Ryanair ripoff

tim..... wrote:

"Tim C." wrote in message
.. .
[ryanair]
I'm pretty sure it used to be a per-card charge.

It did, but that was before Ryanair were told that they couldn't exclude
compulsory charges from the headline price. So they simply increased the
optional charges up to rip-off levels, knowing that most people can't
actually avoid them.

Ryanair's whole MO is centred around being able to advertise the fare at 1
penny and adding things on to make the price that you pay 50 pounds.

Given that IME Ryanair are almost always the lowest total cost anyway
(assuming you are happy to fly to the out of the way airport), I don't
understand what they think this achieves.

I think it fools people into thinking that the 'cost' is lower, and even
if that is often true, it helps to reinforce the idea.

I think the power lies with us, as consumers, to overcome it, just as we
should see a 9.99 purchase as costing 10.

--
(*) of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
www.davidhorne.net (email address on website)
"The fact is that when I compose I never think of and never
have thought of meeting the listener." -George Perle

Martin wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:21:42 +0000, (David Horne) wrote:

Tom P wrote:

David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*) wrote:
Martin wrote:

On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:18:02 +0000, (David Horne,
_the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:
[]
Ironically, Ryanair while having a laugh at the law, is closer to it
than some other airlines, many of which have no way of paying for the
ticket for free.
As a matter of principle I don't use Amsterdam (Maastricht) or Amsterdam
(Charleroi) )

Oddly, while Ryanair usually fly from nowhere to nowhere, my recent
trips with them have all been from where I was leaving (Manchester or
Liverpool) to where I was going- Madrid, Dublin, Riga, Marseilles,
Alghero, _Treviso_!

Weeze is definitely the exception for recent trips...

Have you tried Air Berlin? They seem to be cheap.

I'll try any carrier if they're cheap!

They've never suited me on routes from Manchester when I've tried them.
For instance, the early March trip to Bonn- similarly 'easy' from either
Paderborn or Weeze, but Air Berlin is 108 euro, Ryanair 32...

. . that Ryanair 32¤ will have trebled by the time you get the bill
though.

I've never not known exactly what I was paying to Ryanair.

Other than the total?

Huh? Only Tom P is claiming he didn't know how much he was being charged
when he clicked to buy the ticket.

--
(*) of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
www.davidhorne.net (email address on website)
"The fact is that when I compose I never think of and never
have thought of meeting the listener." -George Perle

Martin wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:21:42 +0000, (David Horne) wrote:

Martin wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 12:33:40 +0000, (David Horne) wrote:

Martin wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:17:28 +0100, Tom P wrote:
[]
Quite my point. I fail to see how they they can apply a cc charge per
passenger on a single cc transaction.

They rely on you not going to court, but that doesn't stop you from
complaining to the EU.

On what basis would you complain?

A credit card transaction doesn't cost any supplier the amount that Tom was
charged.

And Ryanair's response to any legal action would be to laugh. They don't
claim they are passing on the exact cost of the transaction.

A CC transaction cost is the same whether it is one or 50 booked at the
same time and whether the ticket is a single or a return.
http://www.eubusiness.com/Transport/airline-tickets.02 "Clear Pricing:
the price first advertised on a website should be a final "price"
Misleading indication of price

We've been through this already in the thread. The first price is a
final price, depending on how you pay, your nationality and whether you
have luggage. I don't think Ryanair would lose sleep over that one.

Additional charges not indicated initially a taxes 42% of cases,
booking fee 21%, credit card charges 13% ."

The Ryanair price advertised on their front page includes tax.

but not credit card charges.

Because they have one card that incurs no charges. Simple as that.

--
(*) of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
www.davidhorne.net (email address on website)
"The fact is that when I compose I never think of and never
have thought of meeting the listener." -George Perle

Martin wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:21:43 +0000, (David Horne) wrote:

Martin wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 12:48:43 +0000, (David Horne) wrote:

Tom P wrote:

Bartc wrote:

"Tom P" wrote in message
...
After booking a flight for 3 adults for a total of 201.60¤, the email
confirmation arrived:

PAYMENT DETAILS

********59.94 EUR Total Fare

*******141.66 EUR Taxes, Fees & Charges

********30.00 EUR Passenger Fee: CC

*******231.60 EUR Total Paid


30 Euros Passenger fee? For using a credit card? Is this still legal?

I count on a Ryanair return trip from UK to Europe costing £50 (or £75
if checking baggage), plus whatever the 'fare' is.

Then you don't get so many surprises.

(This includes a credit card fee of £8 (£4 per leg). Probably this is
also charged per passenger, which is a bit of a swindle as it is after
all a single transaction, and a debit card fee would not be that much.
But that's how Ryanair work)


Quite my point. I fail to see how they they can apply a cc charge per
passenger on a single cc transaction.

They can charge exactly what they want.

No they can't they can charge what a CC transaction costs if that is
what they itemise the cost as.

They don't itemise it as the transaction cost. They call it a fee. It's
the same thing as a 'fuel surcharge' in that regard, and that's why they
can make the figure whatever they want.

Just like some airlines charge
exactly what they want for fuel surcharges and taxes and fees.

Just like the fact that a 500ml bottle of San Pellegrino costs £1.39 at
the WH Smith in my local train station, but at the Sainsburys in the
same station it costs 55p. They charge what they can get away with.

No they can't. The EU offers consumer protection against this sort of
practice.

What sort of practice?

Ryanair are imposing a fee. They're not claiming it's the real cost. You
as a consumer can buy the ticket or not.

The EU is already taking action against airlines like Ryanair. The guy
thinks he is above the law. He isn't.


It's not rocket science- the airlines play these games to a) try and
confuse consumers and b) make it look as though they are the victims of
evil airports, governments and oil companies.

Luckily- it's very easy to beat them at their game. When you book a
ticket, calculate the _total_ cost and don't compartmentalise the
different parts of the airline 'fare.'

It's more effective to let the EU give them a fine they won't forget in a
hurry.

They haven't managed to do so thus far. I find it easy enough to
calculate the total cost.

because you have flown with Ryanair many times.

Absolutely not. I calculated the cost the very first time, before buying
a ticket with them. Despite claims from Tom P, you know what the price
of the ticket is before you buy it. If you didn't, _that_ would be
illegal.

--
(*) of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
www.davidhorne.net (email address on website)
"The fact is that when I compose I never think of and never
have thought of meeting the listener." -George Perle

Martin wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:13:56 +0000, (David Horne) wrote:

Martin wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:21:42 +0000, (David Horne) wrote:

Tom P wrote:
[]
. . that Ryanair 32¤ will have trebled by the time you get the bill
though.

I've never not known exactly what I was paying to Ryanair.

Other than the total?

Huh? Only Tom P is claiming he didn't know how much he was being charged
when he clicked to buy the ticket.

Your comment is ambiguous.

Surely not. I've never _not_ known exactly... etc.

--
(*) of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
www.davidhorne.net (email address on website)
"The fact is that when I compose I never think of and never
have thought of meeting the listener." -George Perle

Martin wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:14:04 +0000, (David Horne) wrote:

Martin wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:21:42 +0000, (David Horne) wrote:
[]
The Ryanair price advertised on their front page includes tax.

but not credit card charges.

Because they have one card that incurs no charges. Simple as that.

Not simple, they make excessive even outrageous charges for use of other
cards.

Can you find me the EU law which says that that's illegal? Other
airlines make excessive even outrageous fuel surcharges.

--
(*) of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
www.davidhorne.net (email address on website)
"The fact is that when I compose I never think of and never
have thought of meeting the listener." -George Perle

Martin wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:14:06 +0000, (David Horne) wrote:

Martin wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:21:43 +0000, (David Horne) wrote:
[]
They haven't managed to do so thus far. I find it easy enough to
calculate the total cost.

because you have flown with Ryanair many times.

Absolutely not. I calculated the cost the very first time, before buying
a ticket with them. Despite claims from Tom P, you know what the price
of the ticket is before you buy it. If you didn't, _that_ would be
illegal.

It's illegal because all the costs have to be up front on page 1 not
hidden in a FAQ ffs.

FFS, all the costs _can't_ be upfront, because all the costs _differ_.
Otherwise, it would similarly be illegal to advertise prices without
including luggage costs, of costs for assigned seats, or window seats,
and so on, forever. They advertise the lowest possible cost in their
pricing, er, structure. It's legal. If EU legislators don't like it,
then they have to manufacture a different law.

--
(*) of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
www.davidhorne.net (email address on website)
"The fact is that when I compose I never think of and never
have thought of meeting the listener." -George Perle

Martin wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:47:54 +0000, (David Horne) wrote:

Martin wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:14:06 +0000, (David Horne) wrote:

Martin wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:21:43 +0000, (David Horne)
wrote: []
They haven't managed to do so thus far. I find it easy enough to
calculate the total cost.

because you have flown with Ryanair many times.

Absolutely not. I calculated the cost the very first time, before buying
a ticket with them. Despite claims from Tom P, you know what the price
of the ticket is before you buy it. If you didn't, _that_ would be
illegal.

It's illegal because all the costs have to be up front on page 1 not
hidden in a FAQ ffs.

FFS, all the costs _can't_ be upfront, because all the costs _differ_.
Otherwise, it would similarly be illegal to advertise prices without
including luggage costs, of costs for assigned seats, or window seats,
and so on, forever. They advertise the lowest possible cost in their
pricing, er, structure. It's legal. If EU legislators don't like it,
then they have to manufacture a different law.

The EU makes standards and directives, individual EU countries make
legislation to enforce these. The UK has embedded the EU standard in its
law of Internet sales Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations
of 2000.

This started because of the claim that a German user didn't know what
the total cost of his flight was. Meanwhile, I have no problem
understanding what Ryanair charge me for a ticket.

--
(*) of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
www.davidhorne.net (email address on website)
"The fact is that when I compose I never think of and never
have thought of meeting the listener." -George Perle

Martin wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:47:54 +0000, (David Horne) wrote:

Martin wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:14:06 +0000, (David Horne) wrote:

Martin wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:21:43 +0000, (David Horne)
wrote:
[]
They haven't managed to do so thus far. I find it easy enough to
calculate the total cost.

because you have flown with Ryanair many times.

Absolutely not. I calculated the cost the very first time, before buying
a ticket with them. Despite claims from Tom P, you know what the price
of the ticket is before you buy it. If you didn't, _that_ would be
illegal.

It's illegal because all the costs have to be up front on page 1 not
hidden in a FAQ ffs.

FFS, all the costs _can't_ be upfront, because all the costs _differ_.
Otherwise, it would similarly be illegal to advertise prices without
including luggage costs, of costs for assigned seats, or window seats,
and so on, forever.

The stuff that Ryanair hides at level two under "FAQ".

They hide it under "Ryanair fees."

They advertise the lowest possible cost in their
pricing, er, structure. It's legal. If EU legislators don't like it,
then they have to manufacture a different law.

All the optional costs can be shown at level one. It's not rocket science.

Except they don't have to. If the EU want, they can force operators to
do so.

--
(*) of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
www.davidhorne.net (email address on website)
"The fact is that when I compose I never think of and never
have thought of meeting the listener." -George Perle

On Jan 21, 10:07*am, Tom P wrote:
After booking a flight for 3 adults for a total of 201.60€, the email
confirmation arrived:

PAYMENT DETAILS

********59.94 EUR Total Fare

*******141.66 EUR Taxes, Fees & Charges

********30.00 EUR Passenger Fee: CC

*******231.60 EUR Total Paid

30 Euros Passenger fee? For using a credit card? Is this still legal?

T.

Interestingly, one time I asked at the Stuttgart airport about buying
a ticket on Germanwings in person to avoid the (I believe at that
time) 3€ credit card charge. It cost 8€ if doing a transaction in
person!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I said no thanks.

George