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How dangerous is South Africa?



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 17th, 2010, 06:14 PM posted to rec.sport.rugby.union,rec.travel.africa
Dick Toy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default How dangerous is South Africa?

what do the Seffies in the group think about this article ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8668615.stm

By Finlo Rohrer
BBC News Magazine

With a multitude of tourists heading to South Africa for the World
Cup, a question hangs on many lips: how dangerous is the country?
South Africa is a place where a lot of violent crime happens.
That much is hard to dispute.
Each day an average of nearly 50 people are murdered.
In addition to these 18,000 murders each year, there are another
18,000 attempted murders.
Murder is a staple of the news. In April, it was white supremacist
Eugene Terreblanche. Earlier this month, it was Lolly Jackson, the
flamboyant owner of the Teazers strip club chain, killed at a house in
Kempton Park, just outside Johannesburg.



BBC World Cup 2010
Simon Austin's blog - World Cup heaven or hell?
In the run-up to the World Cup, British newspapers have been happy to
convey a terrifying picture of South Africa.
One recently told its readers about "Cape Town's culture of gangsters,
drugs, rape, robbery and a murder every 25 minutes".
So should football fans fear for their lives at the World Cup?
It's a complicated picture, says Johan Burger, senior researcher in
the crime and justice programme at South Africa's Institute for
Security Studies.
The first thing is that the South African murder rate is going down
and not up.
"Contrary to what many people think, the murder rate, while still
extremely high, is down by about 44% since 1995. That's a huge
decrease."



Gunman kills SA strip clubs owner
The geographical and social spread of murder might also be relevant to
visitors.
"What is important to understand about our high crime rate is that we
know from research that approximately 80% of our murders happen within
a very specific social context, mostly between people that know one
another.
"There is something wrong within some of our communities in terms of
the social interaction and the social conditions."
In blunt terms, areas with problems have murder levels that can be
wildly above the national average.
Kwa Mashu, a township outside Durban in KwaZulu-Natal, has the
unfortunate honour of being dubbed South Africa's murder capital by
the media, with 300 last year. It took the unwanted honour from
Nyanga, a township outside Cape Town.
These are not the kinds of areas that are regularly frequented by
tourists.
Dr Burger says research done by other academics points to the social
basis for a high crime rate in such areas.
"There are extremely high rates of unemployment in some areas. All of
this leads to a large element of frustration. Often this is the thing
that sparks violence.
"The gap between rich and poor is still widening and it leads to what
is seen as relative deprivation. The people in the very, very poor
communities, they see wealth.
"It is not just a gap, it is a visible gap. The situation is
aggravated by poor service delivery. Many of our municipalities are in
complete disarray, complete dysfunction. This then leads to
dissatisfaction. People protest sometimes very violently."

2008/09
UK murders 662
SA murders 18,148

There are many other crimes apart from murder which are seen as
problematic in South Africa.
The national figure of 203,777 episodes of "assault with the intent to
inflict grievous bodily harm" might be alarming. It's hard to compare
this with the UK where statistics are grouped differently, though the
latter has a larger population (61 million compared with South
Africa's 49 million.)
But like murder, many offences are geographically weighted, says Dr
Burger.
Of the 18,438 house robberies in South Africa last year, 8,122 were in
the province of Gauteng, which includes Johannesburg. The likelihood
of being a victim is twice the national average there.
Carjacking is a category of danger that would be novel to most
visitors from western Europe.

Foreign media have sometimes been scathing
There are junctions which are signposted as carjacking blackspots, and
there are areas where drivers will avoid stopping at red lights,
particularly at night, preferring the risk of a fine to the risk of
hijack.
"Many people may come in rented cars and then like everyone else they
will run the risk of this," says Dr Burger. He notes that "most of the
time" carjacking victims are "threatened or violently removed... not
seriously injured".
Unlike most categories of violent crime, recorded instances of
carjacking are on the rise in South Africa. The police do their best
to fight it, says Pretoria News crime reporter Graeme Hosken.
"We have had a problem with gangs following tourists from OR Tambo
airport [near Johannesburg] and the cops cracked down on that. I take
precautions. I've been nearly hijacked myself on an open freeway."
He advises:
Keep your car locked while driving
Don't stop for strangers or people who have broken down
A blue light does not necessarily mean they are police
If carjacked, do not offer resistance
Carjacking is geographically skewed with half of the 15,000 happening
in Gauteng

ADVICE FOR FANS


Foreign Office travel advice - World Cup South Africa 2010
"There's another crime that poses some risk to visitors and that's
street robbery," says Dr Burger.
"People are seldom seriously injured or stabbed or shot. In most cases
people are threatened. Criminals will see the World Cup as a huge
opportunity."
People can take a number of steps to reduce their chances of being
robbed in the street, he says:
Avoid advertising. Don't show you have valuables on your person
Take precautions by trying to go to some of these places in groups of
five, six, seven or more people
Most importantly, make a point of seeking advice
"The locals know which places people should avoid and the times people
should stay away from certain areas."
If England win their group and make it as far as the quarter finals,
they will play in Soccer City, Johannesburg.
There are areas in the city that have a disproportionate level of
crime. Ask a local and they may advise against travel to Hillbrow or
Yeoville at night.
At the same time, people could also point out that every city has its
bad bits.
"I wouldn't go to dodgy areas in London, or the dodgy areas in
Liverpool or Manchester," says Hosken.
But of course the crime issue is high on the agenda for the World Cup
organisers.
The South African Police Service has prepared a plan that includes
extra officers, high visibility policing, and deployment of specialist
teams.
"I've seen the police plan, it's extremely impressive," says Dr
Burger.

The South African police say they have a plan to tackle crime
But while there may be optimism about the police plans, there is still
a deep sense of unease, says Hosken.
"The government says crime is going down, [but] 50 odd people are
being killed every single day. There is scepticism about what is
really happening.
"While crime might be going down, it is [often] extremely violent,
armed robberies, hijackings. It is very in your face, it is very
gruesome. The robbers will come in and not only attack a couple, [but]
rape the wife, and severely assault the husband.
"People are worried about what the government is trying to feed them.
The violence associated with crime is increasing."
And while the South African police can point to decreasing crime and
the efforts they are making, fighting the fear of violence is harder.
  #2  
Old May 17th, 2010, 08:19 PM posted to rec.sport.rugby.union,rec.travel.africa
Spizz[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default How dangerous is South Africa?

"Dick Toy" wrote in message
...
what do the Seffies in the group think about this article ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8668615.stm

By Finlo Rohrer
BBC News Magazine

With a multitude of tourists heading to South Africa for the World
Cup, a question hangs on many lips: how dangerous is the country?
South Africa is a place where a lot of violent crime happens.
That much is hard to dispute.
Each day an average of nearly 50 people are murdered.
In addition to these 18,000 murders each year, there are another
18,000 attempted murders.
Murder is a staple of the news. In April, it was white supremacist
Eugene Terreblanche. Earlier this month, it was Lolly Jackson, the
flamboyant owner of the Teazers strip club chain, killed at a house in
Kempton Park, just outside Johannesburg.



BBC World Cup 2010
Simon Austin's blog - World Cup heaven or hell?
In the run-up to the World Cup, British newspapers have been happy to
convey a terrifying picture of South Africa.
One recently told its readers about "Cape Town's culture of gangsters,
drugs, rape, robbery and a murder every 25 minutes".
So should football fans fear for their lives at the World Cup?
It's a complicated picture, says Johan Burger, senior researcher in
the crime and justice programme at South Africa's Institute for
Security Studies.
The first thing is that the South African murder rate is going down
and not up.
"Contrary to what many people think, the murder rate, while still
extremely high, is down by about 44% since 1995. That's a huge
decrease."



Gunman kills SA strip clubs owner
The geographical and social spread of murder might also be relevant to
visitors.
"What is important to understand about our high crime rate is that we
know from research that approximately 80% of our murders happen within
a very specific social context, mostly between people that know one
another.
"There is something wrong within some of our communities in terms of
the social interaction and the social conditions."
In blunt terms, areas with problems have murder levels that can be
wildly above the national average.
Kwa Mashu, a township outside Durban in KwaZulu-Natal, has the
unfortunate honour of being dubbed South Africa's murder capital by
the media, with 300 last year. It took the unwanted honour from
Nyanga, a township outside Cape Town.
These are not the kinds of areas that are regularly frequented by
tourists.
Dr Burger says research done by other academics points to the social
basis for a high crime rate in such areas.
"There are extremely high rates of unemployment in some areas. All of
this leads to a large element of frustration. Often this is the thing
that sparks violence.
"The gap between rich and poor is still widening and it leads to what
is seen as relative deprivation. The people in the very, very poor
communities, they see wealth.
"It is not just a gap, it is a visible gap. The situation is
aggravated by poor service delivery. Many of our municipalities are in
complete disarray, complete dysfunction. This then leads to
dissatisfaction. People protest sometimes very violently."

2008/09
UK murders 662
SA murders 18,148

There are many other crimes apart from murder which are seen as
problematic in South Africa.
The national figure of 203,777 episodes of "assault with the intent to
inflict grievous bodily harm" might be alarming. It's hard to compare
this with the UK where statistics are grouped differently, though the
latter has a larger population (61 million compared with South
Africa's 49 million.)
But like murder, many offences are geographically weighted, says Dr
Burger.
Of the 18,438 house robberies in South Africa last year, 8,122 were in
the province of Gauteng, which includes Johannesburg. The likelihood
of being a victim is twice the national average there.
Carjacking is a category of danger that would be novel to most
visitors from western Europe.

Foreign media have sometimes been scathing
There are junctions which are signposted as carjacking blackspots, and
there are areas where drivers will avoid stopping at red lights,
particularly at night, preferring the risk of a fine to the risk of
hijack.
"Many people may come in rented cars and then like everyone else they
will run the risk of this," says Dr Burger. He notes that "most of the
time" carjacking victims are "threatened or violently removed... not
seriously injured".
Unlike most categories of violent crime, recorded instances of
carjacking are on the rise in South Africa. The police do their best
to fight it, says Pretoria News crime reporter Graeme Hosken.
"We have had a problem with gangs following tourists from OR Tambo
airport [near Johannesburg] and the cops cracked down on that. I take
precautions. I've been nearly hijacked myself on an open freeway."
He advises:
Keep your car locked while driving
Don't stop for strangers or people who have broken down
A blue light does not necessarily mean they are police
If carjacked, do not offer resistance
Carjacking is geographically skewed with half of the 15,000 happening
in Gauteng

ADVICE FOR FANS


Foreign Office travel advice - World Cup South Africa 2010
"There's another crime that poses some risk to visitors and that's
street robbery," says Dr Burger.
"People are seldom seriously injured or stabbed or shot. In most cases
people are threatened. Criminals will see the World Cup as a huge
opportunity."
People can take a number of steps to reduce their chances of being
robbed in the street, he says:
Avoid advertising. Don't show you have valuables on your person
Take precautions by trying to go to some of these places in groups of
five, six, seven or more people
Most importantly, make a point of seeking advice
"The locals know which places people should avoid and the times people
should stay away from certain areas."
If England win their group and make it as far as the quarter finals,
they will play in Soccer City, Johannesburg.
There are areas in the city that have a disproportionate level of
crime. Ask a local and they may advise against travel to Hillbrow or
Yeoville at night.
At the same time, people could also point out that every city has its
bad bits.
"I wouldn't go to dodgy areas in London, or the dodgy areas in
Liverpool or Manchester," says Hosken.
But of course the crime issue is high on the agenda for the World Cup
organisers.
The South African Police Service has prepared a plan that includes
extra officers, high visibility policing, and deployment of specialist
teams.
"I've seen the police plan, it's extremely impressive," says Dr
Burger.

The South African police say they have a plan to tackle crime
But while there may be optimism about the police plans, there is still
a deep sense of unease, says Hosken.
"The government says crime is going down, [but] 50 odd people are
being killed every single day. There is scepticism about what is
really happening.
"While crime might be going down, it is [often] extremely violent,
armed robberies, hijackings. It is very in your face, it is very
gruesome. The robbers will come in and not only attack a couple, [but]
rape the wife, and severely assault the husband.
"People are worried about what the government is trying to feed them.
The violence associated with crime is increasing."
And while the South African police can point to decreasing crime and
the efforts they are making, fighting the fear of violence is harder.



I have been visiting South Africa regularly for 20 years and have lived in
Cape Town and surrounds for 6 years now and I absolutely love the place. I
know the crime level is frighteningly high and you hear lots of scare
stories from the ex-pats, but mainly it is localised in the kind of places
you just would not go. Like any city or country I suppose. So follow the
rules exactly as you would in the red light area of Amsterdam, and you will
be fine.

But anyway, the people are warm and friendly and the nightlife is
outstanding. In Cape Town, the tourist trail is well worn and their are
lots of things to do. Safari's, wine trails, whale watching, shark cage
diving, water sports, rugby, cricket and just plain scenery and beaches.

Coupled with the cheap food, booze and smokes, you just can't lose. Ask the
Lions fans who came last year. I had a few jars with a bunch of them before
the WP game at Newlands and to a man, they just couldn't believe how
fantastic the place was.

HTH

Spizz

  #3  
Old May 18th, 2010, 01:43 PM posted to rec.sport.rugby.union,rec.travel.africa
Simon S-B
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 69
Default How dangerous is South Africa?



"Spizz" wrote in message
...
"Dick Toy" wrote in message
...
what do the Seffies in the group think about this article ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8668615.stm

By Finlo Rohrer
BBC News Magazine

With a multitude of tourists heading to South Africa for the World
Cup, a question hangs on many lips: how dangerous is the country?
South Africa is a place where a lot of violent crime happens.
That much is hard to dispute.
Each day an average of nearly 50 people are murdered.
In addition to these 18,000 murders each year, there are another
18,000 attempted murders.
Murder is a staple of the news. In April, it was white supremacist
Eugene Terreblanche. Earlier this month, it was Lolly Jackson, the
flamboyant owner of the Teazers strip club chain, killed at a house in
Kempton Park, just outside Johannesburg.



BBC World Cup 2010
Simon Austin's blog - World Cup heaven or hell?
In the run-up to the World Cup, British newspapers have been happy to
convey a terrifying picture of South Africa.
One recently told its readers about "Cape Town's culture of gangsters,
drugs, rape, robbery and a murder every 25 minutes".
So should football fans fear for their lives at the World Cup?
It's a complicated picture, says Johan Burger, senior researcher in
the crime and justice programme at South Africa's Institute for
Security Studies.
The first thing is that the South African murder rate is going down
and not up.
"Contrary to what many people think, the murder rate, while still
extremely high, is down by about 44% since 1995. That's a huge
decrease."



Gunman kills SA strip clubs owner
The geographical and social spread of murder might also be relevant to
visitors.
"What is important to understand about our high crime rate is that we
know from research that approximately 80% of our murders happen within
a very specific social context, mostly between people that know one
another.
"There is something wrong within some of our communities in terms of
the social interaction and the social conditions."
In blunt terms, areas with problems have murder levels that can be
wildly above the national average.
Kwa Mashu, a township outside Durban in KwaZulu-Natal, has the
unfortunate honour of being dubbed South Africa's murder capital by
the media, with 300 last year. It took the unwanted honour from
Nyanga, a township outside Cape Town.
These are not the kinds of areas that are regularly frequented by
tourists.
Dr Burger says research done by other academics points to the social
basis for a high crime rate in such areas.
"There are extremely high rates of unemployment in some areas. All of
this leads to a large element of frustration. Often this is the thing
that sparks violence.
"The gap between rich and poor is still widening and it leads to what
is seen as relative deprivation. The people in the very, very poor
communities, they see wealth.
"It is not just a gap, it is a visible gap. The situation is
aggravated by poor service delivery. Many of our municipalities are in
complete disarray, complete dysfunction. This then leads to
dissatisfaction. People protest sometimes very violently."

2008/09
UK murders 662
SA murders 18,148

There are many other crimes apart from murder which are seen as
problematic in South Africa.
The national figure of 203,777 episodes of "assault with the intent to
inflict grievous bodily harm" might be alarming. It's hard to compare
this with the UK where statistics are grouped differently, though the
latter has a larger population (61 million compared with South
Africa's 49 million.)
But like murder, many offences are geographically weighted, says Dr
Burger.
Of the 18,438 house robberies in South Africa last year, 8,122 were in
the province of Gauteng, which includes Johannesburg. The likelihood
of being a victim is twice the national average there.
Carjacking is a category of danger that would be novel to most
visitors from western Europe.

Foreign media have sometimes been scathing
There are junctions which are signposted as carjacking blackspots, and
there are areas where drivers will avoid stopping at red lights,
particularly at night, preferring the risk of a fine to the risk of
hijack.
"Many people may come in rented cars and then like everyone else they
will run the risk of this," says Dr Burger. He notes that "most of the
time" carjacking victims are "threatened or violently removed... not
seriously injured".
Unlike most categories of violent crime, recorded instances of
carjacking are on the rise in South Africa. The police do their best
to fight it, says Pretoria News crime reporter Graeme Hosken.
"We have had a problem with gangs following tourists from OR Tambo
airport [near Johannesburg] and the cops cracked down on that. I take
precautions. I've been nearly hijacked myself on an open freeway."
He advises:
Keep your car locked while driving
Don't stop for strangers or people who have broken down
A blue light does not necessarily mean they are police
If carjacked, do not offer resistance
Carjacking is geographically skewed with half of the 15,000 happening
in Gauteng

ADVICE FOR FANS


Foreign Office travel advice - World Cup South Africa 2010
"There's another crime that poses some risk to visitors and that's
street robbery," says Dr Burger.
"People are seldom seriously injured or stabbed or shot. In most cases
people are threatened. Criminals will see the World Cup as a huge
opportunity."
People can take a number of steps to reduce their chances of being
robbed in the street, he says:
Avoid advertising. Don't show you have valuables on your person
Take precautions by trying to go to some of these places in groups of
five, six, seven or more people
Most importantly, make a point of seeking advice
"The locals know which places people should avoid and the times people
should stay away from certain areas."
If England win their group and make it as far as the quarter finals,
they will play in Soccer City, Johannesburg.
There are areas in the city that have a disproportionate level of
crime. Ask a local and they may advise against travel to Hillbrow or
Yeoville at night.
At the same time, people could also point out that every city has its
bad bits.
"I wouldn't go to dodgy areas in London, or the dodgy areas in
Liverpool or Manchester," says Hosken.
But of course the crime issue is high on the agenda for the World Cup
organisers.
The South African Police Service has prepared a plan that includes
extra officers, high visibility policing, and deployment of specialist
teams.
"I've seen the police plan, it's extremely impressive," says Dr
Burger.

The South African police say they have a plan to tackle crime
But while there may be optimism about the police plans, there is still
a deep sense of unease, says Hosken.
"The government says crime is going down, [but] 50 odd people are
being killed every single day. There is scepticism about what is
really happening.
"While crime might be going down, it is [often] extremely violent,
armed robberies, hijackings. It is very in your face, it is very
gruesome. The robbers will come in and not only attack a couple, [but]
rape the wife, and severely assault the husband.
"People are worried about what the government is trying to feed them.
The violence associated with crime is increasing."
And while the South African police can point to decreasing crime and
the efforts they are making, fighting the fear of violence is harder.



I have been visiting South Africa regularly for 20 years and have lived in
Cape Town and surrounds for 6 years now and I absolutely love the place. I
know the crime level is frighteningly high and you hear lots of scare
stories from the ex-pats, but mainly it is localised in the kind of places
you just would not go. Like any city or country I suppose. So follow the
rules exactly as you would in the red light area of Amsterdam, and you
will be fine.

But anyway, the people are warm and friendly and the nightlife is
outstanding. In Cape Town, the tourist trail is well worn and their are
lots of things to do. Safari's, wine trails, whale watching, shark cage
diving, water sports, rugby, cricket and just plain scenery and beaches.

Coupled with the cheap food, booze and smokes, you just can't lose. Ask
the Lions fans who came last year. I had a few jars with a bunch of them
before the WP game at Newlands and to a man, they just couldn't believe
how fantastic the place was.

HTH

Spizz


My uncle lived in Joburg for years. When he first arrived, he was
bike-jacked for his Ducati. Shortly afterwards he was car-jacked, and
worried that all the stories were true. In the next 10 years he didn't have
a single problem, except for his housekeeper breaking every electrical
appliance that he owned at least 3 times.

  #4  
Old May 18th, 2010, 02:26 PM posted to rec.sport.rugby.union,rec.travel.africa
Dave (SA)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default How dangerous is South Africa?

On May 18, 2:43*pm, "Simon S-B" wrote:
"Spizz" wrote in message

...



"Dick Toy" wrote in message
....
what do the Seffies in the group think about this article ?


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8668615.stm


By Finlo Rohrer
BBC News Magazine


With a multitude of tourists heading to South Africa for the World
Cup, a question hangs on many lips: how dangerous is the country?
South Africa is a place where a lot of violent crime happens.
That much is hard to dispute.
Each day an average of nearly 50 people are murdered.
In addition to these 18,000 murders each year, there are another
18,000 attempted murders.
Murder is a staple of the news. In April, it was white supremacist
Eugene Terreblanche. Earlier this month, it was Lolly Jackson, the
flamboyant owner of the Teazers strip club chain, killed at a house in
Kempton Park, just outside Johannesburg.


BBC World Cup 2010
Simon Austin's blog - World Cup heaven or hell?
In the run-up to the World Cup, British newspapers have been happy to
convey a terrifying picture of South Africa.
One recently told its readers about "Cape Town's culture of gangsters,
drugs, rape, robbery and a murder every 25 minutes".
So should football fans fear for their lives at the World Cup?
It's a complicated picture, says Johan Burger, senior researcher in
the crime and justice programme at South Africa's Institute for
Security Studies.
The first thing is that the South African murder rate is going down
and not up.
"Contrary to what many people think, the murder rate, while still
extremely high, is down by about 44% since 1995. That's a huge
decrease."


Gunman kills SA strip clubs owner
The geographical and social spread of murder might also be relevant to
visitors.
"What is important to understand about our high crime rate is that we
know from research that approximately 80% of our murders happen within
a very specific social context, mostly between people that know one
another.
"There is something wrong within some of our communities in terms of
the social interaction and the social conditions."
In blunt terms, areas with problems have murder levels that can be
wildly above the national average.
Kwa Mashu, a township outside Durban in KwaZulu-Natal, has the
unfortunate honour of being dubbed South Africa's murder capital by
the media, with 300 last year. It took the unwanted honour from
Nyanga, a township outside Cape Town.
These are not the kinds of areas that are regularly frequented by
tourists.
Dr Burger says research done by other academics points to the social
basis for a high crime rate in such areas.
"There are extremely high rates of unemployment in some areas. All of
this leads to a large element of frustration. Often this is the thing
that sparks violence.
"The gap between rich and poor is still widening and it leads to what
is seen as relative deprivation. The people in the very, very poor
communities, they see wealth.
"It is not just a gap, it is a visible gap. The situation is
aggravated by poor service delivery. Many of our municipalities are in
complete disarray, complete dysfunction. This then leads to
dissatisfaction. People protest sometimes very violently."


2008/09
UK murders 662
SA murders 18,148


There are many other crimes apart from murder which are seen as
problematic in South Africa.
The national figure of 203,777 episodes of "assault with the intent to
inflict grievous bodily harm" might be alarming. It's hard to compare
this with the UK where statistics are grouped differently, though the
latter has a larger population (61 million compared with South
Africa's 49 million.)
But like murder, many offences are geographically weighted, says Dr
Burger.
Of the 18,438 house robberies in South Africa last year, 8,122 were in
the province of Gauteng, which includes Johannesburg. The likelihood
of being a victim is twice the national average there.
Carjacking is a category of danger that would be novel to most
visitors from western Europe.


Foreign media have sometimes been scathing
There are junctions which are signposted as carjacking blackspots, and
there are areas where drivers will avoid stopping at red lights,
particularly at night, preferring the risk of a fine to the risk of
hijack.
"Many people may come in rented cars and then like everyone else they
will run the risk of this," says Dr Burger. He notes that "most of the
time" carjacking victims are "threatened or violently removed... not
seriously injured".
Unlike most categories of violent crime, recorded instances of
carjacking are on the rise in South Africa. The police do their best
to fight it, says Pretoria News crime reporter Graeme Hosken.
"We have had a problem with gangs following tourists from OR Tambo
airport [near Johannesburg] and the cops cracked down on that. I take
precautions. I've been nearly hijacked myself on an open freeway."
He advises:
Keep your car locked while driving
Don't stop for strangers or people who have broken down
A blue light does not necessarily mean they are police
If carjacked, do not offer resistance
Carjacking is geographically skewed with half of the 15,000 happening
in Gauteng


ADVICE FOR FANS


Foreign Office travel advice - World Cup South Africa 2010
"There's another crime that poses some risk to visitors and that's
street robbery," says Dr Burger.
"People are seldom seriously injured or stabbed or shot. In most cases
people are threatened. Criminals will see the World Cup as a huge
opportunity."
People can take a number of steps to reduce their chances of being
robbed in the street, he says:
Avoid advertising. Don't show you have valuables on your person
Take precautions by trying to go to some of these places in groups of
five, six, seven or more people
Most importantly, make a point of seeking advice
"The locals know which places people should avoid and the times people
should stay away from certain areas."
If England win their group and make it as far as the quarter finals,
they will play in Soccer City, Johannesburg.
There are areas in the city that have a disproportionate level of
crime. Ask a local and they may advise against travel to Hillbrow or
Yeoville at night.
At the same time, people could also point out that every city has its
bad bits.
"I wouldn't go to dodgy areas in London, or the dodgy areas in
Liverpool or Manchester," says Hosken.
But of course the crime issue is high on the agenda for the World Cup
organisers.
The South African Police Service has prepared a plan that includes
extra officers, high visibility policing, and deployment of specialist
teams.
"I've seen the police plan, it's extremely impressive," says Dr
Burger.


The South African police say they have a plan to tackle crime
But while there may be optimism about the police plans, there is still
a deep sense of unease, says Hosken.
"The government says crime is going down, [but] 50 odd people are
being killed every single day. There is scepticism about what is
really happening.
"While crime might be going down, it is [often] extremely violent,
armed robberies, hijackings. It is very in your face, it is very
gruesome. The robbers will come in and not only attack a couple, [but]
rape the wife, and severely assault the husband.
"People are worried about what the government is trying to feed them.
The violence associated with crime is increasing."
And while the South African police can point to decreasing crime and
the efforts they are making, fighting the fear of violence is harder.


I have been visiting South Africa regularly for 20 years and have lived in
Cape Town and surrounds for 6 years now and I absolutely love the place.. I
know the crime level is frighteningly high and you hear lots of scare
stories from the ex-pats, but mainly it is localised in the kind of places
you just would not go. Like any city or country I suppose. So follow the
rules exactly as you would in the red light area of Amsterdam, and you
will be fine.


But anyway, the people are warm and friendly and the nightlife is
outstanding. *In Cape Town, the tourist trail is well worn and their are
lots of things to do. Safari's, wine trails, whale watching, shark cage
diving, water sports, rugby, cricket and just plain scenery and beaches..


Coupled with the cheap food, booze and smokes, you just can't lose. Ask
the Lions fans who came last year. I had a few jars with a bunch of them
before the WP game at Newlands and to a man, they just couldn't believe
how fantastic the place was.


HTH


Spizz


My uncle lived in Joburg for years. When he first arrived, he was
bike-jacked for his Ducati. Shortly afterwards he was car-jacked, and
worried that all the stories were true. In the next 10 years he didn't have
a single problem, except for his housekeeper breaking every electrical
appliance that he owned at least 3 times.


Fair point.

I used to live in Durban 15 years ago. Then Johannesburg for 1 year.
I now live in Cape Town in a decent area

Apart from a stolen car (I wasn't in it, it was stolen from a car
park) in Jhb 17 years ago I have had no issues and my Cape Town and
Durban friends have had no issues invoilving violence.

I live in a good area of Cape Town (by that read pretty expensive). We
have decent security.
However if you are poor Cape Town is damn dangerous. The poor feel
over 99% of all crime. The townships and informal settlements have a
lot of crime and the poor have no insurance.

But lets return this to be vaguely connected to rugby.
I watch rugby from a couple of pubs some of which are pretty busy.
In 15 years (and I like my beer) I have not witnessed one fight let
alone being part of one.
Not even one.

I travel to the UK twice a year and I have witnessed a few incidents
of fights (in pubs mainly plus one getting of a train) and one violent
mugging.
I certainly get the impression that there is a decent chance of
someone picking a fight with you in a UK pub.

AT the end of the day crime in SA is a Socio Economic thing.
Travelers don't have much to worry about.
  #5  
Old May 18th, 2010, 04:17 PM posted to rec.sport.rugby.union,rec.travel.africa
Simon S-B
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 69
Default How dangerous is South Africa?



"Dave (SA)" wrote in message
...
On May 18, 2:43 pm, "Simon S-B" wrote:
"Spizz" wrote in message

...



"Dick Toy" wrote in message
...
what do the Seffies in the group think about this article ?


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8668615.stm


By Finlo Rohrer
BBC News Magazine


With a multitude of tourists heading to South Africa for the World
Cup, a question hangs on many lips: how dangerous is the country?
South Africa is a place where a lot of violent crime happens.
That much is hard to dispute.
Each day an average of nearly 50 people are murdered.
In addition to these 18,000 murders each year, there are another
18,000 attempted murders.
Murder is a staple of the news. In April, it was white supremacist
Eugene Terreblanche. Earlier this month, it was Lolly Jackson, the
flamboyant owner of the Teazers strip club chain, killed at a house in
Kempton Park, just outside Johannesburg.


BBC World Cup 2010
Simon Austin's blog - World Cup heaven or hell?
In the run-up to the World Cup, British newspapers have been happy to
convey a terrifying picture of South Africa.
One recently told its readers about "Cape Town's culture of gangsters,
drugs, rape, robbery and a murder every 25 minutes".
So should football fans fear for their lives at the World Cup?
It's a complicated picture, says Johan Burger, senior researcher in
the crime and justice programme at South Africa's Institute for
Security Studies.
The first thing is that the South African murder rate is going down
and not up.
"Contrary to what many people think, the murder rate, while still
extremely high, is down by about 44% since 1995. That's a huge
decrease."


Gunman kills SA strip clubs owner
The geographical and social spread of murder might also be relevant to
visitors.
"What is important to understand about our high crime rate is that we
know from research that approximately 80% of our murders happen within
a very specific social context, mostly between people that know one
another.
"There is something wrong within some of our communities in terms of
the social interaction and the social conditions."
In blunt terms, areas with problems have murder levels that can be
wildly above the national average.
Kwa Mashu, a township outside Durban in KwaZulu-Natal, has the
unfortunate honour of being dubbed South Africa's murder capital by
the media, with 300 last year. It took the unwanted honour from
Nyanga, a township outside Cape Town.
These are not the kinds of areas that are regularly frequented by
tourists.
Dr Burger says research done by other academics points to the social
basis for a high crime rate in such areas.
"There are extremely high rates of unemployment in some areas. All of
this leads to a large element of frustration. Often this is the thing
that sparks violence.
"The gap between rich and poor is still widening and it leads to what
is seen as relative deprivation. The people in the very, very poor
communities, they see wealth.
"It is not just a gap, it is a visible gap. The situation is
aggravated by poor service delivery. Many of our municipalities are in
complete disarray, complete dysfunction. This then leads to
dissatisfaction. People protest sometimes very violently."


2008/09
UK murders 662
SA murders 18,148


There are many other crimes apart from murder which are seen as
problematic in South Africa.
The national figure of 203,777 episodes of "assault with the intent to
inflict grievous bodily harm" might be alarming. It's hard to compare
this with the UK where statistics are grouped differently, though the
latter has a larger population (61 million compared with South
Africa's 49 million.)
But like murder, many offences are geographically weighted, says Dr
Burger.
Of the 18,438 house robberies in South Africa last year, 8,122 were in
the province of Gauteng, which includes Johannesburg. The likelihood
of being a victim is twice the national average there.
Carjacking is a category of danger that would be novel to most
visitors from western Europe.


Foreign media have sometimes been scathing
There are junctions which are signposted as carjacking blackspots, and
there are areas where drivers will avoid stopping at red lights,
particularly at night, preferring the risk of a fine to the risk of
hijack.
"Many people may come in rented cars and then like everyone else they
will run the risk of this," says Dr Burger. He notes that "most of the
time" carjacking victims are "threatened or violently removed... not
seriously injured".
Unlike most categories of violent crime, recorded instances of
carjacking are on the rise in South Africa. The police do their best
to fight it, says Pretoria News crime reporter Graeme Hosken.
"We have had a problem with gangs following tourists from OR Tambo
airport [near Johannesburg] and the cops cracked down on that. I take
precautions. I've been nearly hijacked myself on an open freeway."
He advises:
Keep your car locked while driving
Don't stop for strangers or people who have broken down
A blue light does not necessarily mean they are police
If carjacked, do not offer resistance
Carjacking is geographically skewed with half of the 15,000 happening
in Gauteng


ADVICE FOR FANS


Foreign Office travel advice - World Cup South Africa 2010
"There's another crime that poses some risk to visitors and that's
street robbery," says Dr Burger.
"People are seldom seriously injured or stabbed or shot. In most cases
people are threatened. Criminals will see the World Cup as a huge
opportunity."
People can take a number of steps to reduce their chances of being
robbed in the street, he says:
Avoid advertising. Don't show you have valuables on your person
Take precautions by trying to go to some of these places in groups of
five, six, seven or more people
Most importantly, make a point of seeking advice
"The locals know which places people should avoid and the times people
should stay away from certain areas."
If England win their group and make it as far as the quarter finals,
they will play in Soccer City, Johannesburg.
There are areas in the city that have a disproportionate level of
crime. Ask a local and they may advise against travel to Hillbrow or
Yeoville at night.
At the same time, people could also point out that every city has its
bad bits.
"I wouldn't go to dodgy areas in London, or the dodgy areas in
Liverpool or Manchester," says Hosken.
But of course the crime issue is high on the agenda for the World Cup
organisers.
The South African Police Service has prepared a plan that includes
extra officers, high visibility policing, and deployment of specialist
teams.
"I've seen the police plan, it's extremely impressive," says Dr
Burger.


The South African police say they have a plan to tackle crime
But while there may be optimism about the police plans, there is still
a deep sense of unease, says Hosken.
"The government says crime is going down, [but] 50 odd people are
being killed every single day. There is scepticism about what is
really happening.
"While crime might be going down, it is [often] extremely violent,
armed robberies, hijackings. It is very in your face, it is very
gruesome. The robbers will come in and not only attack a couple, [but]
rape the wife, and severely assault the husband.
"People are worried about what the government is trying to feed them.
The violence associated with crime is increasing."
And while the South African police can point to decreasing crime and
the efforts they are making, fighting the fear of violence is harder.


I have been visiting South Africa regularly for 20 years and have lived
in
Cape Town and surrounds for 6 years now and I absolutely love the
place. I
know the crime level is frighteningly high and you hear lots of scare
stories from the ex-pats, but mainly it is localised in the kind of
places
you just would not go. Like any city or country I suppose. So follow
the
rules exactly as you would in the red light area of Amsterdam, and you
will be fine.


But anyway, the people are warm and friendly and the nightlife is
outstanding. In Cape Town, the tourist trail is well worn and their
are
lots of things to do. Safari's, wine trails, whale watching, shark cage
diving, water sports, rugby, cricket and just plain scenery and
beaches.


Coupled with the cheap food, booze and smokes, you just can't lose. Ask
the Lions fans who came last year. I had a few jars with a bunch of
them
before the WP game at Newlands and to a man, they just couldn't believe
how fantastic the place was.


HTH


Spizz


My uncle lived in Joburg for years. When he first arrived, he was
bike-jacked for his Ducati. Shortly afterwards he was car-jacked, and
worried that all the stories were true. In the next 10 years he didn't
have
a single problem, except for his housekeeper breaking every electrical
appliance that he owned at least 3 times.


Fair point.

I used to live in Durban 15 years ago. Then Johannesburg for 1 year.
I now live in Cape Town in a decent area

Apart from a stolen car (I wasn't in it, it was stolen from a car
park) in Jhb 17 years ago I have had no issues and my Cape Town and
Durban friends have had no issues invoilving violence.

I live in a good area of Cape Town (by that read pretty expensive). We
have decent security.
However if you are poor Cape Town is damn dangerous. The poor feel
over 99% of all crime. The townships and informal settlements have a
lot of crime and the poor have no insurance.

But lets return this to be vaguely connected to rugby.
I watch rugby from a couple of pubs some of which are pretty busy.
In 15 years (and I like my beer) I have not witnessed one fight let
alone being part of one.
Not even one.

I travel to the UK twice a year and I have witnessed a few incidents
of fights (in pubs mainly plus one getting of a train) and one violent
mugging.
I certainly get the impression that there is a decent chance of
someone picking a fight with you in a UK pub.


My theory is that most of the problems come in the faceless chain pubs like
Weatherspoons and Lloyds, and occur for two reasons. Firstly they do not
have a 'local' feel to them. In my local, if anyone kicked off they would be
evicted sharpish by the regulars. Secondly they sell strong, cheap booze and
generally have late licenses. This attracts those most likely to fight, who
I'm quite happy to have all in one area that I can avoid.






AT the end of the day crime in SA is a Socio Economic thing.
Travelers don't have much to worry about.




  #6  
Old May 19th, 2010, 07:26 PM posted to rec.sport.rugby.union,rec.travel.africa
Maxx[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default How dangerous is South Africa?

Very. Ask Michael Jackson.
 




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