Americans must be FINGERPRINTED and PHOTOGRAPHED when entering the EU

Miguel Cruz wrote in message
news
Casey wrote:
OK, I'll bite. Tit-for-tat is childish.

No it is not childish, it is the way visa fees and tariffs are assigned.
When one country raises those fees, the other country does the same.

Yes, and that's why it's childish.

The other country should be making its decision based on what actually
provides its people with the most benefit, not based on how it can most
effectly thumb its nose at a country that has offended it.

In the case of a country that gets a lot of income from tourism, the
correct
response is to leave the visas free, so people keep visiting there instead
of going to the neighbors.

Precisely. I would have visited the Ukraine, Belarus and Moldova (spending
money of course) if they weren't such a pain in the arse to get visas for.
Especially considering those countries are not well set up for tourism. This
just doesn't make sense to me.

On a related note, I spent years living in Tasmania, the beautiful island
off the south of Australia that breeds spinning cartoon characters. In a bid
to make money, the local government put a high tax on the ferries that
service it, and flights were expensive due to low traffic. I campaigned for
years for them to lower the price of the boat, because people get put off
travelling there due to the size initial outlay. The island stayed in a
depressed state for years.

Finally (years after I left), they decided to subsidise the boats, and
encouraged cheaper flights, and in accordance with prophecy, the island is
now doing very well for itself. The concept is to get the people there, and
then they will spend money. Apparently commonsense is one of the hardest
things to comprehend for some...
---
DFM

Krjagt wrote in message
...
Subject: Americans must be FINGERPRINTED and PHOTOGRAPHED when
entering
the EU
From: "Casey"
Date: 10/30/2003 10:29 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: et

The visa wars remind me of the tariff wars in the late 1920s and
early 1930s, which were one of the final straws for the world
economy. We all know where that ended up. Bush is determined
to be the 2003 equivalent of Herbert Hoover, our president at the
time of the start of the Great Depression.


Casey

The most dangerous thing for americans is that they are building a Berlin
Wall
around their own country (I've already chosen not to fly to the US for a
business trip). When empires decide to hide behind a wall and pretend the
other
side doesn't exist it is the beginning of their downfall. Rome fell the
moment
they chose to hide behind their wall and ignored the "barbarians" on the
other
side. The Soviets fell the moment they began dividing people by building
artificial walls between their countries and the West. America is
isolating
itself with a 21st Century "electronic wall". How smart is that?.

Given history's knack for repeating itself, and peoples inability to learn
from it, it seems like the obvious choice. Anyone opposed to this obviously
flawed notion must belong on the other side of the wall...
---
DFM

Tim Challenger "timothy(dot)challenger(at)apk(dot)at" wrote in message
s.com...
On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 15:46:42 GMT, Casey wrote:

OK, I'll bite. Tit-for-tat is childish.

No it is not childish, it is the way visa fees and tariffs are
assigned.
When one country raises those fees, the other country does the
same.

Still childish. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Don't strain your neck tilting at all of those windmills, Don Quixote.

Personally I hope that the EU ban all US citizens from entering (except
the
couple of friends that might be coming over next year).

Personally, I think every country should allow me to visit visa free. They
should also stop all other tourists from ruining the places I haven't been
yet. Oh, and if they moved these countries closer to me it would be nice...
---
DFM

As an European Union ctizen I DEMAND that Americans entering the European Union
space be treated THE SAME EXACT WAY (no better no worse) than Europeans
entering the US.

If we are treated like criminals entering a prison when visiting the US then
americans must suffer the same fate. I expect this rule to apply the same date
the US begins "to process" their visitors/criminals from the EU.

On 30 Oct 2003 10:01:51 GMT, Krjagt wrote:

As an European Union ctizen I DEMAND that Americans entering the European Union
space be treated THE SAME EXACT WAY (no better no worse) than Europeans
entering the US.

If we are treated like criminals entering a prison when visiting the US then
americans must suffer the same fate. I expect this rule to apply the same date
the US begins "to process" their visitors/criminals from the EU.

OK, I'll bite. Tit-for-tat is childish.
BUT...it might just keep out all those Americans with no common sense that
Robert's been trying to warn about the dangers of European mountains as
opposed to American ones. That'd be a good thing because it would
signifcantly reduce the numbers of Americans being injured in Europe. Thus
reduce medical and recovery costs, and hence medical and insurance costs
should drop, spurring-on both the US and EU economies. A good thing for all
involved I say. The only losers might be the Innsbruck university hospital
casualty department and the OEAMTC rescue helicopter fleet.

--
Tim.

If the human brain were simple enough that we could understand it, we would
be so simple that we couldn't.

On 30/10/03 11:01, in article ,
"Krjagt" wrote:



As an European Union ctizen I DEMAND that Americans entering the European
Union
space be treated THE SAME EXACT WAY (no better no worse) than Europeans
entering the US.

If we are treated like criminals entering a prison when visiting the US then
americans must suffer the same fate. I expect this rule to apply the same date
the US begins "to process" their visitors/criminals from the EU.

In the past, tit-for-tat had to be practiced by Europeans to wake the
Americans up.

US citizens long had the habit of traveling to Europe, "visa free", in fact
the "visa" or right of entry was automatically accorded by a stamp on the
passport on entering a European country.

A number of years ago when the French had a terrorist panic, they require
visas for "everyone". Actually they really only wanted to apply this
to doubtful countries, the US not being one of them. Anyway, the Americans
then got their taste of having to get visas for coming here. Horrors!

The US Congress then decided that certain countries were safe and no visa
would
be asked of Western Europeans. The Europeans reciprocated, all this
foolishness
stopped.

So this tit-for-tat worked. It is necessary to stand up to the Americans
now and then.
It still was not good for tourism so the business communities anywhere don`t
like this kind of game.

Sometimes tit-for-tat does not work.

For instance.

The French were generous in exchanging US State driver`s licenses
for French. We had our California permit exchanges in the mid-1970s,
no problem. Getting a French driver`s license via the usual route
of going to an Auto Ecole and taking the examinations is ify.
Only a third of the Parisians candidates pass there exams first time
around. These schools are a semi-racket anyway and by the time one
has worked through the course work and exam, the cost could be around
a thousand dollars. Anyway, after the above visa situation the French
recognized that none of the US states reciprocated and exchanged French
licenses with state permits. The French contacted each of the 50 US states
and offered them an exchange agreement. Only a couple of states
agreed, New Hampshire I think is one.

Anyway, now Americans coming to live in France have to do the Auto Ecole
bit. Unless they come from one of the few reasonable states.

A sort of Gold Rule applies, "we will do onto you want you do onto us".

So I would not rule out a European reaction to the American unilateral
imposition of unreasonable controls on entering the US. Europeans
are generally angry with American unilateralism, American Exceptionalism
and general imperial behavior. As a person holding both American
and French citizenships, I side with the Europeans on this one.

A general rule in life is don`t walk on other people`s feet. They
might stamp back.

Earl

Following up to Earl Evleth

Europeans
are generally angry with American unilateralism, American Exceptionalism
and general imperial behavior. As a person holding both American
and French citizenships, I side with the Europeans on this one.

A general rule in life is don`t walk on other people`s feet. They
might stamp back.

well said.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking & photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

I agree. US Residents and Australians complain of the complexities to
gain a visa to Russia(part of Europe). The regs are essentially the
same as required of Russians to obtain a US or OZ Visa.

I object to Americans being lumped together instead of singling out
US, which is a small portion of Greater America.


On 30 Oct 2003 10:01:51 GMT, (Krjagt) wrote:



As an European Union ctizen I DEMAND that Americans entering the European Union
space be treated THE SAME EXACT WAY (no better no worse) than Europeans
entering the US.

If we are treated like criminals entering a prison when visiting the US then
americans must suffer the same fate. I expect this rule to apply the same date
the US begins "to process" their visitors/criminals from the EU.

In article , Krjagt
writes


As an European Union ctizen I DEMAND that Americans entering the European Union
space be treated THE SAME EXACT WAY (no better no worse) than Europeans
entering the US.

If we are treated like criminals entering a prison when visiting the US then
americans must suffer the same fate. I expect this rule to apply the same date
the US begins "to process" their visitors/criminals from the EU.


I so agree: they must give details of every place they will be staying,
car hire details, etc.

What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander!
--
Marie Lewis

EU... what a joke. A stupid idea for a backwards continent. Makes be like
the Brits more and more - they were smart enough not to join.

"Krjagt" wrote in message
...


As an European Union ctizen I DEMAND that Americans entering the European
Union
space be treated THE SAME EXACT WAY (no better no worse) than Europeans
entering the US.

If we are treated like criminals entering a prison when visiting the US
then
americans must suffer the same fate. I expect this rule to apply the same
date
the US begins "to process" their visitors/criminals from the EU.