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#261
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Silly accusations of anti-Americanism (was: Immigration Patrols On Domestic Amtrak)
Whitelightning wrote:
"Adam H. Kerman" wrote: Whitelightning wrote: wrote: "Whitelightning" said: Does the liberty that America stands for allow Americans to decide for themselves if fighting in a war our government has committed us to is the same as fighting for America? No it does not, however your free to leave, or free to say no and go to jail if you lose in court after saying no. I can respect the latter. There were a large number of people who even after Pearl Harbor considered WW2 Roosevelts war, not americas war. You just told us that draft dodgers weren't free to go to Canada, that they had committed a crime, which is why Carter had to parden them. So, what's the constitutional basis for this denial of liberty? The man I most admired who refused to go to Viet Nam was Ali, he stood up for his beliefs, stuck his chin out and accepted the consequences of his actions and didn't let it destroy him. That's what made him one of the greatest in my book, not his ability in the ring. Those were religious beliefs he couldn't claim to hold as a Christian. But most of us aren't international celebrity amateur boxing champions. What has his celebrity status got to do with anything, That they weren't going to shoot him, that if he were arrested, possibly tried, it would be a major media circus, that all of the best lawyers in the country would be fighting to represent him just for publicity. Even those inmates he'd have been incarcerated with would have treated him like a celebrity. No one tried to rape or beat up Mike Tyson. People who aren't celebrities aren't handled with kidd gloves. |
#262
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Immigration Patrols On Domestic Amtrak
On 2007-07-23 18:14:15 -0400, Sapphyre said:
Do you guys ever look stuff up before responding as though I make things up like types of ID, tax rates for where I live, etc? This stuff is all easily available on the Internet. We're not the ones who need the info. |
#263
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Silly accusations of anti-Americanism (was: Immigration Patrols On Domestic Amtrak)
On 2007-07-23 18:05:33 -0400, "Whitelightning"
said: No it does not, however your free to leave, Gee! I'm thrilled. "My free to leave." Just where would you suggest I go? My ancestors came over 150 years ago from the Sudetenland area of Bohemia, speaking German. If I went back there now, I'd have to speak Czech, and that would be somewhat of a challenge. In other words, do you know how silly you sound saying that those you don't agree with need to leave the country? Grow up. |
#264
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Canadian ID was Rules for border crossings into the United States
On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:57:15 -0300, Clark F Morris
wrote: On 23 Jul 2007 15:21:42 GMT, "Adam H. Kerman" wrote: Sapphyre wrote: I don't even let employers know that much about me, I show my citizenship ID card Canadian CITIZENS are required to carry proof of citizenship? Thus far, that's an infringement on personal liberty not yet imposed on US citizens. and SIN card for employment in Canada. I didn't know Canadians were licensed to sin. Is that your national health insurance number? Must employers use it for tax witholding? As a landed immigrant, I have never heard about a citizenship ID card and must remember to ask if one exists. The SIN is the Social Insurance Number and it also is 9 digits. As a "landed immigrant", you cannot obtain a "citizenship" card. That comes with the territory after you're naturalized. Dunno what the exact procedure is now, but in the past on becoming a citizen, you had the choice of receiving just the "paper" letter/A4 sized certificate, or you could also provide a passport-type photo and be given a wallet-sized plasticized "Certificate of Canadian Citizenship". That plus a BC driver's licence gets me back and forth by land across the border with no problems... and the requirement for more was recently put back by the US till the end of September 2008. rest snipped |
#265
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Immigration Patrols On Domestic Amtrak
On 2007-07-23 18:04:22 -0400, Sapphyre said:
Don't talk me in circles, if you don't get it, ask me to repeat myself again with a time line, since I refer to various incidents based on the time they occurred. If you want information on entering the US, ask the US authorities. Don't rely on us to be those authorities. And QUIT GRIPING about our answers to questions you shouldn't be asking to begin with. |
#266
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Immigration Patrols On Domestic Amtrak
Sapphyre wrote:
On Jul 23, 11:08 am, "Adam H. Kerman" wrote: As far as I know, a permanent resident isn't eligible for a Canadian passport. According to the US State Department Web site http://travel.state.gov/a permanent resident is treated like a foreign national of his country of nationality and would require a non-immigrant visa (and I assume a passport) to enter the United States, unless a national of one of the countries from which visas for travel are waived. Argh, are you talking me in circles to confuse me? Let me try this again. 1981 I came to Canada, was PR 1999 to 2003 I travelled to the US with foreign passport and filled in Arrival/Departure card. I believe that would be a non-immigrant (travel) visa, a form most Canadians wouldn't have filled out. Most Canadians don't require visas to enter the US. I had PR status in Canada to return to Canada. 2004 I naturalized, got passport I never said I had a passport while being a PR, Quoted above, you just said you entered the US with a foreign (to Canada) passport, the passport of the country of your previous nationality, yes? Until the recent change in the law, Canadians not immigrating to the United States didn't require passports nor visas. But as you weren't a Canadian at the time, it wouldn't have applied to you, regardless of your status as a person holding an immigrant visa to Canada. Don't talk me in circles, if you don't get it, ask me to repeat myself again with a time line, since I refer to various incidents based on the time they occurred. No one said that I couldn't go from being a PR to a Citizen over the past eight years did they? So it's it fair to assume that I was a PR and am a Citizen now if I'm referring to being both in the same thread? I wasn't talking in circles. When I made the comment, it wasn't clear to me from your messages that you'd subsequently been nationalized. Your permanent resident card is an immigrant visa, so that you'd have to present to your own immigration officials to re-enter Canada. Don't see why you had to show it to enter the US. I presented it to show I was a permanent resident in Canada, which is where I have ties. My dad told me to do this to identify me as a Canadian PR when I entered the US. I understand you were identifying yourself as friendly at the immigration check. Don't really know much about immigration law, but I don't see how showing it complies with US law since it's a foreign visa. I assume that you were required to show it to return to Canada, yes? What was your previous nationality? I won't post it, Very well. Question withdrawn. |
#267
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OT: Canadian ID and citizenship was Immigration Patrols On Domestic Amtrak
On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 16:09:42 -0300, Clark F Morris
wrote: On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 23:02:50 -0700, Sapphyre wrote: On Jul 22, 11:36 pm, Hatunen wrote: You're confusing me, and maybe some others. Anyone naturalized can get a passport. Unfortunately some people have trouble gathering the documents for a passport. There was a day when kids became naturalized as a matter of coure when their parents were naturalized, but that was long ago. Providing documentation for a passport could be a prob;lem for them; I believe they had to submit their parents' naturalization papers. I have relatives who had that problem. It was a hypothetical situation that would apply to someone who isn't me. No one in particular, just a random person. Someone felt fit to reply to it with an incomplete argument, so I argued, now everyone is confused. Forget it, it's not even a real situation. I was speaking in terms of someone who naturalized, who was born outside the US, answering the Border Patrol's questions exactly as they were asked, and whether or not that would cause a problem if that person was treated the same way I was treated (papers, please). However in my case, I don't live in the US, so I have papers, and need to provide papers. It's hypothetical, so if you're confused, forget it. Making myself understood is not exactly one of my stronger characteristics, especially when someone argues with half of what I say and ignores the other half, then everyone gets confused. I should learn not to argue with someone who enjoys debating as a pass-time. We do have a case here in Tucson of a woman who came to the USA very young and had no idea she wasn't a citizen. She's been voting here and all, but now this has come out. It's causing here a real headache because she is actually an illegal, although she had no idea of that. That really oughta suck to be her... As for your earlier comment, yes, everyone should have papers, but how many people carry their naturalization papers on them all the time? Most people get ID and documents and carry those (SSN card, driver's license, state ID card, or whatever else you guys call ID in Ameirca). In Canada, I have more ID than most, only because I needed to apply for this and that to prove I have the right to stay here now that I'm naturalized. Most people here have a birth certificate, health card, and driver's license, if even... I know, because I used to take ID from people as part of my daily job, and i met all sorts who were probably born here, but couldn't prove it to save their life. There are a number of people in Canada who found out that they lost their citizenship due to obscure changes in the law regarding time spent out of country and other things. Many World War II brides have gotten caught by another change. I don't recall the details but the CBC web-site (Canada's national radio/TV network) www.cbc.ca should have more information. S. Canadian citizenship didn't exist till 1 January 1947... the problems (in simple terms) are tied up with complications from what was known as being a "British subject" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_nationality_law Similarly for New Zealand whose law took effect on 1 January 1949 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zea...ationality_law And presumably much the same for Australia and South Africa... |
#268
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OT: Canadian ID and citizenship
Nobody wrote:
Clark F Morris wrote: On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 23:02:50 -0700, Sapphyre wrote: On Jul 22, 11:36 pm, Hatunen wrote: We do have a case here in Tucson of a woman who came to the USA very young and had no idea she wasn't a citizen. She's been voting here and all, but now this has come out. It's causing here a real headache because she is actually an illegal, although she had no idea of that. That really oughta suck to be her... As for your earlier comment, yes, everyone should have papers, but how many people carry their naturalization papers on them all the time? Most people get ID and documents and carry those (SSN card, driver's license, state ID card, or whatever else you guys call ID in Ameirca). In Canada, I have more ID than most, only because I needed to apply for this and that to prove I have the right to stay here now that I'm naturalized. Most people here have a birth certificate, health card, and driver's license, if even... I know, because I used to take ID from people as part of my daily job, and i met all sorts who were probably born here, but couldn't prove it to save their life. There are a number of people in Canada who found out that they lost their citizenship due to obscure changes in the law regarding time spent out of country and other things. Many World War II brides have gotten caught by another change. I don't recall the details but the CBC web-site (Canada's national radio/TV network) www.cbc.ca should have more information. Canadian citizenship didn't exist till 1 January 1947... the problems (in simple terms) are tied up with complications from what was known as being a "British subject" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_nationality_law I read the article, taking the usual grain of salt. That does not blame Canada's earlier nationality laws, based on British law. All by themselves, the Canadians thunk up the concept of expiring citizenship that had to be renewed on one's 28th birthday. That's outrageous. Also, I love the bit about unregistered citizens born abroad not having citizenship recognized, being required to apply for retroactive recognition by a deadline. The infant's parents would have been traveling on passport (unless they happened to give birth in the US) and would have known to apply for a passport, else they couldn't have brought the kid back into Canada. How isn't that a birth registration? Merritt has told us the story several times of his son's inability to prove that he was a native born American, father American, mother Japanese, born abroad. Finally, they remembered that he was issued a passport as a newborn infant, and thus the State Department recognized him as a native. Surely the same thing is true of Canadians born abroad. |
#269
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Canadian ID
At Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:21:22 -0700 Sapphyre wrote:
On Jul 23, 3:55 pm, "Adam H. Kerman" wrote: Thanks for confirming my guess, but it would have been more fun to let me believe that it was for something else... Is SIN used as a taxpayer identification number too? It stands for Social Insurance Number, but I often forget readers on Usenet might not know what we do in Canada, so I should clarify what these acronyms mean if I'm going to use them. We supply or SIN when we get new employment, receive welfare/ disability, contribute/withdraw from Canada Pension Plan, contribute to Employment Insurance, open an interest bearing savings account, start up a Registered Retirement Savings Plan, buy Canada Savings Bonds (or Ontario Savings Bonds, don't know if these exist elsewhere), ummm... someone else from Canada might have more to add to this list. Credit card companies and lenders often ask for it, but I don't know if that's legal or what the legislation says about loans and credit. I've heard it's not legal for them to ask, but then they often refuse to lend unless it's been provided. So yes, it is a tax payer identification number. It comes on a little white plastic card that isn't embossed (not anymore), nor does it contain a signature (if you've received one after 2004). It says on the card it's not a valid ID card, however some businesses will still look at it as ID (Canada Post accepts it for collecting registered mail, and it's required for processing of student loans). Hope this helps... S. Ah, SIN is Canadian for (USA) SSN... -- Robert Heller -- Get the Deepwoods Software FireFox Toolbar! Deepwoods Software -- Linux Installation and Administration http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Web Hosting, with CGI and Database -- Contract Programming: C/C++, Tcl/Tk |
#270
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Canadian ID
On 23 Jul 2007 19:55:56 GMT, "Adam H. Kerman" wrote:
Clark F Morris wrote: On 23 Jul 2007 15:21:42 GMT, "Adam H. Kerman" wrote: Sapphyre wrote: I don't even let employers know that much about me, I show my citizenship ID card Canadian CITIZENS are required to carry proof of citizenship? Thus far, that's an infringement on personal liberty not yet imposed on US citizens. and SIN card for employment in Canada. I didn't know Canadians were licensed to sin. Is that your national health insurance number? Must employers use it for tax witholding? As a landed immigrant, I have never heard about a citizenship ID card and must remember to ask if one exists. The SIN is the Social Insurance Number and it also is 9 digits. Thanks for confirming my guess, but it would have been more fun to let me believe that it was for something else... Is SIN used as a taxpayer identification number too? Most definitely. |
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