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#21
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PLS HELP: use of tickets with connection
On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:35:24 -0700, "Peter L"
wrote: I am quite sure no one can toss an earlier segment and still have later segments honored. But I don't see any ethnical problem with tossing the last segment of a ticket. Only if one is an ethnic. (I couldn't resist) I feel pretty much the same but I remain aware that it is a violation of the contract and therefore bears a taint of lack of ethics. ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
#22
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PLS HELP: use of tickets with connection
"Juliana L Holm" wrote in message ... In rec.travel.europe Binyamin Dissen wrote: I make no such promise. Perhaps you do? Actually, Legally you do, as when you buy a ticket you are buying a contract of carriage, and by implication accepting the restrictions associated with the fares. I have no doubt that people get away with using only part of tickets, but if you do not abide by the contract of carriage, then the airline has a legal right to refuse you boarding on a later segment. Sometimes I toss the tickets. I have no problem with this. If you are denied boarding some day because you tossed an earlier portion of a ticket, though, I would not be shocked. I am quite sure no one can toss an earlier segment and still have later segments honored. But I don't see any ethnical problem with tossing the last segment of a ticket. Julie -- Binyamin Dissen http://www.dissensoftware.com -- Julie ********** Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm |
#23
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PLS HELP: use of tickets with connection
On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:10:59 -0700, Malcolm Weir wrote:
On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:02:50 +0300, Binyamin Dissen wrote: [ Snip ] no, I do not have an ethical problem with using just part of a purchased service. What Mr. Dissen meant to write is: "I do not have an ethical problem with lying to obtain preferential pricing when purchasing a service". So? Do you think most businesses have a problem with lying to you when marketing their junk? The issue is contractual, not ethical, I submit. |
#24
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PLS HELP: use of tickets with connection
On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:35:22 -0600, Hatunen wrote:
On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:23:56 GMT, "George Greene" wrote: mrtravel wrote in message news:tXHcb.9506 You and the airline agree to the rules regarding the tariff you bought the ticket under. These rules state that you fly the segments in the order they are booked and that you fly all segments. The airline may be agreeing to those rules, but I am NOT agreeing, not what how you wish to interpet things Oh, you are agreeing, at least legally, and it is an enforceable contract. That fact that you have your fingers crossed when making the agreement doesn't legally absolve you of the agreement, nor does the fact that you can frequently get away with violating the agreement, as when a round trip ticket from At to C through B costs less than a oneway ticket from A to B, and you simply toss the rest of the ticket on arriving at B. The airline's recourse is negligible, whether legally enforceable or not. The airline's recourse is not negligible should you wish to use the ticket from B to C because the RT A to C is cheaper; failure to show up for the leg from A to B will result in automatic cancellation of the leg from B to C (as well as the return trip). If the airlines were so sure it is indeed enforceable, surely they would try their best to have it tested in court? Until then, I'll take the view that these rules are not enforceable, so these parts of the CoC are not part of the contract. |
#25
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PLS HELP: use of tickets with connection
devil wrote:
If the airlines were so sure it is indeed enforceable, surely they would try their best to have it tested in court? Until then, I'll take the view that these rules are not enforceable, so these parts of the CoC are not part of the contract. They have been tested in court. Try this sometime. 1. Buy a round trip ticket SFO-ORD-MIA-ORD-SFO 2. Skip the SFO-ORD flight 3. Try boarding in ORD for the flight to MIA So, if they don't let you board, are you going to sue? They have already won, in court, against travel agents that have sold tickets to avoid ticketing rules. |
#26
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PLS HELP: use of tickets with connection
On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:02:54 +0000, mrtravel wrote:
devil wrote: If the airlines were so sure it is indeed enforceable, surely they would try their best to have it tested in court? Until then, I'll take the view that these rules are not enforceable, so these parts of the CoC are not part of the contract. They have been tested in court. Try this sometime. 1. Buy a round trip ticket SFO-ORD-MIA-ORD-SFO 2. Skip the SFO-ORD flight 3. Try boarding in ORD for the flight to MIA So, if they don't let you board, are you going to sue? This is not testing in court. In situations where you would have to go to court, they win; when the situation would be for them to go to court, you win. Isn't that fair, BTW? :-) They have already won, in court, against travel agents that have sold tickets to avoid ticketing rules. Sure. But that's a very different issue. Different contract. The TA is the agent of the airline, and as such he is under contractual obligation to the airline to enforce their rules regardless of whether they would stand in court, against the customer. |
#27
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PLS HELP: use of tickets with connection
On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:20:03 -0600, Hatunen wrote:
On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:55:38 GMT, "devil" wrote: On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:35:22 -0600, Hatunen wrote: On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:23:56 GMT, "George Greene" wrote: mrtravel wrote in message news:tXHcb.9506 You and the airline agree to the rules regarding the tariff you bought the ticket under. These rules state that you fly the segments in the order they are booked and that you fly all segments. The airline may be agreeing to those rules, but I am NOT agreeing, not what how you wish to interpet things Oh, you are agreeing, at least legally, and it is an enforceable contract. That fact that you have your fingers crossed when making the agreement doesn't legally absolve you of the agreement, nor does the fact that you can frequently get away with violating the agreement, as when a round trip ticket from At to C through B costs less than a oneway ticket from A to B, and you simply toss the rest of the ticket on arriving at B. The airline's recourse is negligible, whether legally enforceable or not. The airline's recourse is not negligible should you wish to use the ticket from B to C because the RT A to C is cheaper; failure to show up for the leg from A to B will result in automatic cancellation of the leg from B to C (as well as the return trip). If the airlines were so sure it is indeed enforceable, surely they would try their best to have it tested in court? Until then, I'll take the view that these rules are not enforceable, so these parts of the CoC are not part of the contract. "Enforceable" doesn't mean "worth enforcing". Sure. Except, in the current case, surely these rules would be worth enforcing, I would think. They do go to court against TAs, against whom they have a strong case since the TAs are their agents. So, seems like they think it's worth enforcing, doesn't it? |
#28
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PLS HELP: use of tickets with connection
On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:22:39 -0600, Hatunen wrote:
On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:35:24 -0700, "Peter L" wrote: I am quite sure no one can toss an earlier segment and still have later segments honored. But I don't see any ethnical problem with tossing the last segment of a ticket. Only if one is an ethnic. (I couldn't resist) I feel pretty much the same but I remain aware that it is a violation of the contract and therefore bears a taint of lack of ethics. Violation of the letter of the contract. But when the "contract" is pure blackmail (i.e., "these are my rules, if you don't like them, go get lost"), I would expect the courts would tend to be sympathetic to the small guy. At least if there is some ground for interpretation. |
#29
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PLS HELP: use of tickets with connection
devil wrote:
Violation of the letter of the contract. But when the "contract" is pure blackmail (i.e., "these are my rules, if you don't like them, go get lost"), I would expect the courts would tend to be sympathetic to the small guy. At least if there is some ground for interpretation. They don't say "if you don't like them, get lost". They say "if you want a discounted ticket, you agree to these restrictions". They don't force you to buy a discounted ticket. |
#30
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PLS HELP: use of tickets with connection
In article , mrtravel
wrote: They have been tested in court. Try this sometime. 1. Buy a round trip ticket SFO-ORD-MIA-ORD-SFO 2. Skip the SFO-ORD flight 3. Try boarding in ORD for the flight to MIA Actually, I have done some variant on this. I had a ticket SFO-PIT-LBE-PIT-SFO. When I arrived in Latrobe, I found that I'd have to be in the airport before cabs were running and I had no way to get to the airport! I couldn't take a later flight or I'd have missed my long flight back home. So I called US Air, explained the situation, and they allowed me to skip that leg without a change fee and without cancelling my later segment. Then again, I asked ahead of time, I didn't just skip the flight. -- _Deirdre http://deirdre.net "Dogs may have kept us company on the hunt, but it was the cats who insisted we invent houses and discover fire." -- Khiem Tran |
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