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"Americans not getting bang for buck in Europe"



 
 
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  #21  
Old February 7th, 2004, 06:37 PM
Earl Evleth
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Default "Americans not getting bang for buck in Europe"

On 7/02/04 17:42, in article ,
"Sjoerd" wrote:

There are relatively few "tourist problems" in Europe. My friends who own a
hotel here in Amsterdam tell me that were indeed fewer Americans in 2003,
but more Italians, Spaniards, Scandinavians, French and Eastern Europeans
including many Russians. The number of Chinese visitors is also increasing



We just returned to Paris from the US after two weeks in Florida spending
two nights in London. The exchange rates for the dollar the the exchange
were like 53 pounds for $100. The less the spiffy hotel we were staying at
was running $140/night and a good meal was way over $100 for two, and single
ticket on the tube was close to $4.

Our Florida motel room was running $90 in Fort Lauderdale and good meals a
lot cheaper than $100 for two. What is tricky with US prices is the taxes,
our Florida lodgings has $4.50 for a state tax and $5.40 for a city tax,
these are already added into many European prices (tip also) and one only
see the total. Likewise, British hotel prices includes breakfast.

Still many Americans will figure Europe (Britain included) too expensive and
not come and stay at home. For Europeans, the US will be attractive.

The day AA flight from Boston to London was only about a quarter filled.
This is a great flight, less than 6 hours and one does not lose a night`s
sleep. The food is getting worse however. American Airline gave is a dumb
pizza going and coming back. Taking one`s own food is a necessity now.


Earl

  #22  
Old February 7th, 2004, 07:30 PM
David Horne
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Default "Americans not getting bang for buck in Europe"

Sjoerd wrote:

"freeda" schreef in bericht
...

I read an article on this in a UK broadsheet. Apperently, if you want a
Digital Camera, an iPod, and a laptop computer, you can save about 500-700
GBP, more than worth it since a return from London to NYC is under 200 GBP
and it is only a 7 hour flight.


And you have to be lucky at UK customs, too.


You'd be very unlucky if you were pulled by customs coming off a flight
from NYC to LON.

David

--
David Horne- (website under reconstruction)
davidhorne (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
  #23  
Old February 7th, 2004, 08:41 PM
Olivers
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Default "Americans not getting bang for buck in Europe"

Sjoerd muttered....


"Olivers" schreef in bericht
...
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) muttered....



Well, we enjoyed favorable exchange rates for a long, long time -
when the dollar keeps dropping in value, perhaps we should do
something about our trade deficits? (I admit my recent trip to
Vienna cost me considerably more - in US currency - than the one in
2000, but what can you expect, with our current administration?)


Quick course in Economics, Ev, the part you must have missed during
your last and lamented miseducation.....

For trade deficits, a dropping dollar makes US goods cheaper and
cheaper abroad, quickly increasing US exports (although we now
produce less exportable goods, and have not been able to produce cars
attractive to foreign purchasers).

Meanwhile, the dropping dollar causes folks to quit buying foreign
goods which begin to cost more and more (works for everything but
oil). Imports drop, the trade deficit decreases, and the dollar
strengthens.

Actually, the US dollar had become far over-valued as a number of
foreign economies had slowed/declined, and the current "adjustment"
down

represents
a reality bite for US travelers abraod, the dollar being worth closer
to what it ought to be. Sadly, for US consumers, one thing which
would cause the dollar to jump in value would be a quick increase in
US interest rates causing a flood of foreign investors to invest in
US governmental and commercial debt instruments. Immediately, US
consumers would be paying

more
for personal debt service and the interest-increase would shoe up in
price increases.

Currently, vehicles sales remain relatively high because the cost of

credit
is so low. Even imports continue to sell, because their cost of

production
is reflected in dollar values from months ago when their materials
and components were purchased, and the financing/debt costs to the US
consumer are the same whether he buys a foreign made auto or a
domestic car (and many "furrin" cars are assempled in the US (with
many US comonents).

For decades, the US, with little competition from tiny postWWII
foreign economies essentially "fixed" the value of the US dollar,
with the USTreasury and banks ever able to buy and sell funds in
amounts large enough to stabilize and fluctuation overnight. While
still the world's largest economy (by any measure or standard), the
US is no longer so dominant that it can almost effortlessly keep the
yen or the pund/franc/mark and now Euro from going up (or even down).

So, while cheap dollars make your trip to Europe expensive, cheap
dollars actually stimulate production and employment in several large
segments of the US economy (but accomplish quirky side effects such
as grave damage to a fragile Mexican economy for which the two
largest providers of funds are money sent home by Mexicans, legal and
illegal, working in the US (whose dollars will no longer buy as much)
and US tourism (declining as tickeys, hotel rooms or meals go up).
That's why Mexico, no matter the dollar's movement, does everything
possible to hold the peso in a stable relationship to it.

The over=priced dollar of the later Clinton years wasa sure-fire
inescapable predictor of "things to come" to almost every
international economist (and the pages of dozens of economic
publications, 1995-2000, were filled with dire projections). Some
folks simply didn't read (and never have).

That's how currency traders make money. Most of them read.



You forget one important fact: many currencies of important trade
partners of the USA in Asia are officially or in practice linked to
the US$. Changes in the GBP or EUR value expressed in US$ do not have
much impact on bilateral trade between the USA and these very
important trading partners in Asia.

....But Evelyn was concerned with her dollars and their value in Europe
(where the Euro as a single - almost - unitary curency makes it much harder
for the US Federal Reserve Bank to act by "playing off" US dollars and
multiple Eurpean currencies aginst each other.

You're right about the minimal effect on much Asian and substantial South
American trade (where local currencies attempt a dollar fix - or actually
are dollar-based). On the other hand, a net result will be that PCs from
Dell, Gateway and HP/Compaq, all packed with Windows OS become cheaper in
Europe, their assembly costs in Asia "dollar-based". Dell's selling a
quite well equipped up to date system (monitor, printer, and all the basic
bells and whistles) for $500 & less. Convert that to Euros, and it's
"cheap".

TMO
  #24  
Old February 7th, 2004, 09:28 PM
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
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Default "Americans not getting bang for buck in Europe"



Olivers wrote:

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) muttered...

Well, we enjoyed favorable exchange rates for a long, long time - when
the dollar keeps dropping in value, perhaps we should do something about
our trade deficits? (I admit my recent trip to Vienna cost me
considerably more - in US currency - than the one in 2000, but what can
you expect, with our current administration?)


Quick course in Economics, Ev, the part you must have missed during your
last and lamented miseducation.....


Not exactly "miseducation", since I attended one of the most respected
smaller liberal arts instutions in the U.S. (as did Kofi Anan, Walter
Mondale, and a few other rather prominent journalists, diplomats and
politicians). However, my field of expertise is music, not economics -
in fact the latter made so little sense to my logical mind that I barely
passed the course. (Which I only took to help fulfill graduation
requirements.) Before you make any more snide remarks, I base my claim
to a "logical mind" on the fact that I "broke" the logical reasoning
segments in several standardized tests.

So, while cheap dollars make your trip to Europe expensive, cheap dollars
actually stimulate production and employment in several large segments of
the US economy


Tell that to all the Americans out of work - a great many of them SINCE
the current administration took office!


The over=priced dollar of the later Clinton years wasa sure-fire
inescapable predictor of "things to come" to almost every international
economist (and the pages of dozens of economic publications, 1995-2000,
were filled with dire projections). Some folks simply didn't read (and
never have).

That's how currency traders make money. Most of them read.


I really appreciate the courtesy of your reply - obviously YOUR
"miseducation" did not include diplomacy!
  #25  
Old February 7th, 2004, 09:39 PM
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
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Posts: n/a
Default "Americans not getting bang for buck in Europe"



Sjoerd wrote:

"Michael Gallagher" schreef in bericht
...
On 6 Feb 2004 07:43:17 -0800, (Mike) wrote:

Americans not getting bang for buck in Europe


I'm a little reticent to blame all the tourist troubles Europe is
having on the weak dollar. On average, people plan their vacations
about six to nine months in advance, sometimes longer. So what
Americans were thinking about Europe earlier this year may be as
important as what the exchange rate is now.


There are relatively few "tourist problems" in Europe. My friends who own a
hotel here in Amsterdam tell me that were indeed fewer Americans in 2003,
but more Italians, Spaniards, Scandinavians, French and Eastern Europeans
including many Russians. The number of Chinese visitors is also increasing
rapidly.


That's certainly true of my Vienna hotel over the Christmas hoildays! A
real problem for the wait staff, most of whom spoke at least two other
languages, but not Chinese (and quite a few of the Chinese guests did
not appear to speak anything but Chinese, although some spoke a little
English). Fortunately most of the Chinese appeared to be members of
organized tour groups, so they had tour directors who spoke German (or
French, or English).

Before someone flames me for saying the above, I suspect that China may
have somewhat the same situation as the U.S. - when one never NEEDS any
language but one's own, finding opportunities to practice another are
infrequent. (Also, I understand that in China there are so many
dialects that more practical language study would involve those, rather
than European languages.)
  #26  
Old February 7th, 2004, 09:41 PM
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
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Default "Americans not getting bang for buck in Europe"



PJ O'Donovan wrote:

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in message ...

perhaps we should do something about
our trade deficits? (I admit my recent trip to Vienna cost me
considerably more - in US currency - than the one in 2000,


but what can
you expect, with our current administration?)


Yeah, a good fuehrer would do *something* about normal cyclical
currency fluctuations and while he was at it he should do *something*
about tooth decay and hemorrhoids.

The oversimplifications and the simple minded limited perceptions here
are unbelievable.


As are those of the right-wing bigots! (Ithought I'd put you in my
"kill-file" - how did you show up again?)
  #27  
Old February 7th, 2004, 09:49 PM
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
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Posts: n/a
Default "Americans not getting bang for buck in Europe"



Earl Evleth wrote:

The day AA flight from Boston to London was only about a quarter filled.
This is a great flight, less than 6 hours and one does not lose a night`s
sleep. The food is getting worse however. American Airline gave is a dumb
pizza going and coming back. Taking one`s own food is a necessity now.


I question your use of the word "necessity". I agree, a mediocre
microwaved pizza is not exactly haut cuisine (I think they feed them
better in First and Business Class) but it's only one meal, for heaven's
sake! (And perfectly edible, unless you are on some sort of restricted
diet - in which case you presumably inform the airline of the fact when
you book your flignt, and are served something else.) If you're hungry
you eat it, otherwise bring your own supplies (but that's a matter of
your choice, not truly "necessity").
  #28  
Old February 8th, 2004, 12:54 AM
Frank F. Matthews
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Posts: n/a
Default "Americans not getting bang for buck in Europe"

Olivers wrote:

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) muttered....


Well, we enjoyed favorable exchange rates for a long, long time - when
the dollar keeps dropping in value, perhaps we should do something about
our trade deficits? (I admit my recent trip to Vienna cost me
considerably more - in US currency - than the one in 2000, but what can
you expect, with our current administration?)


Quick course in Economics, Ev, the part you must have missed during your
last and lamented miseducation.....

For trade deficits, a dropping dollar makes US goods cheaper and cheaper
abroad, quickly increasing US exports (although we now produce less
exportable goods, and have not been able to produce cars attractive to
foreign purchasers).

Meanwhile, the dropping dollar causes folks to quit buying foreign goods
which begin to cost more and more (works for everything but oil). Imports
drop, the trade deficit decreases, and the dollar strengthens.

Actually, the US dollar had become far over-valued as a number of foreign
economies had slowed/declined, and the current "adjustment" down represents
a reality bite for US travelers abraod, the dollar being worth closer to
what it ought to be. Sadly, for US consumers, one thing which would cause
the dollar to jump in value would be a quick increase in US interest rates
causing a flood of foreign investors to invest in US governmental and
commercial debt instruments. Immediately, US consumers would be paying more
for personal debt service and the interest-increase would shoe up in price
increases.

Currently, vehicles sales remain relatively high because the cost of credit
is so low. Even imports continue to sell, because their cost of production
is reflected in dollar values from months ago when their materials and
components were purchased, and the financing/debt costs to the US consumer
are the same whether he buys a foreign made auto or a domestic car (and
many "furrin" cars are assempled in the US (with many US comonents).

For decades, the US, with little competition from tiny postWWII foreign
economies essentially "fixed" the value of the US dollar, with the
USTreasury and banks ever able to buy and sell funds in amounts large
enough to stabilize and fluctuation overnight. While still the world's
largest economy (by any measure or standard), the US is no longer so
dominant that it can almost effortlessly keep the yen or the
pund/franc/mark and now Euro from going up (or even down).

So, while cheap dollars make your trip to Europe expensive, cheap dollars
actually stimulate production and employment in several large segments of
the US economy (but accomplish quirky side effects such as grave damage to
a fragile Mexican economy for which the two largest providers of funds are
money sent home by Mexicans, legal and illegal, working in the US (whose
dollars will no longer buy as much) and US tourism (declining as tickeys,
hotel rooms or meals go up). That's why Mexico, no matter the dollar's
movement, does everything possible to hold the peso in a stable
relationship to it.

The over=priced dollar of the later Clinton years wasa sure-fire
inescapable predictor of "things to come" to almost every international
economist (and the pages of dozens of economic publications, 1995-2000,
were filled with dire projections). Some folks simply didn't read (and
never have).

That's how currency traders make money. Most of them read.
TMO


You view if economics needs a quick insight into inertia. Most severe
drops in currency value have resulted in significant increases in trade
deficits. The volume of product being moved shifts much more slowly
than the value changes. Thus similar quantities in/out result in higher
deficits. Now an inability to borrow and finance the deficit may have
an impact but the shift in purchases is slow. FFM

  #29  
Old February 8th, 2004, 12:57 AM
Frank F. Matthews
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Americans not getting bang for buck in Europe"

Sjoerd wrote:

"Olivers" schreef in bericht
...

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) muttered....


Well, we enjoyed favorable exchange rates for a long, long time - when
the dollar keeps dropping in value, perhaps we should do something about
our trade deficits? (I admit my recent trip to Vienna cost me
considerably more - in US currency - than the one in 2000, but what can
you expect, with our current administration?)


Quick course in Economics, Ev, the part you must have missed during your
last and lamented miseducation.....

For trade deficits, a dropping dollar makes US goods cheaper and cheaper
abroad, quickly increasing US exports (although we now produce less
exportable goods, and have not been able to produce cars attractive to
foreign purchasers).

Meanwhile, the dropping dollar causes folks to quit buying foreign goods
which begin to cost more and more (works for everything but oil). Imports
drop, the trade deficit decreases, and the dollar strengthens.

Actually, the US dollar had become far over-valued as a number of foreign
economies had slowed/declined, and the current "adjustment" down


represents

a reality bite for US travelers abraod, the dollar being worth closer to
what it ought to be. Sadly, for US consumers, one thing which would cause
the dollar to jump in value would be a quick increase in US interest rates
causing a flood of foreign investors to invest in US governmental and
commercial debt instruments. Immediately, US consumers would be paying more
for personal debt service and the interest-increase would shoe up in price
increases.


Currently, vehicles sales remain relatively high because the cost of credit
is so low. Even imports continue to sell, because their cost of production
is reflected in dollar values from months ago when their materials and
components were purchased, and the financing/debt costs to the US consumer
are the same whether he buys a foreign made auto or a domestic car (and
many "furrin" cars are assempled in the US (with many US comonents).

For decades, the US, with little competition from tiny postWWII foreign
economies essentially "fixed" the value of the US dollar, with the
USTreasury and banks ever able to buy and sell funds in amounts large
enough to stabilize and fluctuation overnight. While still the world's
largest economy (by any measure or standard), the US is no longer so
dominant that it can almost effortlessly keep the yen or the
pund/franc/mark and now Euro from going up (or even down).

So, while cheap dollars make your trip to Europe expensive, cheap dollars
actually stimulate production and employment in several large segments of
the US economy (but accomplish quirky side effects such as grave damage to
a fragile Mexican economy for which the two largest providers of funds are
money sent home by Mexicans, legal and illegal, working in the US (whose
dollars will no longer buy as much) and US tourism (declining as tickeys,
hotel rooms or meals go up). That's why Mexico, no matter the dollar's
movement, does everything possible to hold the peso in a stable
relationship to it.

The over=priced dollar of the later Clinton years wasa sure-fire
inescapable predictor of "things to come" to almost every international
economist (and the pages of dozens of economic publications, 1995-2000,
were filled with dire projections). Some folks simply didn't read (and
never have).

That's how currency traders make money. Most of them read.


You forget one important fact: many currencies of important trade partners
of the USA in Asia are officially or in practice linked to the US$. Changes
in the GBP or EUR value expressed in US$ do not have much impact on
bilateral trade between the USA and these very important trading partners in
Asia.
Sjoerd


Good point. They will enjoy seeing europe take what economic hit there
is in the export area. FFM

  #30  
Old February 8th, 2004, 01:00 AM
Frank F. Matthews
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Posts: n/a
Default "Americans not getting bang for buck in Europe"

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:

Olivers wrote:

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) muttered...

Well, we enjoyed favorable exchange rates for a long, long time - when
the dollar keeps dropping in value, perhaps we should do something about
our trade deficits? (I admit my recent trip to Vienna cost me
considerably more - in US currency - than the one in 2000, but what can
you expect, with our current administration?)


Quick course in Economics, Ev, the part you must have missed during your
last and lamented miseducation.....


Not exactly "miseducation", since I attended one of the most respected
smaller liberal arts instutions in the U.S. (as did Kofi Anan, Walter
Mondale, and a few other rather prominent journalists, diplomats and
politicians). However, my field of expertise is music, not economics -
in fact the latter made so little sense to my logical mind that I barely
passed the course. (Which I only took to help fulfill graduation
requirements.) Before you make any more snide remarks, I base my claim
to a "logical mind" on the fact that I "broke" the logical reasoning
segments in several standardized tests.


So, while cheap dollars make your trip to Europe expensive, cheap dollars
actually stimulate production and employment in several large segments of
the US economy


Tell that to all the Americans out of work - a great many of them SINCE
the current administration took office!


Actually, the drop in the dollar might help except that it hasn't
dropped with respect to most economies that US jobs are being shifted
to. I know that the UK & Ireland have both taken significant hits in
the jobs area as well. FFM

The over=priced dollar of the later Clinton years wasa sure-fire
inescapable predictor of "things to come" to almost every international
economist (and the pages of dozens of economic publications, 1995-2000,
were filled with dire projections). Some folks simply didn't read (and
never have).

That's how currency traders make money. Most of them read.


I really appreciate the courtesy of your reply - obviously YOUR
"miseducation" did not include diplomacy!


 




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