Mex, TexMex etc.

"Frank F. Matthews" wrote in message
.. .

Sorry Charlie but flour is a common choice in Texas as well. FFM


No need to be sorry. Of course flour tortillas are common in Texas. My main
point was that they are not Tex-Mex.

Charlie

"Charles Gifford" vented spleen or mostly
mumbled...


"Frank F. Matthews" wrote in message
.. .

Sorry Charlie but flour is a common choice in Texas as well. FFM


No need to be sorry. Of course flour tortillas are common in Texas. My
main point was that they are not Tex-Mex.

These days, TexMex takes a back seat to regional Mexican fare where I live.
In a single square mile of the South Waco "Barrio" (which we never thought
of as such until those SoCalians fixed on the term), I can dine, modestly
to very well, on a half dozen different styles of Mexican food and a bit of
Teco, although no Yucatecan at the moment. The currently "in" joint is a
Vera Cruz/Tampico style seafood house (where you bring your own beer and
wine, no corkage fee), currently much flavored by the White House press
Corps, who vacation here in August, ruining local modest prices with their
flagrant display of no limit net work Amex cards.

I even know a lady who has returned to making Christmas tamales, the sweet
dessert sort, a relic of yesteryear.

As for tortillas de harina ("flour"), formerly offered here as a festive
holiday supplement, their origin and use follows two paths....

In parts of Mexico, climate and rainfall are suitable for growing wheat.
While not entirely "Sonoran", wheat farming areas tend to be cattle raising
areas, where cheap beef was available and where even Mexicans of modest
income ate beef. Flour tortillas have over time become associated with
grilled beef.

The second trail parallels a Southern US "tradition", the "income
improves/type of bread changes" pattern. Here, we started with cornbread
as subsistence farmers, moved to flour biscuits when we had cash for wheat
flour, and like my grandmother, thought that offering "store bought" "light
bread" was a display of couth and sophistication. In Mexico, folks who
could afford flour tortillas (or wanted thir neighbors to think they could)
served'em.

"Texan" - Chili (except not the kind made with hamburger meat or in Cincy)

"TexMex" - Meat in enchiladas, great mounds of yeller cheese, chopped
onions, etc.

"Mexican" - a thousand things, but no meat in the enchiladas, and not much
cheese and most of it's white and crumbly.

None of the above: Store-bought or frozen "margaritas" including any such
beverage made with "aged" tequila. Margaritas are "fancy hotel bar"
creations by which gringos could be induced to drink tequila, and simply
didn't appear outside of the tourist environment (and still don't outside
touristy areas or cities. Aged tequilas wewre saved to drink. margaritas
were perfect for peddling the harsher, heavier flavored (but no longer,
since many are cut with grain alkies) Blanco/unaged varieties.

.....and Doroteo Arango was a temperance man (and if you don't know his
"working name" name, too bad....)

TMO

TMOliver wrote in message ...
"Charles Gifford" vented spleen or mostly
mumbled...


"Frank F. Matthews" wrote in message
.. .

Sorry Charlie but flour is a common choice in Texas as well. FFM


No need to be sorry. Of course flour tortillas are common in Texas. My
main point was that they are not Tex-Mex.



I even know a lady who has returned to making Christmas tamales, the sweet
dessert sort, a relic of yesteryear.

Ah, not so sure ;-). "True" tamales are as variable as the Mexican
people. Our multi-generation family tamales of 'yesteryear' are
savory, not sweet. Made with pork and chile. My grandmother would turn
her nose up at sweet tamales My family still make them for
Christmas eve dinner, but has scaled down production.

Our tortillas were also made with flour. The family is from Sonora.

I actually prefer corn tortillas these days, but grew up with fresh
homemade flour tortillas.

snipped historical perspective on flour tortillas

Out of curiosity, what was your source for the info? Not to disagree,
because I agree, just wouldn't mind reading it. An excellent book on
the topic of Mexican cuisine is "Que Vivan Los Tamales", which
adresses the issue of food and culture intertwined (your points sound
like they're from that book, tho I don't recall the details well
enough to verify)

snipped historical perspective on flour/corn/cardboard/aerolam tortillas

In Europe (for 'tis such a group), I suspect most people don't care.
Dave

(XOR) vented spleen or mostly mumbled...

TMOliver wrote in message



I even know a lady who has returned to making Christmas tamales, the
sweet dessert sort, a relic of yesteryear.

Ah, not so sure ;-). "True" tamales are as variable as the Mexican
people. Our multi-generation family tamales of 'yesteryear' are
savory, not sweet. Made with pork and chile. My grandmother would turn
her nose up at sweet tamales My family still make them for
Christmas eve dinner, but has scaled down production.

Our tortillas were also made with flour. The family is from Sonora.

I actually prefer corn tortillas these days, but grew up with fresh
homemade flour tortillas.

snipped historical perspective on flour tortillas

Out of curiosity, what was your source for the info? Not to disagree,
because I agree, just wouldn't mind reading it. An excellent book on
the topic of Mexican cuisine is "Que Vivan Los Tamales", which
adresses the issue of food and culture intertwined (your points sound
like they're from that book, tho I don't recall the details well
enough to verify)


I haven't seen the book, having acquired tortilla perspective mostly from
having grown up on the edge of the tortilla culture and traveling in
Mexico.

I didn't mean to imply that we don't get plenty of the traditional savory
tamales (always here homemade with pork, although plenty of good quality
"storeboughts" come with beef or even these days turkey). Homemade or
small batch tamales are available from a number of small suppliers. Along
with the Fiesta grocery chain, a major bread supplier owned by Mexican
"Bembo" and a MA population over 25%, we've even got restaurants where the
tortillas are "fresh", hand patted instead of machined and "cooked before
your very eyes". The sweet tamales are an "old Mexican" Christams custom,
not much seen in more, I suppose from the same school which still puts
raisins in picadillo.

There are a couple Spanish cafe's here that still make their own flour
tortilla's. Whether flour or corn tortilla's are used depends on the
dish, corn for enchilada's, flour for chimichanga's, etc. Probably used
about equally.

I've not seen sweet tamales here, usually they are made with pork and
the hottest chile sauce you can find. Pork optional of course. Wash
down with a couple fresh jalapenos.....
--
wf.


TMOliver wrote:

we've even got restaurants where the
tortillas are "fresh", hand patted instead of machined and "cooked before
your very eyes". The sweet tamales are an "old Mexican" Christams custom,
not much seen in more, I suppose from the same school which still puts
raisins in picadillo.

--
wf.
Wayne Flowers
Randee Greenwald

randee wrote in message ...
There are a couple Spanish cafe's here that still make their own flour
tortilla's. Whether flour or corn tortilla's are used depends on the
dish, corn for enchilada's, flour for chimichanga's, etc. Probably used
about equally.


A *Spanish* tortilla would not be made of flour. It would be made with
eggs, potatoes, maybe a few other things. It's a lot like an omlette
or fritata.

A *Mexican* tortilla would be made of flour or corn.

Spanish cooking is very very different from Mexican cooking. Equally
good, just VERY different, even if the cooks speak a similar language

TMOliver wrote in message ...

I didn't mean to imply that we don't get plenty of the traditional savory
tamales (always here homemade with pork, although plenty of good quality
"storeboughts" come with beef or even these days turkey). Homemade or
small batch tamales are available from a number of small suppliers. Along
with the Fiesta grocery chain, a major bread supplier owned by Mexican
"Bembo" and a MA population over 25%, we've even got restaurants where the
tortillas are "fresh", hand patted instead of machined and "cooked before
your very eyes".

My house in San Antonio is just around the corner from a long ago
established, well known Mexican place. Well, my whole neighbourhood is
Mexican ;-). They make their corn tortillas fresh, hand patted. First
Saturday of the month, a bowl of menudo [1] and fresh corn tortillas
are heaven!

The sweet tamales are an "old Mexican" Christams custom,
not much seen in more, I suppose from the same school which still puts
raisins in picadillo.

My family - and the many Mexican families (new immigrants most of
them) in the area I grew up in So Cal - always claimed this was simply
regional variation. Our traditional/old Mexican custom Christmas
tamales (*only* made at Christmas time) were savoury. Other friends'
families' traditional Christmas tamales were sweet. They are *both*
old Mexican customs for Christmas. How they are made (banana leaf v.
corn husk, pineapple /raisins or pork) tend to reflect locally
available ingredients and regional variations in Mexican cuisine. My
maternal family is originally Sonoran. Given the different climates
and vegetation throughout the country, the variations in cuisine are
incredible.

I don't particularly like sweet tamales so don't get them, but they
abound in my old SoCal neighborhood at Christmas time. I've yet to be
in San Antonio in December, so can't say, but will this year and will
look! Tho I am hoping to get in on the family tamale making session. I
am kind of a tamale snob. It's one of those things I almost *never*
buy/order, because no matter how good, it is 'just not the same.'


[1] their menudo is red, while I prefer clear/white, beacuse that is
also what I grew up with - another regional variation, and apparently,
less common. And tho also "just not the same", my cravings for it are
too powerful to ignore (I can make it myself, but need to plan in
advance)


Sigh...........now I am craving Mexican food and there is none to be
had will have to settle for gai phad phrik.

On topic Europe : But will be in Ireland in a few days so am eagerly
looking forward to some Guinness!! Any food suggestions for Ireland?
:0

Cafe's & restaurants? The Krogers here make fresh tortillas by hand in
house. As to hot the hottest hot sauce I've found is made in Columbus,
Ohio. FFM

randee wrote:
There are a couple Spanish cafe's here that still make their own flour
tortilla's. Whether flour or corn tortilla's are used depends on the
dish, corn for enchilada's, flour for chimichanga's, etc. Probably used
about equally.

I've not seen sweet tamales here, usually they are made with pork and
the hottest chile sauce you can find. Pork optional of course. Wash
down with a couple fresh jalapenos..... wf.

TMOliver wrote:
we've even got restaurants where the
tortillas are "fresh", hand patted instead of machined and "cooked before
your very eyes". The sweet tamales are an "old Mexican" Christams custom,
not much seen in more, I suppose from the same school which still puts
raisins in picadillo.

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 17:20:40 GMT, "Frank F. Matthews"
wrote:

Cafe's & restaurants? The Krogers here make fresh tortillas by hand in
house.

Yep. The H-E-Bs (Platinum and Central Market) do too. I frequently get
a bag of hot tortillas just before I check out to eat on the way home.

Mary