Tanzania safari advice

Just checked out safaris in Tanzania and quite frankly am shocked at the
price gouging! $175 for double occupancy for mid-range accomodation??? (On
safari not elsewhere). Am I missing something? It is cheaper in Japan!
Is there any way to get this price down? Would there be any benefit to
staying in a lodge in Serengeti rather than doing the whole safari? Anyway
to get this cost down? We will be doing a world tour and want to make the
money last as long as possible.
Thanks!

Liz wrote:

Just checked out safaris in Tanzania and quite frankly am shocked at the
price gouging! $175 for double occupancy for mid-range accomodation???

Is that $ 175 p.p. per night? If you have extracted that from a safari
itinerary, and come up with that as an average, that's actually pretty fair.

Park fees (included in the itinerary) are $ 30 p.p. per day.
Your share of the cost of the Guide/driver and his vehicle would
be another $40 - $60 per day. The rate paid for the lodge is
full board - all meals included. And these places are out in the
remote areas, requiring that every item they use has to be
trucked in.

Then, the operator has his own markup added to pay for his
overhead, taxes, marketing and finally, some profit.
$175 p.p. per day for a complete safari package is a good
deal - not gouging.

On the other hand, if you are looking at $ 175 p.p. per night
for the lodge alone with no park fees, no Guide, no vehicle,
that is excessive.

In message
"Liz" wrote:

Just checked out safaris in Tanzania and quite frankly am shocked at the
price gouging!
^^^^^^^
What on earth does that mean?
I'll guess, in the context of what you write later...

$175 for double occupancy for mid-range accomodation???
Yes, but 'mid-range' is pretty good accommodation.


(On safari not elsewhere).
Of course.

Am I missing something? It is cheaper in Japan!
Yeah, but there aren't so many animals.
And the food's unspeakable.
My husband's been to Japan, and says there's no contest.
Only you can decide if the cost of safari is worth it to you.

Is there any way to get this price down? Would there be any benefit to
staying in a lodge in Serengeti rather than doing the whole safari?
I wouldn't have thought so, but that's for you only to decide.
The 'base price' will be less, but you'll have to pay individually for each
game drive, which mounts up.

Anyway to get this cost down?
You don't get what you don't pay for on safari.
The only way I would cut costs is to stay mid-range rather than top of the
range, which of course is what you were pricing anyway.

We will be doing a world tour and want to make the money last as long as
possible.
You can do a safari with a company which does basic camping.
Not for me, but each to her own.

You don't say when you would be in Tanzania, but be warned that the
Serengeti has a disappointing amount of game from Mid-July - end October.
If that's when you'll be there, seriously consider going to the Masai Mara
(Kenya tends to be a bit cheaper) instead (where the migration is then), or
to Ngorongoro rather than Serengeti.

Everything Dave has written is correct.

Liz

--
Virtual Liz at http://www.v-liz.co.uk
Kenya; Tanzania; India; Seychelles
New Aug '03: Namibia
"I speak of Africa and golden joys"

Dave wrote:
Park fees (included in the itinerary) are $ 30 p.p. per day.
Your share of the cost of the Guide/driver and his vehicle would
be another $40 - $60 per day.

I can understand $30 pp per day for park entry fees -- I'm paying to see
wildlife and (I would assume) that money will go towards helping preserve
it. Don't object to safari companies taking a cut either.
What I don't understand is the 40-60 bucks per day for guide/driver fees
(this is close to what I calculated as well). These tours are based on a
*minimum* of 5 people. That means that two people are getting about $250 a
day or $125 each - at least. The average daily wage in America is $100 a
day. In 5 days the guide and the driver are going to earn the average
Tanzanian annual wage, which is $600.
If someone went to America and participated in a tour where the guides made
$26,600 a week (the ave. annual income in the US) plus a tip, I'm pretty
sure they'd think it was gouging too.
I call it gouging because in no other developing country, have I come across
guides making North American wages. While I don't believe they should make
the average weekly wage (which is only $11), I do think American wages is
pushing it.
Just my opinion.
Liz

In message
"Liz" wrote:

Dave wrote:
Park fees (included in the itinerary) are $ 30 p.p. per day.
Your share of the cost of the Guide/driver and his vehicle would
be another $40 - $60 per day.


What I don't understand is the 40-60 bucks per day for guide/driver fees
(this is close to what I calculated as well).

Did you read what Dave said?
"Guide/driver *and his vehicle*"
So that includes an expensive vehicle and its maintenance and the petrol
(distances are quite big, there's a lot of stop/starting and slow 'crawling'
in the Parks and the vehicles go through a lot of fuel).

Tracks are rough, and the vehicles take a lot of pounding.
Good companies change vehicles at least every three years, some more often.
AIUI, the Tanzanian driver/guides (it's usually one person) gets about
20-25US$ per day plus tip (probably varies by company). And they don't by
any means work steadily all year round. They might be out all the time in
the high season, hardly seeing their families then, but in the off-season,
they might not work for weeks.
A good driver/guide is the one single factor that will 'make' your safari,
and is the area I'd least want to skimp on, together with a reliable
company, with enough flexibility to be able to deal with the unforeseen.

That's the price. If it isn't worth it *to you*, choose somewhere else.

Liz
--
Virtual Liz at http://www.v-liz.co.uk
Kenya; Tanzania; India; Seychelles
New Aug '03: Namibia
"I speak of Africa and golden joys"

Liz wrote:

What I don't understand is the 40-60 bucks per day for guide/driver fees
(this is close to what I calculated as well). These tours are based on a
*minimum* of 5 people. That means that two people are getting about $250 a
day or $125 each - at least. In 5 days the guide and the driver are going to
earn the average Tanzanian annual wage, which is $600.
If someone went to America and participated in a tour where the guides made
$26,600 a week (the ave. annual income in the US) plus a tip, I'm pretty
sure they'd think it was gouging too.

OK - let's talk about it. The Guide/driver with you doesn't get that money.
They're paid a salary of no more than $250 - $300 a month and depend on tips
for the rest of their income. And believe me, they do NOT work every week.
Far from it. If they have some work every month, they are fortunate.

The money goes to the safari company. They imported the vehicle, with a 100%
duty added to the cost. Toyota Land Cruisers
have become the vehicle of choice for Tanzania operators - not the ones
that look like the Lexus.. no, the model that resembles a Land Rover.

If it's a (for example) $50K vehicle, then it costs $100K when it is in the
country. At that point, there are additional expenses to modify it with
the pop-up roof, special seats, 2-way radios, plus all the licenses, insurance.

Then it goes on the road, rarely seeing pavement. Almost all of its time
will be spent on dirt roads, some of them rugged. Maintenance is
a constant expense - and every part that is needed also has to be
imported with a 100% duty.

Bottom line: the safari business in east Africa is really a transportation
business - and you should always choose an operator that is good at it.
That way, you are going to be seeing your wildlife in a late-model,
well-maintained vehicle that won't break down at the most inopportune
time in the middle of the Serengeti. And because the operator is
successful with his business, his Guides will also be good ones - who will
earn the tip you generously and gladly give them at the end of the trip.

Finally, it is common for a vehicle to leave on safari with 2 clients - not 5.
You see them every day in Tanzania (or Kenya).
All of the operators who are friends of mine do not impose minimums.
If they have 5 clients in the vehicle - that's a way to actually make some
money. The safaris that go out with 2 will perhaps break even.

In message
Liz wrote:


AIUI, the Tanzanian driver/guides (it's usually one person) gets about
20-25US$ per day plus tip
Sorry, that should have been *including* tip.

Liz

--
Virtual Liz at http://www.v-liz.co.uk
Kenya; Tanzania; India; Seychelles
New Aug '03: Namibia
"I speak of Africa and golden joys"

Dave wrote:
OK - let's talk about it. The Guide/driver with you doesn't get that
money.
They're paid a salary of no more than $250 - $300 a month and depend on
tips...
Bottom line: the safari business in east Africa is really a transportation
business - and you should always choose an operator that is good at it.

Dave,
Thank you very much for patiently (and not snarkily) explaining this to me.
I had no idea that the vehicles were that expensive, nor that the majority
of travel in them was not on "roads" as I would know them (I figured mostly
not in the parks, but assumed that the roads between Arusha and the northern
parks were in halfway decent condition).
I have never been anywhere near Africa so have no idea what it is like, and
apologize for my ignorance. Based on treks in other developing countries,
and the fact that a safari in India costs about $40 a day, plus say another
$25 for accomadation (pp), I had thought the $175 for Tanzania unreasonably
high.
I think it is obvious that the wildlife will be better in Tanzania. It is
my dream to watch giraffes on the Serengeti so I had planned to go anyway.
Not having understood all of the costs invovled I had thought that the
safari business was just grabbing money from tourists and I was just hoping
that there were cheaper options. I see now that the prices quoted are
reasonable based on all the costs involved.
Thank you again for your explanation. If you have any recommendations for
mid-range safari operators I would appreciate them. I am interested in the
Serengeti and Ngorongoro Crater, and figure I would need 5 days to see these
properly (please advise if this is not correct). Not sure what season we
would go in (trip route is dependant on what is happening with the
Pakistani-Indian border), but am planning to go 2005 or early 2006.
Liz
Liz

And thanks, Liz, for your patience as well.

Liz in England gave the best advice about the
season to be in the Serengeti - from January
to July. But - rains are likely to bother you in
April.. from late March to early May, we think
of as the 'long' rains. Lodge rates remain 'low'
season till the end of June, for most places, so
I suggest a late May/into June time.

There are campsites that camping operators use,
and this sort of safari reduces costs for those who
are comfortable with that. Might be a good idea to
post here, asking for information from those who
have camped in TZ. But you still have the $30 park
fee each day, plus your share of the vehicle costs.

People sometime ask about doing the trips in vehicles
they rent themselves. This is just plain naive. Getting
lost is guaranteed. Plus, facing the stress of trying
NOT to get lost is the worst way to travel in Africa.

I did a quick search of possible camping programs
and this one http://www.biztravel.com/TRAVEL/SIT/sit_pages/5642.html
still works out more costly than the figures you have.

A recommendation? Bushbuck Safaris is my land operator
the http://www.bushbuckltd.com/
When you are closer to making your trip, you could
check with them.

Good luck!

In message
Dave Patterson wrote:

I did a quick search of possible camping programs
and this one http://www.biztravel.com/TRAVEL/SIT/sit_pages/5642.html
still works out more costly than the figures you have.

Yes, I looked at two brochures I have here, and the camping was more
expensive, which is why I didn't post. But these ones were supported
camping: although the tents were small pop-up type, the camp staff do all
the chores. I think you can also do participatory safaris where you have to
cook, wash up, pitch and strike the tents, and surely that will be cheaper,
but I don't have any info.

I forgot about the rainy season!

Liz (in Scotland)

--
Virtual Liz at http://www.v-liz.co.uk
Kenya; Tanzania; India; Seychelles
New Aug '03: Namibia
"I speak of Africa and golden joys"