Immigration patrols on domestic Amtrak

On Jul 16, 2:57 pm, Merritt Mullen wrote:
In article ,
"tim....." wrote:
If they were taught to use their manners when they
first talked with people and only go into 'agressive'
mode when you give the wrong answers, people might
be more sympathetic about the job that they have to do.

Why do you think that is not the case? Have you had a bad experience?

I once had more to declare than they normally let in (which lead me to
believe I might have to pay taxes or duties, since that's what we do
when going into Canada with too much stuff). It wasn't major, I was
declaring $280 US, and I think the maximum was supposed to be $200 US.
I was flagged for secondary and the PIL officer said, "we just need to
have a look at that stuff you're bringing." That suited me all fine.

Next thing I know, the gestapo is standing beside my car (it's 40
below, the window is open 2 inches because it was so cold outside,
which they didn't seem to say anything about), and I'm being peppered
with questions and not even being given time to answer one officer
before the next throws a question at me. Then they tell me I'm not
answering their questions.

For anyone who knows me well, I have a degenerative nervous disorder
and stress triggers me into fits when these sorts of things happen.
Let's just say that I had my bad times at work from stress, but not
every day. So I think I have a backbone that if I'm being broken by a
few questions it must be pretty serious. I was very upset about not
being given a chance to say anything, and a PI would say, "if you have
a talkative subject, let them talk, they'll likely put their foot in
their mouth."

When most of the officers took off, and one was left to babysit, I was
actually able to talk to this guy, tell him how upset his co-workers
made me, explain my illness, tell him what I was doing, etc. We had a
nice 20 minute chat while waiting for the search garage to become
available, and by the time it came to that, he was really sorry he had
to even look at my stuff. He told me he was sorry I was treated so
harshly, but they thought they were "protecting America", and hadn't
given me a chance to prove I was just some high-strung visitor who had
gifts for a friend, so to speak.

So that's my bad experience... which turned out alright because they
aren't all like that, but if there's one thing that upsets me more
than anything, is being hammered with questions and not being able to
answer them in turn, and then being accused as a result... Since I
don't have problems with the law, it's safe to say I'm not used to
being treated this way. Even our internal security at my former jobs
didn't interrogate us like that when they wanted information.

S.

Those rules changed around 1998-99. If you're a foreign national
without a residence in the US, you can open a checking account. I
think you need a Fed-ITIN to open a savings account or anything
bearing interests (which means the bank will request you to provide
one, and you use the letter to get one from the IRS, I'm not sure if
they hand those out for no good reason, or if a foreign national who
does not reside in the US can get one... Never tried to get one). I do
have a checking account without an SSN, and I have no address within
in the US either, not even a vacation home.

Unfortunately Immigration and Customs are not aware that you can get a
bank account without an SSN. I know this first hand because in 2006,
when I tried to cross, I was questioned about having this account, and
how I opened it. I was referred to the Immigration Supervisor who told
me in his memos it indicates a foreign national cannot open an account
unless they have a SSN or Fed-ITIN. He said, "if you managed to get
this without an SSN and don't need one, get a notorized letter from
your bank to prove it to us next time." So basically they let me go
because they had nothing else on me... but it added yet another one-
time black mark on me. I've had that stupid letter with me on every
trip, and no one has asked to see it. They've even looked in my purse
twice and the officer found the bank statement and looked at it, and
it never occurred to him to ask "if I have an address in Canada, why a
checking account in the US?"

It's amazing the stuff that happens ONCE that never ever happens
again... it seems like when I'm prepared to answer a question, they've
found something new to bug me about. I'm really scared to know what
they've typed into that computer about me...

S.

On Jul 16, 3:55 pm, "Adam H. Kerman" wrote:
Assuming the alien isn't committing document fraud, it's no longer
possible to get an SSN unless he holds a Green Card (lawful permanent
resident alien who may work). Previously, it was possible for any alien
to get an SSN to open a bank account, but that changed when IRS began
issuing taxpayer identification numbers directly to foreign nationals
ineligible for SSNs. Until a few years ago, aliens could obtain SSNs to
get driver's licenses, but that ended eventually. Aliens ineligible to
work used to be issued SSNs from a special series of numbers and had
Social Security cards that stated they were ineligible to work. If the
alien became a lawful permanent resident, he could no longer use the
special SSN and had to re-apply for a normal SSN.

When Social Security stopped issuing SSNs to resident aliens ineligible
to work, it took my state several years to change the law requiring an
applicant for a driver's license to have an SSN. So we had lots of
aliens driving without licenses during that period. Brilliant.

On 2007-07-22 17:21:46 -0400, Sapphyre said:

(Uh, I could have been born
somewhere and came to the US with my parents at 3 months of age, if I
were then a citizen I wouldn't necessarily have immigration
documents...)

If your parents hadn't given you the necessary immigration documents
when you grew up, they'd have been pretty negligent parents.

On 2007-07-22 17:41:33 -0400, Sapphyre said:

On Jul 16, 9:01 am, sechumlib wrote:
I'm just not used to smart-ass comments from people who have no
possible interest in the subject and have nothing of any value whatever
to contribute.

Which is a perfect description of you.- Hide quoted text -

Well, you've responded that way to others (as in, you answered one of
my posts this way), so now you get upest someone has done it to you?

Did I indicate in any way that I was "upest"?

I rarely respond to your posts because your perfect description of him
is fitting of you too, but once in a while you have some valid input.
Note, once in a while... I lurk a lot more than I post, so I do take
notice of these things.

I'm glad you think I have valid input sometimes. It really doesn't
matter to me that you don't dote on everything I say.

On Jul 22, 6:21 pm, sechumlib wrote:
On 2007-07-22 17:21:46 -0400, Sapphyre said:

(Uh, I could have been born
somewhere and came to the US with my parents at 3 months of age, if I
were then a citizen I wouldn't necessarily have immigration
documents...)

If your parents hadn't given you the necessary immigration documents
when you grew up, they'd have been pretty negligent parents.

You quoted well, but apparently don't read too well..

Hypothetically, I could have been born somewhere else, and came with
my parents to the US when I was 3 months old.
Later become a citizen, therefore I no longer would have a Green Card
(or other Immigration related documents).

Since when do people who become citizens carry a Green Card around?
Isn't that illegal? Like don't you have to give that up when you
naturalize? Don't you read the entirety of what you quote before you
shoot your mouth off? And I don't even speak English as a first
language.

S.

On 2007-07-22 17:59:40 -0400, Sapphyre said:

For anyone who knows me well, I have a degenerative nervous disorder
and stress triggers me into fits when these sorts of things happen.
Let's just say that I had my bad times at work from stress, but not
every day.

Perhaps you need to develop some strategies for dealing with your
disorder at the border, particularly on "40 degrees below" days. It's
sort of out-of-it to rely on others to deal with such a situation when
they don't know it's coming.

Sapphyre wrote:
On Jul 15, 9:10 pm, Fred Ellis wrote:

You must not have gone through one of these Border Patrol check points
before. All you do is drive up to the Border Patrol officer, lower your
window and he asks if you are a U.S. citizen. You answer yes while he
looks inside your vehicle to see if there are any other passengers.
Then you tell the officer to have a nice day, raise your window and you
drive on.

That works if you're a U.S. Citizen. I am not. When I say "no", then
what?

I've been through only one of these checkpoints (Van Horn, Texas, on
Greyhound). The officers boarded the bus, the driver told us they were
"checking the bus" but I didn't know what for until he started asking
people where they were born. When I told him where I was born, he
demanded "immigration documents". (Uh, I could have been born
somewhere and came to the US with my parents at 3 months of age, if I
were then a citizen I wouldn't necessarily have immigration
documents...)

Since I was travelling on a foreign passport (and permanently residing
in Canada), I had "immigration documents", but I have to wonder
whether or not he'd accept a Canadian passport with no stamps if
that's what I showed this time around. I've never had my passport
stamped by the US officials ever since I had it (three years now). I
always had my foreign one stamped and filled in an arrival/departure
green card, but they don't seem to do that with Canadian passports.
That leads me to wonder how they can tell if I'm legal or not...

Then they treat you like a Canadian citizen even though you are only a
permanent resident. What is your nationality?

These days with the US demanding everyone use magnetic passports, do
passports get stamped any more?

On 22 Jul 2007 19:04:27 GMT, "Adam H. Kerman" wrote:

Peter Schleifer wrote:

The reason the schools make it a requirement is to remove any stigma
from submitting the form, and to make sure people who may qualify, but
do not think of themselves as poor, get their kids fed adequately.

What if a parent tries to teach a student a valuable lesson in privacy,
not to fill out unnecessary forms just because a clerk demands information?

Then the student also learns that, unlike other phone calls from the
school, the follow-up phone calls they make about the lunch forms can
be ignored.

Title I money is based on the percentage of students eligible for free
lunch. None of the schools my kids attend qualify for Title I, but I
think there are some other funds allocated based on the number of
low-income students, so the schools do try really hard to get those
forms in. A little too hard - one former employee at the elementary
school asked my wife if she could fill in the form pretending that I
(and my income) did not exist.

If there's a stigma, it's because the school district's clerical
employees are unkind to children.

No parent who isn't applying for an income-based program should EVER
reveal income information to a school.

My daughter attended a summer camp that had an income-based sliding
fee scale. They requested proof of income as part of the
registration, but accepted my statement that, "we are paying full
price."

--
Peter Schleifer
"Save me from the people who would save me from myself"

wrote:
On Jul 16, 6:38 am, Adam H. Kerman wrote:

In the very near future, a significant number of Americans, perhaps a
majority, will be required to have passports or be enrolled in a trusted
traveler program. No more hopping across the border to Tijuana, Vancouver,
Winsor, or Montreal to re-enter the United States with a simple declaration
of citizenship.

According to what I've heard (not sure how reliable), commercial
drivers will all be required to participate in FAST.

FAST was introduced with NAFTA, so that may not be strictly related to
9/11, not that any Mexicans are Al Qaeda.

The Web site on FAST didn't really give full details. Are vehicles
registered, too, as they are with NEXUS? Or just drivers?

Not sure how that will affect those drivers who aren't eligible to enter
(and there are a lot of them!!) A simple customs violation on paper that
isn't even the driver's fault can be simple reason for denial. My paperwork
wasn't in order once and I spent four hours at secondary, somehow I think
that's why my FAST application was refused.

I'm sure it's a matter of national security not to tell you exactly why
you are on their **** list. What is it that you do for a living?

Due to a four-year-old law, travelers entering or re-entering the United
States from any country in the western hemisphere, including Bermuda,
Canada, and Mexico, passports will be required from nearly everyone but
members of the U.S. Armed Forces on active duty traveling on orders,
merchant marine, and those who travel frequently enrolled in a trusted
traveler program (NEXUS, SENTRI, FAST). The requirements are already
in effect for those traveling by air to the United States. The date of
implementation for crossing by land or sea hasn't been announced. State
Department Passport Agency was so backlogged that the Bush administration
began allowing Americans to re-enter if they could show proof of
application.

I'm clean there. I needed my passport when I turned Canadian, so I'm
not worried on this one.

You're a naturalized Canadian, or a permanent resident? I'm confused.

Showing military ID in lieu of a passport is valid only when traveling
on orders. The general public who enroll in various programs for trusted
travelers crossing the border frequently won't need a passport:

I thought you needed a passport to enroll in these programs?

No, but you can enroll in addition to holding a passport, supposedly for
special treatment at the border.

On 2007-07-22 18:24:26 -0400, Sapphyre said:

On Jul 22, 6:21 pm, sechumlib wrote:
On 2007-07-22 17:21:46 -0400, Sapphyre said:

(Uh, I could have been born
somewhere and came to the US with my parents at 3 months of age, if I
were then a citizen I wouldn't necessarily have immigration
documents...)

If your parents hadn't given you the necessary immigration documents
when you grew up, they'd have been pretty negligent parents.

You quoted well, but apparently don't read too well..

Hypothetically, I could have been born somewhere else, and came with
my parents to the US when I was 3 months old.
Later become a citizen, therefore I no longer would have a Green Card
(or other Immigration related documents).

Since when do people who become citizens carry a Green Card around?
Isn't that illegal? Like don't you have to give that up when you
naturalize? Don't you read the entirety of what you quote before you
shoot your mouth off? And I don't even speak English as a first
language.

Let's see. You've stated numerous times that you are not a US citizen.
I gather you don't even live in the US, though you like to travel here
at will. Moreover, you're not a native-born Canadian but have become a
Canadian citizen. Please feel free to correct any of these statements
that is incorrect.

Then what business do you have raising "hypothetical" questions about
US border-crossing law, and addressing me as though I (a native-born US
citizen) were the ignoramus when I react to them as the intellectual
nullities they seem to be? And why, now that I think of it, should I
even bother to read your "hypotheticals" about US border crossing law,
let alone try to deal with them in a serious way?

If you want real advice on your "hypothetical", perhaps you should
consult a US immigration attorney rather than scattering random
speculations on a newsgroup for laypersons to try to deal with.