right from an Australian inventor and now they are testing it I think?
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/fuelcell.html


wrote in message ps.com...
Water-Powered Cars by 2009? Maybe.

water_engine.Cars running on water? Here's another group of scientists
who say yes, it's possible. Researchers from the University of
Minnesota and Israel's Weizman Institute of Science have figured out a
way to use the element Boron to coax water into producing hydrogen gas.
That, of course, is quite flammable and can be used to power an
internal combustion engine or a fuel cell. And the only emission? Boron
Oxide, which can be converted back into Boron and used again.

We've heard things like this before, to a hail of incredulous comments
and cries of "bull****!".

We've also heard of a guy in Australia who actually showed his
water-powered scooter running on Australian TV but wouldn't reveal how
it was done. And here it is again, and now they're saying we'll see a
prototype by 2009. This seems too good to be true. Will the oil
companies buy this out and kill it? Is this another fable, a la David
Mamet's The Water Engine?

Water Engine for Real? Scientists Say H20-to-Hydrogen System Could Be
Ready by Decade's End [Jalopnik]

wrote:
Water-Powered Cars by 2009? Maybe.

water_engine.Cars running on water? Here's another group of scientists
who say yes, it's possible. Researchers from the University of
Minnesota and Israel's Weizman Institute of Science have figured out a
way to use the element Boron to coax water into producing hydrogen gas.
That, of course, is quite flammable and can be used to power an
internal combustion engine or a fuel cell. And the only emission? Boron
Oxide, which can be converted back into Boron and used again.

We've heard things like this before, to a hail of incredulous comments
and cries of "bull****!".

We've also heard of a guy in Australia who actually showed his
water-powered scooter running on Australian TV but wouldn't reveal how
it was done.

Because it was running on petrol.

And here it is again, and now they're saying we'll see a
prototype by 2009. This seems too good to be true.

Maybe, though, they'll have something going by 2012.
If so, they'll be putting boron in and taking B2O3 out.

That means it's running on boron. A good idea,
but no violation of natural law.


--- G. R. L. Cowan, former hydrogen fan
Boron: internal combustion, nuclear cachet:
http://www.eagle.ca/~gcowan/Paper_for_11th_CHC.html

wrote:

--- G. R. L. Cowan, former hydrogen fan
Boron: internal combustion, nuclear cachet:
http://www.eagle.ca/~gcowan/Paper_for_11th_CHC.html

Interesating paper. Thanks.

Wikipedia has a less technical article at
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directo...er_using_Boron

The Wiki article says that calculations predict that a car carrying 18
kilograms of boron and 45 litres of water could produce 5 kilograms of
hydrogen, the same energy content as a 40-litre tank of conventional
fuel.The article also says that Crystalline boron (99%) costs about
$5/g. Amorphous boron costs about $2/g, so one (40-litre conventional
fuel) tank's worth equivalent of 18 kg of boron would cost $9,000.00 at
$2/g.

After a drive to grandma's house, most of the boron would have been
converted to B2O3. The paper you cite says that elemental boron is
currently priced 23 to 400 times more for a pound without oxygen than
for a pound with, so the B2O3 might be worth between $25 and $400, vs.
the original $9000 cost of the 18kg of elemental boron. Processes
exist for recovering elemental boron from B203; the cost of applying
those processes would probably be roughly the difference in price
between B2O3 and the elemental boron, plus a bit -- somewhere between
$8500 and $9000, say. If service stations existed where B2O3 could be
exchanged for elemental boron (one would not wish to remove his car
from service and room with grandma while his boron charge was being
recycled), the cost to make that exchange might be about $10,000
($8500-$9000 plus a bit). That would be for the equivalent of filling
a 40 litre tank with conventional fuel.

schrieb
Wikipedia has a less technical article at
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directo...er_using_Boron

The Wiki article says that calculations predict that a car carrying 18
kilograms of boron and 45 litres of water could produce 5 kilograms of
hydrogen, the same energy content as a 40-litre tank of conventional
fuel.The article also says that Crystalline boron (99%) costs about
$5/g. Amorphous boron costs about $2/g, so one (40-litre conventional
fuel) tank's worth equivalent of 18 kg of boron would cost $9,000.00 at
$2/g.

18kg *$2000/kg = ...... ?

You didn't even check the calculations...

wrote:
Water-Powered Cars by 2009? Maybe.

water_engine.Cars running on water? Here's another group of scientists
who say yes, it's possible. Researchers from the University of
Minnesota and Israel's Weizman Institute of Science have figured out a
way to use the element Boron to coax water into producing hydrogen gas.
That, of course, is quite flammable and can be used to power an
internal combustion engine or a fuel cell. And the only emission? Boron
Oxide, which can be converted back into Boron and used again.

At an energy cost far greater than the energy it produced to drive the
car. Ever heard of "entropy"?

We've heard things like this before, to a hail of incredulous comments
and cries of "bull****!".

Are you ready????

Bull****.

better still to invent a model that is powered by AIR.


wrote in message
ps.com...
Water-Powered Cars by 2009? Maybe.

water_engine.Cars running on water? Here's another group of scientists
who say yes, it's possible. Researchers from the University of
Minnesota and Israel's Weizman Institute of Science have figured out a
way to use the element Boron to coax water into producing hydrogen gas.
That, of course, is quite flammable and can be used to power an
internal combustion engine or a fuel cell. And the only emission? Boron
Oxide, which can be converted back into Boron and used again.

We've heard things like this before, to a hail of incredulous comments
and cries of "bull****!".

We've also heard of a guy in Australia who actually showed his
water-powered scooter running on Australian TV but wouldn't reveal how
it was done. And here it is again, and now they're saying we'll see a
prototype by 2009. This seems too good to be true. Will the oil
companies buy this out and kill it? Is this another fable, a la David
Mamet's The Water Engine?

Water Engine for Real? Scientists Say H20-to-Hydrogen System Could Be
Ready by Decade's End [Jalopnik]

wrote:
wrote:

--- G. R. L. Cowan, former hydrogen fan
Boron: internal combustion, nuclear cachet:
http://www.eagle.ca/~gcowan/Paper_for_11th_CHC.html

Interesating paper. Thanks.

Wikipedia has a less technical article at
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directo...er_using_Boron

The Wiki article says that calculations predict that a car carrying 18
kilograms of boron and 45 litres of water could produce 5 kilograms of
hydrogen, the same energy content as a 40-litre tank of conventional
fuel.The article also says that Crystalline boron (99%) costs about
$5/g. Amorphous boron costs about $2/g, so one (40-litre conventional
fuel) tank's worth equivalent of 18 kg of boron would cost $9,000.00 at
$2/g.

After a drive to grandma's house, most of the boron would have been
converted to B2O3. The paper you cite says that elemental boron is
currently priced 23 to 400 times more for a pound without oxygen than
for a pound with, so the B2O3 might be worth between $25 and $400, vs.
the original $9000 cost of the 18kg of elemental boron. Processes
exist for recovering elemental boron from B203; the cost of applying
those processes would probably be roughly the difference in price
between B2O3 and the elemental boron, plus a bit -- somewhere between
$8500 and $9000, say. If service stations existed where B2O3 could be
exchanged for elemental boron (one would not wish to remove his car
from service and room with grandma while his boron charge was being
recycled), the cost to make that exchange might be about $10,000
($8500-$9000 plus a bit). That would be for the equivalent of filling
a 40 litre tank with conventional fuel.

For sure, deoxidation has to get cheaper.
But supposing it never did, it's interesting to
consider what a rich toy-buyer, think Jay Leno
with his purchase a year or two ago of an electric,
think it was a Li-ion electric, could get.

You mention service stations. But boron is more like
aluminum than it is like gasoline. Along with the boron-burning
car, the rich enthusiast could buy a lifetime supply of boron
for it, ~100 sacks of pellets, and stack them at the back
of his garage. If the garage burned down,
the sacks might burn away and spill the pellets,
but the pellets would still be good.


--- G. R. L. Cowan, former hydrogen fan
Boron: internal combustion, nuclear cachet:
http://www.eagle.ca/~gcowan/Paper_for_11th_CHC.html

"Tchiowa" wrote in message
ups.com...

wrote:
Water-Powered Cars by 2009? Maybe.

water_engine.Cars running on water? Here's another group of scientists
who say yes, it's possible. Researchers from the University of
Minnesota and Israel's Weizman Institute of Science have figured out a
way to use the element Boron to coax water into producing hydrogen gas.
That, of course, is quite flammable and can be used to power an
internal combustion engine or a fuel cell. And the only emission? Boron
Oxide, which can be converted back into Boron and used again.

At an energy cost far greater than the energy it produced to drive the
car. Ever heard of "entropy"?


The Law of Conservation of Energy would seem more relevant.

We've heard things like this before, to a hail of incredulous comments
and cries of "bull****!".

Are you ready????

Bull****.


Indeed.

"Thomas 'tmo' Endt" wrote in message ...

schrieb
Wikipedia has a less technical article at
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directo...er_using_Boron

The Wiki article says that calculations predict that a car carrying 18
kilograms of boron and 45 litres of water could produce 5 kilograms of
hydrogen, the same energy content as a 40-litre tank of conventional
fuel.The article also says that Crystalline boron (99%) costs about
$5/g. Amorphous boron costs about $2/g, so one (40-litre conventional
fuel) tank's worth equivalent of 18 kg of boron would cost $9,000.00 at
$2/g.

18kg *$2000/kg = ...... ?

You didn't even check the calculations...

More expensive than a single missile used by the Israel to bomb Lebanon?