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#51
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Advice re hotels in BKK please...
Tchiowa wrote:
Most of the posters in this groups are backpackers or "budget tourists". So, like you, they consider many hotel amenities as "unimportant" and that's just fine. Their opinions are just as important as yours and mine. But don't confuse them with the "average tourists". The "average tourists" makes an above average income, travels with his family, books his tours from home with a travel agent, considers comfort part of what he wants to do. That means the average tourist makes around $50-75,000 US a year and isn't interested in a $20 a night hotel that is way below his normal standard of living. I wish everyone would include the state of roachiness when they recommend hotels. |
#52
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Advice re hotels in BKK please...
"Sjoerd" wrote in message ...
"Tchiowa" schreef in bericht om... "Sjoerd" wrote in message ... "Tchiowa" schreef in bericht m... AVerage tourist is a middle class person on a middle class income wanting to stay at a middle class hotel and live in middle class comfort while he's on vacation. I know many people that fall into that category. They all would be happy in my 980 baht / night hotel. More than happy. And I know people who will be happy for less and I know people that wouldn't settle for anything like that. That doesn't alter the accuracy of the statement. I don't know where you are from, but I guess you are American. In my experience, Americans value "brand names" in hotels more than most other tourists, and are therefore more likely to stay in a Hilton, or Marriott etc. than others. Please note that the vast majority of foreign tourists in Thailand are other Asians ( 50%) and Europeans (25%). Americans make up only 5% or so of all foreign tourists in Thailand. An American "average tourist" may display very different behaviour from a Chinese, Malaysian or British "average tourist". It could even be true that my 980 baht hotel is considered inferior by the average American (because nobody opens the door for you in the lobby, it doesn't have a brand name and one won't get frequent flyer miles for a stay), while the average Asian or European would be perfectly happy. Those things are important to some people and meaningless to others. I don't dispute that. But those are just some of the things that make a difference in the quality of the hotel and its cost. But don't tell me that the average Asian or European is different than the average American in this respect. Most of the people I work and travel with are not Americans and they have similar opinions. A hotel that meets those standards will cost at least $50 a night in Bangkok. Nonsense. Name the hotel you're talking about and I'll show you the difference. I *know* the difference. I have stayed in The Oriental, the Sukhothai and other 5* hotels in Bangkok. In terms of important qualities of the hotel (which I have listed before), the difference is insignificant. Now we're getting to the actual truth, aren't we? You refer to the differences that are "important" which means, of course, "important *TO YOU*". All I'm saying and all I've ever said about this topic is that doesn't reflect what the average tourist thinks. That doesn't mean you are right and they are wrong, just that the opinions are different. Your claim that you need to spend at least USD 50 for a decent hotel room in Bangkok (one that the "average tourist" would be happy to stay in) is ridiculous. Nobody here seems to agree with you. Most of the posters in this groups are backpackers or "budget tourists". So, like you, they consider many hotel amenities as "unimportant" and that's just fine. Their opinions are just as important as yours and mine. But don't confuse them with the "average tourists". The "average tourists" makes an above average income, travels with his family, books his tours from home with a travel agent, considers comfort part of what he wants to do. That means the average tourist makes around $50-75,000 US a year and isn't interested in a $20 a night hotel that is way below his normal standard of living. I know several hotels that cost around 1,000 / baht / night that are perfectly OK for an "average tourist". They are better than many of the 100 euro hotels in Europe and USD 100 hotels in the US (and even USD 200 in New York City) Funny that you can't seem to name even one of those hotels. |
#53
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Advice re hotels in BKK please...
Tchiowa wrote:
Most of the posters in this groups are backpackers or "budget tourists". So, like you, they consider many hotel amenities as "unimportant" and that's just fine. What, specifically, are the amenities you're referring to? Amenities that aren't present at the Bangkok hotels that Sjoerd and I used, but which "average tourists" demand...? miguel -- Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu |
#54
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Advice re hotels in BKK please...
"Tchiowa" schreef in bericht om... Now we're getting to the actual truth, aren't we? You refer to the differences that are "important" which means, of course, "important *TO YOU*". All I'm saying and all I've ever said about this topic is that doesn't reflect what the average tourist thinks. OK, please list the facilities, amenities and other qualities of a hotel that an "average tourist" (in your opinion) requires. The "average tourists" makes an above average income, travels with his family, books his tours from home with a travel agent, considers comfort part of what he wants to do. That means the average tourist makes around $50-75,000 US a year and isn't interested in a $20 a night hotel that is way below his normal standard of living. Wow. You put a lot of research into the "average tourist" if such an animal actually exists...... I make (much) more than the amount you gave us, and I am perfectly happy in a USD 20 hotel. (in Bangkok) I know several hotels that cost around 1,000 / baht / night that are perfectly OK for an "average tourist". They are better than many of the 100 euro hotels in Europe and USD 100 hotels in the US (and even USD 200 in New York City) Funny that you can't seem to name even one of those hotels. I can but I won't for reasons given to you earlier. Miguel gave you the name of one. Sjoerd |
#55
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Advice re hotels in BKK please...
Miguel Cruz wrote in message ...
Tchiowa wrote: Most of the posters in this groups are backpackers or "budget tourists". So, like you, they consider many hotel amenities as "unimportant" and that's just fine. What, specifically, are the amenities you're referring to? Amenities that aren't present at the Bangkok hotels that Sjoerd and I used, but which "average tourists" demand...? It's not just which specific amenities but the quality of those amenities. For instance you and he have said things something like "My room had a king-size bed and a color TV with cable and the A/C worked fine". Problem is that is like saying "Tata Young and Nancy Reagan both wear skirts and have 2 legs and like to sing therefore it isn't worth the money to spend on the extra 'amenties' to see a Tata Young concert when a Nancy Reagan concert would be so much cheaper". Often the amenity issue is one of quality. The average tourist does not want to stay in a hotel that simply doesn't present itself to be as clean, hygenic, comfortable, etc. that said average tourist is used to living in at home. Yes the average tourist wants to stay in a hotel that has things like a door man, good carpeting, knowledgeable concierge, good restaurant, and a number of other things. Note the qualifier of good and knowledgeable and others. There is no way that you can, with any semblance of honesty, say that the Grace Hotel is anywhere near on the same level as regards to cleanliness, comfort, safety, hygiene, service, etc. as the JW Marriott. Now that is comparing a top of the line hotel with a "close-to-the-bottom" of the line hotel. There are a lot of hotels between those 2 (The Landmark comes immediately to mind). Tourists on a tight budget would find the Grace "acceptable". (Backpackers might even feel like they were splurging.) Tourists who are relatively well off or who have someone else (like their boss) paying for the hotel will insist on the JW Marriott. Those in between, which constitute the majority, want something in between. |
#56
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Advice re hotels in BKK please...
U RIKA kaka wrote in message . ..
Tchiowa wrote: Most of the posters in this groups are backpackers or "budget tourists". So, like you, they consider many hotel amenities as "unimportant" and that's just fine. Their opinions are just as important as yours and mine. But don't confuse them with the "average tourists". The "average tourists" makes an above average income, travels with his family, books his tours from home with a travel agent, considers comfort part of what he wants to do. That means the average tourist makes around $50-75,000 US a year and isn't interested in a $20 a night hotel that is way below his normal standard of living. I wish everyone would include the state of roachiness when they recommend hotels. Actually this is one of the points I was trying to get across. I have never stayed at the Grace but have visited there with friends and I definitely recall the occasional "critter" scurrying through the lobby. A lot of people visit news groups like this when they're planning a trip and want some info. They may or may not ask questions and if they do, they may or may not push for details. If some posters give information that a hotel is "luxurious" when in fact the health department in the US would close it down if it were there then they are doing the lurkers and occasional readers a great disservice. If someone wants to say "I am a backpacker and if you're willing to accept a few inconveniences then X hotel is a great bargain" I have no issue with that. But when they say "If you stay at X hotel you'll live like a king" when in fact you'll be dodging cockroaches all night then I think that post needs to be challenged. |
#57
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Advice re hotels in BKK please...
"Tchiowa" schreef in bericht om... Tourists who are relatively well off or who have someone else (like their boss) paying for the hotel will insist on the JW Marriott. I am in the top 2% income earners in my country, which is probably within the top 5% in the USA, so I guess I qualify for being "relatively well off". I am perfectly happy in my 980 baht hotel in Bangkok and wouldn't even think about spending more for the same quality in a JW Marriott or other over-priced hotel. Again, my BKK hotel is spotlessly clean, has comfortable beds, nice bathroom, nice carpeting, TV with more channels than I have at home (I have 32 at home), A/C works fine and doesn't make much noise, there is a small table, a desk and 3 chairs in the room, there is a safe in the room, the staff are friendly and helpful, breakfast is very reasonable, the location of the hotel is central and there are several shops, restaurants, Internet cafes around the corner. Sjoerd |
#58
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Advice re hotels in BKK please...
"Tchiowa" wrote in message om... A lot of people visit news groups like this when they're planning a trip and want some info. They may or may not ask questions and if they do, they may or may not push for details. If some posters give information that a hotel is "luxurious" when in fact the health department in the US would close it down if it were there then they are doing the lurkers and occasional readers a great disservice. True luxury hotel rooms in Bangkok are about as expensive as in rest of the world. I have not been involved from the beginning of the thread but in a case there was this "luxury" factor around, you are the only one who keeps it alive (for some peculiar reason). It is also true that people are eager to exaggerate many local characteristics in overseas countries perhaps to paint them by more exotic colours or for some other reason. I don't pay much attention to those who insist that a nice travel in South East Asia can be done by 5 euros a day. However, the fact remains that Thailand is hilariously cheap for foreigners. A night in an adequate hotel/motel room can be anything from 7-8 euros; a 500 km bus ride in 1st class costs around 10 euros; a good meal 1-2 euros and so worth (okay you can spend 10-20 euros for a good plate at Patong). If someone wants to say "I am a backpacker and if you're willing to accept a few inconveniences then X hotel is a great bargain" I have no issue with that. But when they say "If you stay at X hotel you'll live like a king" when in fact you'll be dodging cockroaches all night then I think that post needs to be challenged. Actually backpacking is self explanatory: you carry a bag of some sort in your back. About traveller's wealth and how much he is going to spend for necessary services this status says nothing. He can be a teenager with a 20 buck daily budget or he can be a millionare. Backpackers buy these services at site (nowadays more and more beforehand via a web store). It is fairly secure to assume that anyone asking about accommodation facilities in Bangkok more or less do their own arrangements whether they are backpackers or not. Those attending all inclusive tours cannot do much about it anyways. For some reason you see the group as a battle ground. When one says his room is tidy, you say there are cockroaches in the room. |
#59
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Advice re hotels in BKK please...
Sjoerd wrote:
"Tchiowa" schreef in bericht om... Tourists who are relatively well off or who have someone else (like their boss) paying for the hotel will insist on the JW Marriott. I am in the top 2% income earners in my country, which is probably within the top 5% in the USA, so I guess I qualify for being "relatively well off". I am perfectly happy in my 980 baht hotel in Bangkok and wouldn't even think about spending more for the same quality in a JW Marriott or other over-priced hotel. Again, my BKK hotel is spotlessly clean, has comfortable beds, nice bathroom, nice carpeting, TV with more channels than I have at home (I have 32 at home), A/C works fine and doesn't make much noise, there is a small table, a desk and 3 chairs in the room, there is a safe in the room, the staff are friendly and helpful, breakfast is very reasonable, the location of the hotel is central and there are several shops, restaurants, Internet cafes around the corner. Sjoerd Does spotlessly clean mean not roachy? |
#60
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Advice re hotels in BKK please...
Tchiowa wrote:
Actually this is one of the points I was trying to get across. I have never stayed at the Grace but have visited there with friends and I definitely recall the occasional "critter" scurrying through the lobby. Perhaps they rode your shoes from the Peninsula? I have an eagle-eye for vermin, and in the space of a week I never saw any in the lobby or my room. Which is more than I can say for plenty of other more expensive hotels in various places. If someone wants to say "I am a backpacker and if you're willing to accept a few inconveniences then X hotel is a great bargain" I have no issue with that. But when they say "If you stay at X hotel you'll live like a king" when in fact you'll be dodging cockroaches all night then I think that post needs to be challenged. A) Nobody said anyone was going to be living like a king, only that all ordinary and expected tourist-class facilities were provided. B) I think you've invented the cockroach thing in response to a lack of other arguments. It's convenient because nobody can disprove that you saw a cockroach on your putative historical visit. However it came out very late in the discussion, which is highly suspicious. miguel -- Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu |
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