art auctions

On 2/10/06 10:45 AM RICK DAVIS consulted a Magic 8 Ball and declared:
Dorthy, I paid the set price. But it was not an unlimited supply. I
think there were only 6 limited editions of 1 and a dozen of the other I
bought. But if you walk into a Kinkade gallery they are also set
prices. Thomas Kinkade doesn't set the price of any of his works. Each
work goes thru many people before it reaches the buyer. Another reason
an original work is almost impossible to get and why there is a buyers
premium. Each person along the line gets a piece of the sale. But
the set price of each on the ship was well below the Kinkade Gallery
price. People need to be educated on the prices before they buy.
Just like the average person price shops for a new washer or dryer they
need to be aware of current art prices as well.


It may not be a painting or lithograph of a Campbell Soup Can but the
concept is the same.

--
________
To email me, Edit "blog" from my email address.
Brian M. Kochera
"Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once!"
View My Web Page: http://home.earthlink.net/~brian1951

To BB - Please attend one art auction if you have an interest. There
are some very twisted people who give very bad advice in this group.
Determine for yourself and talk to some others who attend. You can
see from other peoples posts that this is a heated discussion.


To all the others - You are all missing the point. What I call art
and enjoy and what you call art and enjoy doesn't matter. The point
here is everyone is so negative about Park West. Let the original
poster go to an auction and decide for herself. Let her learn something
for herself. Some of you snobs have openly decided what is art and what
isn't. The original poster has the right to decide for herself if its
worth while. I have yet to hear anyone of you admit that Park West does
sell Originals. You all throw out phrases like, "copies", "paint by
numbers", "reprints". What about the Original Picasso hand sketches -
or is that not art and just a copy also? How about the original Peter
Max they have? Basically you few people deem what is acceptable and
tell the rest of us walking talking idiots that we are inferior to your
superior taste and knowledge in art. NEWS FLASH - Thats a snob! I am
not praising Park West in this group. I am saying like the other poster
stated (seahorsep) its a great opportunity to learn something about art.
Maybe take that new found education home with them and get their feet
wet buying at a local gallery or local art show. Maybe even buying at
mall. If they enjoy it what the hell is wrong with that? Except that a
few of you have passed your personal judgement on it. Some of you nice
folks need to remember that people come to this group in search of some
advice. Personal opinions are part of that. But lies and half truths
slant those opinions in a unfair direction. Just remember the advice
you give might mean the difference of someone doing something that might
expand their minds. I know thats a hard concept for some of you to
understand. New concepts in narrow minds don't tend to work together.

RICK DAVIS wrote:
If they enjoy it what the hell is wrong with that? Except that a
few of you have passed your personal judgement on it.

Rick,

You are correct that the shipboard art auctions can sometimes be
educational and even entertaining. At the very least it's as good
enough excuse to get out of the sun for a bit as any other. But IMHO,
I do believe that most of the time the auctioneers employ enough fast
talk and doublespeak to convince "bidders" to get caught up in the
(boozed enhanced) moment to buy something they would think twice about
otherwise. I've observed that some people who spend a lot of money at
these shipboard auctions often display a faux expertise of what is and
is not art. On a cruise I took in early 2005 I had the opportunity to
have drinks with the shipboard auctioneers. I won't name names, but
they actually mocked the folks who buy so many of the Kinkades sold
aboard ship (I think the term they used was "shlock") and at the same
time acknowledged them as surefire profit makers.

I always ask myself this question: if the art sold aboard is so
valuable, why then are they left out on display overnight? I've seen
some of the pieces being sold aboard ship on display at my local Bed
Bath and Beyond for $50: the same prints on canvas, with the same added
brush strokes. I've seen most of the works available on art.com priced
rather cheaply. It's when you add the frame that the price spikes
nearly 10 fold.

IMHO, and yes in my "personal judgement" I equate the "art" sold aboard
ships to the inch of gold sales they set up in the atrium. It may be
shiny and pretty, but fine jewelry it certainly isn't. It's costume
gold plated jewelry, just as most of the pieces sold aboard are
"fakes". I'm not saying there's anything wrong with buying either
product. It's fun to buy tschokes on vacation. But you seem to take it
personally when this is all pointed out. Don't be a "snob" who won't
allow all opinions to be posted to a question.

Add me to the list of people who would rather buy truly original works
from local (currently unknown) artists during my travels and make it a
point to do so. If I can buy the exact same "work" of art at my local
BB&B or online at art.com there's no advantage to buying it aboard a
ship and certainly no savings. Whenever I look at the original
paintings hanging on my walls I enjoy knowing that nobody else in the
world can say the same. Enjoy your Kinkades, but hundreds or thousands
of others have duplicates - and to me that diminishes the personal
"value" of the piece regardless of what other copies sell for in a
"gallery."

Warren --- who studied Art History in college many moons ago.

RICK DAVIS wrote:
My Thomas Kinkade's were purchased for hundreds less on board than in
the local gallery. Many hundreds less. I took the paperwork and bill
of sale into my local gallery and was informed by the gallery it was a
fantastic deal and they could have never sold me what I bought for at
the price I bought for. So its not all smoke and mirrors. Shortly
after I bought "Quiet Evening" it sold out. It has increased in value
and is a signed & numbered limited edition.

While nothing you've written is incorrect, it misses an important point.
If you decide to sell your Kinkade, you'll need a buyer. A gallery won't
buy it from you at the current retail value. If they did, the gallery
would have to increase the selling price to make a profit. No one will
buy a readily available print from one gallery for $X+ when that same
print is available for $X at a different gallery. Admittedly, in these
days of ebay and craigslist, you might be able to find a buyer willing
to pay full retail. However, I hope you're not expecting the full retail
value if you sell to a gallery even if that same gallery handles Kinkades.

Karen Selwyn

Rick,

I like your attitude and agree, art is in the eye of the beholder, we should
all buy what pleases us.

The only quibble I have is with the concept that there are "original
Picassos," for example, on cruise ship auctions. I think one will find Park
West and other cruise ship auctioneers are not vouching for the provenance
one would expect when the word "original" is used.

Diana Ball
near Houston, TX

On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 10:23:24 -0500 in rec.travel.cruises,
(RICK DAVIS) wrote:

Charles, Not many people own and original Kinkade or any well known
artist for that matter.

Not that the originals would be worth owning. His junk is the
WORST "art" I've ever seen, just pure schmalz. I'm astonished
that anyone would pay for his junk.

They might be pictures, but they're NOT art.

He and his printers do run a good scam, though. Like Mencken
said, you can't underestimate the taste of the American public.

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 00:45:07 -0900,
(Dennis P. Harris) wrote:
On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 10:23:24 -0500 in rec.travel.cruises,
(RICK DAVIS) wrote:

Charles, Not many people own and original Kinkade or any well known
artist for that matter.

Not that the originals would be worth owning. His junk is the
WORST "art" I've ever seen, just pure schmalz. I'm astonished
that anyone would pay for his junk.

They might be pictures, but they're NOT art.

He and his printers do run a good scam, though. Like Mencken
said, you can't underestimate the taste of the American public.

Oh, one of my favorite quotes! It's actually:

"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the
American public. "

Art is subjective, of course, but true art isn't mass-produced like
his.

--
Face your fears.
Live your dreams.

On 2/14/06 4:45 AM Dennis P. Harris consulted a Magic 8 Ball and declared:
On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 10:23:24 -0500 in rec.travel.cruises,
(RICK DAVIS) wrote:


Charles, Not many people own and original Kinkade or any well known
artist for that matter.


Not that the originals would be worth owning. His junk is the
WORST "art" I've ever seen, just pure schmalz. I'm astonished
that anyone would pay for his junk.

They might be pictures, but they're NOT art.

He and his printers do run a good scam, though. Like Mencken
said, you can't underestimate the taste of the American public.


Or, as P.T. Barnum said: "There's a sucker born every minute!"

--
________
To email me, Edit "blog" from my email address.
Brian M. Kochera
"Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once!"
View My Web Page: http://home.earthlink.net/~brian1951

Dear Peanut Dick G.,

CHARLES IS STUPID!!! Just look at all of his posts on the GGC2006 with
his fault finding ways. Please, as a well weathered and beautifully
tanned cruiser, I'm offended by his negative existence....

I've been s-a-v-v-y to this joint for years.

Dear Peanut Brian K:

Or, as P.T. Barnum said: "There's a sucker born every minute!"

And you know a lot about sucking.

How dare you pontificate about what is and what is not art!!! When a
guy or a woman wearing Doc Martins spends their lifetime perfecting
their vision, I call it FABULOUS!!!