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Passengers Aboard Flight Delayed 18 Hours



 
 
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  #21  
Old December 30th, 2004, 11:53 PM
Malcolm Weir
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On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 06:57:31 -0700, "Larry R Harrison Jr"
wrote:


My question is: isn't this kidnapping?


Nope. Not even close.

And it's not even unlawful imprisonment, which fits the reported facts
better.

It seems it surely could be called that.


Only by those who don't understand what was happening.

What it was effectively was detention on behalf of the immigration
authorities.

Another thing--I recently flew (I rarely do) and I was fortunate to be
seated next to the emergency exit. Couldn't someone have just opened that
and taken off? One thing is for sure--that is absolutely what I would have
done.


Gosh. And then you'd be off to federal court for being naughty.

Really.

Plus you'd get a honking great bill from the airline.

It's ridiculous to think anyone is supposed to just sit there & wait
18 HOURS while they straighten out their own nonsense.


That's *exactly* what people are supposed to do...

Comments?


Unhappy? Sue. It's the American way.

LRH


Malc.
  #22  
Old December 31st, 2004, 12:05 AM
Malcolm Weir
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 10:03:31 -0700, "Larry R Harrison Jr"
wrote:


"AJC" wrote in message
news
I wonder if the emergency slides will have been disengaged, if so the
jump from a DC10 door to the ground would most likely lead to broken
bones. In any case don't forget this happened in the US. With the
state of nervousness there, the likely presence of armed air marshalls
on the aircraft, and almost certainly the presence of armed police on
the ground, opening a door and jumping out could well be the last
action you took.
--==++AJC++==--


And that would be KIDNAPPING.


No, it wouldn't.

It *might* be unlawful detention, but in fact it's lawful detention.

To not allow me to leave unless I'm under
questioning for having committed a crime, or I'm under oath in court giving
crucial testimony, or I'm at work performing a delicate life-dependent type
of occupation, those things excepted--to not allow me to leave is flat-out
KIDNAPPING, I don't care what the law says.


Then you're stupid. Using legal terms and then claiming you don't
care what the law says is the mark of an idiot.

How can we get this changed?


1. Elect a sane president.

(Oops.)

2. Persuade Congress to relax the immigration laws.

(Oops.)

LRH


Malc.
  #23  
Old December 31st, 2004, 12:07 AM
Malcolm Weir
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 14:09:49 -0700, "Larry R Harrison Jr"
wrote:

"Casey" wrote in message
hlink.net...

Before the Patriot Act
was passed, you would simply have been arrested and charged with
some minor federal offense.


And I'm arguing that even THAT shouldn't happen, Patriot Act or no. Since
when is getting off a plane which has landed where you're headed such a huge
offense?


It's two huge offenses (at least).

1. It's a violation of border security (immigration laws).
2. It's a violation of airport security (FARs).

If so, this country went to hell in a handbasket LONG before the
Patriot Act.


I think your brain went to hell in a handbasket a while ago.

The solution is to try to sue everyone in sight. The traditional
American way...

LRH


Malc.
  #24  
Old December 31st, 2004, 12:07 AM
Malcolm Weir
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Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 14:09:49 -0700, "Larry R Harrison Jr"
wrote:

"Casey" wrote in message
hlink.net...

Before the Patriot Act
was passed, you would simply have been arrested and charged with
some minor federal offense.


And I'm arguing that even THAT shouldn't happen, Patriot Act or no. Since
when is getting off a plane which has landed where you're headed such a huge
offense?


It's two huge offenses (at least).

1. It's a violation of border security (immigration laws).
2. It's a violation of airport security (FARs).

If so, this country went to hell in a handbasket LONG before the
Patriot Act.


I think your brain went to hell in a handbasket a while ago.

The solution is to try to sue everyone in sight. The traditional
American way...

LRH


Malc.
  #25  
Old December 31st, 2004, 02:38 AM
vite Francia
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Casey" wrote in message
link.net...
I wonder if the emergency slides will have been disengaged, if so the
jump from a DC10 door to the ground would most likely lead to
broken bones. In any case don't forget this happened in the US. With
the state of nervousness there, the likely presence of armed air
marshalls
on the aircraft, and almost certainly the presence of armed police on
the ground, opening a door and jumping out could well be the last
action you took.
--==++AJC++==--


And that would be KIDNAPPING. To not allow me to leave unless I'm
under questioning for having committed a crime, or I'm under oath in
court giving crucial testimony, or I'm at work performing a delicate
life-
dependent type of occupation, those things excepted--to not allow me to
leave is flat-out KIDNAPPING, I don't care what the law says.
How can we get this changed?


You are hopelessly naive. Try reading the actual text of the Patriot Act.
Your government now has the right to declare anyone - including USA
citizens - as an enemy, and therefore to send them to Cuba or any-
where else it deems necessary.


Hot damn! If Governor Arnold doesn't like me he'll send me to Gitmo!

AJC is right. Before the Patriot Act
was passed, you would simply have been arrested and charged with
some minor federal offense. Now you just might be incommunicado
for years.


It's interesting that those who are consumed by
hatred of America completely ignore similar actions
by other countries. In fact, many America-haters
appear to have been driven insane with rage. For
instance, there's a certain resident of Quebec who
prefers to spend his waking hours obsessing about
the US on Usenet rather than securing a job.

Oh, Canada! "OTTAWA - Security certificates used
to detain suspected terrorists indefinitely for months
without charge are constitutional, the Federal Court
of Appeal ruled Friday."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J1553112A

Hello, guv! "Britain's highest court on Thursday
harshly condemned one of the most hotly disputed
elements of the country's anti-terrorist strategy _ a
law allowing some foreign suspects to be locked up
indefinitely with no charge."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1652212A

Merde! "...in France, where four prisoners from the
(Guantanamo) naval base were arrested as soon as
they arrived home in July, and haven't been heard
from since. Under French law, they could remain
locked up for as long as three years while authorities
decide whether to put them on trial -- a legal limbo that
their attorneys charge is not much different than what
they faced at Guantanamo."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...nguage=printer

Now that you know about this, I'm sure you'll start
spamming various newsgroups about the abuses of
the French legal system with equal fervor. Get busy!


  #26  
Old December 31st, 2004, 02:38 AM
vite Francia
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Casey" wrote in message
link.net...
I wonder if the emergency slides will have been disengaged, if so the
jump from a DC10 door to the ground would most likely lead to
broken bones. In any case don't forget this happened in the US. With
the state of nervousness there, the likely presence of armed air
marshalls
on the aircraft, and almost certainly the presence of armed police on
the ground, opening a door and jumping out could well be the last
action you took.
--==++AJC++==--


And that would be KIDNAPPING. To not allow me to leave unless I'm
under questioning for having committed a crime, or I'm under oath in
court giving crucial testimony, or I'm at work performing a delicate
life-
dependent type of occupation, those things excepted--to not allow me to
leave is flat-out KIDNAPPING, I don't care what the law says.
How can we get this changed?


You are hopelessly naive. Try reading the actual text of the Patriot Act.
Your government now has the right to declare anyone - including USA
citizens - as an enemy, and therefore to send them to Cuba or any-
where else it deems necessary.


Hot damn! If Governor Arnold doesn't like me he'll send me to Gitmo!

AJC is right. Before the Patriot Act
was passed, you would simply have been arrested and charged with
some minor federal offense. Now you just might be incommunicado
for years.


It's interesting that those who are consumed by
hatred of America completely ignore similar actions
by other countries. In fact, many America-haters
appear to have been driven insane with rage. For
instance, there's a certain resident of Quebec who
prefers to spend his waking hours obsessing about
the US on Usenet rather than securing a job.

Oh, Canada! "OTTAWA - Security certificates used
to detain suspected terrorists indefinitely for months
without charge are constitutional, the Federal Court
of Appeal ruled Friday."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J1553112A

Hello, guv! "Britain's highest court on Thursday
harshly condemned one of the most hotly disputed
elements of the country's anti-terrorist strategy _ a
law allowing some foreign suspects to be locked up
indefinitely with no charge."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1652212A

Merde! "...in France, where four prisoners from the
(Guantanamo) naval base were arrested as soon as
they arrived home in July, and haven't been heard
from since. Under French law, they could remain
locked up for as long as three years while authorities
decide whether to put them on trial -- a legal limbo that
their attorneys charge is not much different than what
they faced at Guantanamo."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...nguage=printer

Now that you know about this, I'm sure you'll start
spamming various newsgroups about the abuses of
the French legal system with equal fervor. Get busy!


  #27  
Old December 31st, 2004, 03:12 AM
Jimmy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Unhappy? Sue. It's the American way.
LRH
Malc.

==========
You can fle a class-action lawsuit. Try Stan Chesly in Cincinnati(OOPS)
he's probably busy with the lawsuits against Comair and USAir.

  #28  
Old December 31st, 2004, 04:03 AM
Gregory Morrow
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


vite Francia wrote:

"Casey" wrote in message
link.net...
I wonder if the emergency slides will have been disengaged, if so the
jump from a DC10 door to the ground would most likely lead to
broken bones. In any case don't forget this happened in the US. With
the state of nervousness there, the likely presence of armed air
marshalls
on the aircraft, and almost certainly the presence of armed police on
the ground, opening a door and jumping out could well be the last
action you took.
--==++AJC++==--

And that would be KIDNAPPING. To not allow me to leave unless I'm
under questioning for having committed a crime, or I'm under oath in
court giving crucial testimony, or I'm at work performing a delicate
life-
dependent type of occupation, those things excepted--to not allow me to
leave is flat-out KIDNAPPING, I don't care what the law says.
How can we get this changed?


You are hopelessly naive. Try reading the actual text of the Patriot

Act.
Your government now has the right to declare anyone - including USA
citizens - as an enemy, and therefore to send them to Cuba or any-
where else it deems necessary.


Hot damn! If Governor Arnold doesn't like me he'll send me to Gitmo!

AJC is right. Before the Patriot Act
was passed, you would simply have been arrested and charged with
some minor federal offense. Now you just might be incommunicado
for years.


It's interesting that those who are consumed by
hatred of America completely ignore similar actions
by other countries. In fact, many America-haters
appear to have been driven insane with rage. For
instance, there's a certain resident of Quebec who
prefers to spend his waking hours obsessing about
the US on Usenet rather than securing a job.

Oh, Canada! "OTTAWA - Security certificates used
to detain suspected terrorists indefinitely for months
without charge are constitutional, the Federal Court
of Appeal ruled Friday."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J1553112A

Hello, guv! "Britain's highest court on Thursday
harshly condemned one of the most hotly disputed
elements of the country's anti-terrorist strategy _ a
law allowing some foreign suspects to be locked up
indefinitely with no charge."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1652212A

Merde! "...in France, where four prisoners from the
(Guantanamo) naval base were arrested as soon as
they arrived home in July, and haven't been heard
from since. Under French law, they could remain
locked up for as long as three years while authorities
decide whether to put them on trial -- a legal limbo that
their attorneys charge is not much different than what
they faced at Guantanamo."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...nguage=printer

Now that you know about this, I'm sure you'll start
spamming various newsgroups about the abuses of
the French legal system with equal fervor. Get busy!



Thanks for the info!

--
Best
Greg



  #29  
Old December 31st, 2004, 07:23 AM
Larry R Harrison Jr
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Malcolm Weir" wrote in message
...

That's *exactly* what people are supposed to do...


Why? Don't they have a life to live? Just WHY--why--are they supposed to do
that? To satisfy beaucratic paperwork? To fulfill a technicality in the law?

We're going to be imprisoned and kidnapped to fulfill technicalities and
paperwork?

Unless you can give me a better reason than that, I still say it's
kidnapping.

LRH


  #30  
Old December 31st, 2004, 07:24 AM
Larry R Harrison Jr
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Malcolm Weir" wrote in message
...

I think your brain went to hell in a handbasket a while ago.


Who gives a **** what you think? I was just trying to understand how
something like this is okay and tolerable, I was not asking for sarcasm from
a smart-ass.

LRH


 




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