Trip Report - Singapore / Malaysia

Retired wrote:
Not so long ago, on an SAfrica newsgroup, it was quoted that the wearing
of a full black burka in the street was only introduced a few years ago in
countries like Afganistan and others...

And the decision was welcomed by the women there !!!

It was a new sign of freedom,
before that, men forbade the women to go out in the street on their own
FULL STOP

A friend of mine from the conservative north of Pakistan was returning home
after a few years in the USA. I asked her if she was going to miss anything
after she left.

"Well, you know, just walking around here," she said.

"Yeah, this part of town is great for walks. But I'm sure there are areas of
your city that are quiet and pretty too."

"No," she said, "I just mean walking around outside. When I go home I can't
do that."

It was the kind of thing I sort of knew on a factual level already, but to
hear it in such a direct way from someone I knew as an avid user of parks
and restaurants and cafes really brought home how different life can be in
various places.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos from 30 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu

Retired wrote:
Not so long ago, on an SAfrica newsgroup, it was quoted that the wearing
of a full black burka in the street was only introduced a few years ago in
countries like Afganistan and others...

And the decision was welcomed by the women there !!!

It was a new sign of freedom,
before that, men forbade the women to go out in the street on their own
FULL STOP

A friend of mine from the conservative north of Pakistan was returning home
after a few years in the USA. I asked her if she was going to miss anything
after she left.

"Well, you know, just walking around here," she said.

"Yeah, this part of town is great for walks. But I'm sure there are areas of
your city that are quiet and pretty too."

"No," she said, "I just mean walking around outside. When I go home I can't
do that."

It was the kind of thing I sort of knew on a factual level already, but to
hear it in such a direct way from someone I knew as an avid user of parks
and restaurants and cafes really brought home how different life can be in
various places.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos from 30 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu

On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 16:03:31 +0300, "Markku Grönroos"
wrote:


"Pan" kirjoitti viestissä
.. .

If my experience last summer is anything to judge by, Jewish tourists
are welcome in Malaysia, but you probably wouldn't recognize them

Unless they are Israeli citizens. At least a couple of years ago Israeli
citizens (not only Jewish) were not allowed to enter Malaysia.

They certainly are if they are dual citizens travelling on the
passports of countries recognized by Malaysia. Otherwise, it is to the
discretion of the Malaysian Foreign Ministry and I suppose that's
usually not that easy to obtain (except for some sports clubs).

Michael

If you would like to send a private email to me, please take out the TRASH, so to speak. Please do not email me something which you also posted.

On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 16:03:31 +0300, "Markku Grönroos"
wrote:


"Pan" kirjoitti viestissä
.. .

If my experience last summer is anything to judge by, Jewish tourists
are welcome in Malaysia, but you probably wouldn't recognize them

Unless they are Israeli citizens. At least a couple of years ago Israeli
citizens (not only Jewish) were not allowed to enter Malaysia.

They certainly are if they are dual citizens travelling on the
passports of countries recognized by Malaysia. Otherwise, it is to the
discretion of the Malaysian Foreign Ministry and I suppose that's
usually not that easy to obtain (except for some sports clubs).

Michael

If you would like to send a private email to me, please take out the TRASH, so to speak. Please do not email me something which you also posted.

On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 03:56:31 -0500, (Miguel Cruz)
wrote:

Gregory Morrow wrote:
Alfred Molon wrote:
Gregory Morrow wrote:
Despite the nice facade you saw the fact that it is a mainly Islamic
country should be a red flag to you. What is the legal status of the
women you saw, their station in life?

Excellent - women are well integrated in society and most of them have a
job.

As long as the rule of Shariah is followed women will *always* be second -
class citizens.

Well, then you should have no beef with Malaysia. Despite the efforts (on a
state level) of some in the more conservative northeastern states - who by
the way did quite poorly in the last election - sharia is not the law of the
land here. I can drink all the alcohol and eat all the pork I want, collect
interest on loans, go bowling during prayer time, and when I get busted for
using my turn signal or failing to litter, I will go before a secular judge.
[snip]

Many Malaysians claim that there's a clear difference between Shari'ah
and Hudud Law. Hudud Law specifies death for adultery, for example,
and the root of "Hudud," I understand, is "Hadd," meaning "limit" - as
in the most severe punishment that can supposedly be justified under
Sunnah (Islamic Law). There is in fact a dual legal system in
Malaysia, with Shari'ah Law coexisting with civil law. Muslims deal
with family law before Shari'ah judges. Such judges also punish
Muslims arrested by the state religious police, if you will, for
"khalwat" (a man and a woman not married to each other nor close
relatives alone together), observing "deviant" religious practices, or
apostasy (though the right to apostasize is supposedly protected under
the Malaysian constitution). Shari'ah courts have no power to impose
Hudud sentences (execution, etc.) but do impose fines and sometimes
jail people who refuse to "repent" from their doctrinal "heresy." You
may not be aware of these facts, Miguel, but if you're not, read the
Malaysian English-language papers and Malaysiakini more often and talk
to friends of yours who wouldn't mind discussing such sensitive
subjects, if you know people like that.

Michael

If you would like to send a private email to me, please take out the TRASH, so to speak. Please do not email me something which you also posted.

On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 03:56:31 -0500, (Miguel Cruz)
wrote:

Gregory Morrow wrote:
Alfred Molon wrote:
Gregory Morrow wrote:
Despite the nice facade you saw the fact that it is a mainly Islamic
country should be a red flag to you. What is the legal status of the
women you saw, their station in life?

Excellent - women are well integrated in society and most of them have a
job.

As long as the rule of Shariah is followed women will *always* be second -
class citizens.

Well, then you should have no beef with Malaysia. Despite the efforts (on a
state level) of some in the more conservative northeastern states - who by
the way did quite poorly in the last election - sharia is not the law of the
land here. I can drink all the alcohol and eat all the pork I want, collect
interest on loans, go bowling during prayer time, and when I get busted for
using my turn signal or failing to litter, I will go before a secular judge.
[snip]

Many Malaysians claim that there's a clear difference between Shari'ah
and Hudud Law. Hudud Law specifies death for adultery, for example,
and the root of "Hudud," I understand, is "Hadd," meaning "limit" - as
in the most severe punishment that can supposedly be justified under
Sunnah (Islamic Law). There is in fact a dual legal system in
Malaysia, with Shari'ah Law coexisting with civil law. Muslims deal
with family law before Shari'ah judges. Such judges also punish
Muslims arrested by the state religious police, if you will, for
"khalwat" (a man and a woman not married to each other nor close
relatives alone together), observing "deviant" religious practices, or
apostasy (though the right to apostasize is supposedly protected under
the Malaysian constitution). Shari'ah courts have no power to impose
Hudud sentences (execution, etc.) but do impose fines and sometimes
jail people who refuse to "repent" from their doctrinal "heresy." You
may not be aware of these facts, Miguel, but if you're not, read the
Malaysian English-language papers and Malaysiakini more often and talk
to friends of yours who wouldn't mind discussing such sensitive
subjects, if you know people like that.

Michael

If you would like to send a private email to me, please take out the TRASH, so to speak. Please do not email me something which you also posted.

3) SQ 106 - A really nice flight, albeit for the 1/2 hour or so it was.
THey
even completed a small meal service with full First Class Linen etc.
completed.
These guys (SQ) are good!

err...SQ as in Singapore Queer? hehehe...

Does anyone know of a good booking agent for Singapore Airlines?
I've noticed some of their international flights can be a bit pricy on their
website, but I know travel agents get discounts.

I'm think of FRA or MUC to SIN
Or LON to SIN

(I not to bothered about what country the agent is, as long as I can get the
ticket)

Thanks,

Jamie

"Pan" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 16:03:31 +0300, "Markku Grönroos"
wrote:


"Pan" kirjoitti viestissä
.. .

If my experience last summer is anything to judge by, Jewish tourists
are welcome in Malaysia, but you probably wouldn't recognize them

Unless they are Israeli citizens. At least a couple of years ago Israeli
citizens (not only Jewish) were not allowed to enter Malaysia.

They certainly are if they are dual citizens travelling on the
passports of countries recognized by Malaysia. Otherwise, it is to the
discretion of the Malaysian Foreign Ministry and I suppose that's
usually not that easy to obtain (except for some sports clubs).

Michael

If you would like to send a private email to me, please take out the
TRASH, so to speak. Please do not email me something which you also posted.

Does anyone know of a good booking agent for Singapore Airlines?
I've noticed some of their international flights can be a bit pricy on their
website, but I know travel agents get discounts.

I'm think of FRA or MUC to SIN
Or LON to SIN

(I not to bothered about what country the agent is, as long as I can get the
ticket)

Thanks,

Jamie

"Pan" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 16:03:31 +0300, "Markku Grönroos"
wrote:


"Pan" kirjoitti viestissä
.. .

If my experience last summer is anything to judge by, Jewish tourists
are welcome in Malaysia, but you probably wouldn't recognize them

Unless they are Israeli citizens. At least a couple of years ago Israeli
citizens (not only Jewish) were not allowed to enter Malaysia.

They certainly are if they are dual citizens travelling on the
passports of countries recognized by Malaysia. Otherwise, it is to the
discretion of the Malaysian Foreign Ministry and I suppose that's
usually not that easy to obtain (except for some sports clubs).

Michael

If you would like to send a private email to me, please take out the
TRASH, so to speak. Please do not email me something which you also posted.

Craig Welch wrote:
Why, there's a country I could name that just swept a crazy man into
power again ... one who invades other countries without moral or
legal justification. Can you imagine that?

Yep, Australia re-elected Howard.

:-)