Typical Muslim fascism

"Jack." wrote in message ...
Dear Ajali:

I'm a social scientist as well as a physical scientist.

I have NEVER come across the word "trigulation", nor can you find such a
word in the Oxford, Websters, Collins or Macquarie dictionaries.

Actually wrong spelling. Should have been spelt "triangulation". Check
qualititive research for the meaning.

Furthermore, you have not answered the questions posed by Observer about the
reliability and accuracy of the Hadiths, which I am curious to learn of too.
Other arguments posed by Observer were also not addressed by you. Although
Observers arguments and questions are direct and clear, I think he befuddled
it by using harsh name-calling. However, I would like to see you refute his
arguments.

Well, I don't think he was interested in real debate except to
undermined Islam. So, I don't think I am interested to participate in
that kind of activity.

On the issue of the validity, reliability and accuracy of Hadiths, I
mentioned that the researchers like Bukhari & Muslims used what is
known today as qualititive research. This was what they do :

1. They talk to people to find who has listen what the Prophets has
said - thing that were related to the religion.
2. They check the person to find out their charecter/personality and
make sure that they are not "fasiks" ( Fasiks is also Islam but not
practice Islam completely like not fasting during ramadhan).
3. If they are to be found fasiks, they will be rejected as the source
of the hadiths.
4. After completed identifying the people that were considered the
source of hadiths - The research will ask them about what he/she have
heard about what the Prophets have said.
5. The process will continue with other people ( I don't have any
reference on how many people) to ensure that each hadiths can be
verify. If only one person say that he has heard this and that and
cannot be verify by others, those hadiths will be rejected.
6. After the Hadiths has been collected/gathered, it will verify again
with the teaching of the quran - Is it in line with the teaching of
quran. If it has conflicts, that hadiths will also rejected.
8. The final products is what known among muslims today as Hadiths
Sahih.

So thats how they established the reliability and accuracy of the
Hadiths.

1. identified the people (not fasiks)
2. Comparing with others (for verification)
3. Comparing with Qur'an (documents)

The works was done not long after the Prophets death to ensure that
most people were still alive at that time.

For Qur'an its much easier - there are literally thousands of people
that can memorized it by heart all 30 juzuk (chapter). These people is
what known today as hafiz. Also done very early. If I am not mistaken,
it was done under the third Caliph - Caliph Usman. So the qur'an was
well protected on its accuracy. You can still do today. You can find
hafiz every where to compare the accuracy of it.

Thank you.

Jack.






Ajali said:
It was a meticulous process. This is what known in today's research as
"trigulation". Every hadiths when through this process of trigulation.

"mark" wrote in message
...
(ajali) wrote in
om:

What was your question?


Sorry, but that didn't answer my question.

Can *anyone* explain what other interpretations the word shahid has?

"shahid" is to die under the grace of god.

This is the true word to be used instead of Jihad for the alleged suicide
bombers,
because they "attempted" to achieve "shahid".


eg., in English, the word fat might mean the organic substances
themselves,
or might be used to describe someone's physical condition.

So, what meanings does shahid have?

Shahid is an Arabic word. Ask the Arabs how the words evolve into
meaning something else. Just as "fat" had.

On Mon, 3 May 2004 21:15:37 +0800, "Ir. Hj. Othman bin Hj. Ahmad"
wrote:


"Pan" wrote in message
.. .
On 27 Apr 2004 18:21:57 -0700, (Mr_Magoo) wrote:

Pan wrote in message
...

----snip----

...


I don't know, but the evidence is that Sultans were inviting in
Chinese people and, as far as I know, had not established a precedent
of barring further entry by Chinese people.
You must realise that there are terms and conditions associated with
their entry.

Absolutely.

And what makes you think the Chinese people
going to side with the Malay Rulers?

Why not, as long as life was good for them under Malay rule?

You must realise that they don't expect the chinese to suport them
in ways that are not in their aggreement, but some chinese were
used in wars as well, against other chinese siding with other
Malay rulers.

OK, I note this. But at a minimum, it was certainly a requirement that
those given residence in a sultanate not support its enemies. Which
doesn't mean none of them ever did.

...

My feeling is that the individual Malay states could not have
protected themselves from some foreign power or other, whether the
Dutch or perhaps the Thais or French. I think things turned out better
with the Malay states having been under British rule than in those
likely alternatives, and I say that not as someone who's particularly
pro-British, but by looking at the disastrous consequences of Dutch

These are facts. Your honesty is to be admired.

It's nice of you to say that, but these really are considered opinions
which, though supported by evidence, are not hard facts. Anyway, I
always do my best to tell things like I see them, which is not to say
that I'm not wrong sometimes.

Michael

If you would like to send a private email to me, please take out the TRASH, so to speak. Please do not email me something which you also posted.

"ajali" wrote in message
om...
"Jack." wrote in message
...
Furthermore, you have not answered the questions posed by Observer about
the
reliability and accuracy of the Hadiths, which I am curious to learn of
too.
Other arguments posed by Observer were also not addressed by you.
Although
Observers arguments and questions are direct and clear,

Well, I don't think he was interested in real debate except to
undermined Islam.

LOL.
Since when is questioning morons like
you who make unsupported statements
be considered undermining Islam?

What you want is not a debate as can
be seen from your evasion of perfectly
legitimate inquiry to your claims.
What you want is for others here to agree
with what ever you claim to be true...even
if it isn't.
You are afraid of being labelled a LIAR and
a MORON simply because you know the extent
of your inability to support even the most basic
of your claims....the correctness of the Hadiths.

I asked...how do you know they are not
falsified.....you chickened out.
You claimed that your scholars did research
to ensure the Hadiths were 100% accurate...
But what you did not say....(LIAR) is that NONE
of your scholars ever met the prophet.....no not
even those that spoke the prophet.
Is this not true?
Yes or no....
(see...I'm making the question much simpler now
so that you can't wriggle out)
And I'll save my "MORONs" when you do chicken
out again with wild unsupported statements ok...LOL


So, I don't think I am interested to participate in
that kind of activity.

Hehe...of course you're not interested to participate
when the going gets tough and you get asked
tough questions. You claim to want a debate isn't
it...

What you want is for others to nod in agreement even
though you have been proven to be BULL****TING your
way thru.


On the issue of the validity, reliability and accuracy of Hadiths, I
mentioned that the researchers like Bukhari & Muslims used what is
known today as qualititive research. This was what they do :


LOL.


1. They talk to people to find who has listen what the Prophets has
said - thing that were related to the religion.

How did they do that when the
prophet died 200 years before
they were born?
(Does this qualify for a MORON certificate?)


2. They check the person to find out their charecter/personality and
make sure that they are not "fasiks" ( Fasiks is also Islam but not
practice Islam completely like not fasting during ramadhan).

How do they determine that they were
not LYING?
Did they have a lie detector?


3. If they are to be found fasiks, they will be rejected as the source
of the hadiths.

Well apparently you're BULL****TING yet again.
200 years have passed since the prophet's death...
Those that have tranmitted the Hadiths must have gone
thru 4 or 5 generations. So how exactly did your
scholar determined the FIRST few transmitters whom
they never met...nor can ever meet anyone who knew
them?
You want to BLUFF your way thru eh?
LOL.


4. After completed identifying the people that were considered the
source of hadiths - The research will ask them about what he/she have
heard about what the Prophets have said.

Ok lar...we buy your bluff.
So can you now prove to us that such a
research can be done by you?
Go and collect data about people who have
lived 200 years ago in your neigbourhood.
Then determine their "honesty" by interviewing
your local prata man...
Go on....collect your data and prove that such
an accurate picture that you try to claim can
be achieved thru this "qualitative" research.
BTW...have you actually read the books of those
authors you quote....apparently not...LOL.
If you did...then tell us what is it they wrote after
EACH and EVERY Hadiths that they have collected.
Go on...tell us...
(Shall I write LIAR now?....LOL)


5. The process will continue with other people ( I don't have any
reference on how many people) to ensure that each hadiths can be
verify. If only one person say that he has heard this and that and
cannot be verify by others, those hadiths will be rejected.

That does not and cannot quantify that those
already collected are not FALSE...twit.
Are you saying that it is not possible for ALL
the transmitters to LIE...since you havse never
met any of them.

BTW..one more question...have you met
the authors that you quote?
Were you born in the 16th century?
If not...HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT ITsTHEIR
BOOK you're reading and not something that
has been tampered with ...but their names have
been "cetak rompak"?

Hehe...I'm sure you'll agree that all these are
SIMPLE questions with SIMPLE anwsers.
You only need to say YES or NO.
No BULL**** is required nor wanted.
Just tell us whether you knew the authors
personally and are so intimate with their works
that you can tell that their book that was written
600 years ago have not even have ONE WORD
added or deleted thoughout that time...
(Note...there's no printing back then...nor
are there any computers...so don't try to BLUFF
on that..ok...LOL)


6. After the Hadiths has been collected/gathered, it will verify again
with the teaching of the quran - Is it in line with the teaching of
quran. If it has conflicts, that hadiths will also rejected.

Ok lar...
Firstly..have you even read the Quran?
If you have not...HOW do you know that
your Hadiths do not contradict the Quran?

If you heard all this from another person and
is quoting what you've been taught....SAY SO..
and do not try to present it as if you have intimate
knowledge to certify that it is indeed the actual
case.
And if you have not verified as to the correctness
of what you've been told...then admit it as a gentleman
instead of trying to BLUFF your way....because you will
be caught.
(MORONIC LIAR comes to mind?...LOL)


8. The final products is what known among muslims today as Hadiths
Sahih.

None of which addresses whether indeed you
actually know for sure that what you read actually
came from the prophet or even the authors you claim
to have written and collected them.
You are invited to show your proof at this juncture
if you want to refute the last sentence above.
Do you know the authors personnally?
Did you meet them?
Did you talked to them?
So if no is the answer...how can you
prove that all that you read TODAY is
what came out of the prophet's mouth
SIX HUNDRED years ago?


So thats how they established the reliability and accuracy of the
Hadiths.

BULL****.
Lets give you the benefit of the doubt.
Lets assume that indeed the authors were
able to collect 100% accurate Hadiths...
So how can you prove to us that the book
of Hadiths that you hold in your hands
TODAY is the SAME book that the authors
wrote 600 years ago?
Go on...prove it...
(Hehe...are you going to say ANOTHER
qualitative study was done?...LOL)


1. identified the people (not fasiks)
2. Comparing with others (for verification)
3. Comparing with Qur'an (documents)

None of which were witnessed by
you or anyone that you can bring forward
now to testify that these were actually
carried out.
All you have is a book that said so.
Is this book from God that it is impervious
to being tampered?
Please start to give cogent anwsers now...
else I'm tempted to write MORON again...LOL.


The works was done not long after the Prophets death to ensure that
most people were still alive at that time.

BULL****.
Why don't you give us the date that
the prophet died....and then ...hehe..
give us the BIRTH date of your authors...
Please do not make me publish it here...
so that at least you can save a bit of "face"...
LOL.


For Qur'an its much easier - there are literally thousands of people
that can memorized it by heart all 30 juzuk (chapter). These people is
what known today as hafiz.

So for 600 years all these hafiz....who
lived almost unreachable places....were
able to remember and recite the SAME
stuffs without anything missing?

BTW....the Hadiths that you claimed to be
irrefutable....REFUTES your claim that
these hafiz do not differ in their reading?
So how?
You now want to claim that the Hadiths
are FALSE?....LOL.


Also done very early. If I am not mistaken,
it was done under the third Caliph - Caliph Usman.

Really?
Tell us how they actually did the whole thing?
Did they call S Ali(ra) and used his version?
Or S. Abu Bakr...
So whose reading did they use as a reference?
Hehe...surely you can tell us right...

BTW...how come the version of the Quran
commonly used here in Malaysia and Singapore
is called the Hafs version.
(Go and ask any Qari ok...and stop BULL****TING)
Does it mean that there more that one version?
How about in Africa?
Do they use the same Quran?

So the qur'an was
well protected on its accuracy. You can still do today. You can find
hafiz every where to compare the accuracy of it.

Really?
How come your Hadiths say otherwise?
BTW...can you show us the verse where
stoning for adultery is mentioned since this stoning
seems to be the fetish of your mullahs as a "mark
of Islam"?
Go on....stop BULL****TING now...
Come clean....and you may possibly escape
my MORON certification....LOL.


Ajali said:
It was a meticulous process. This is what known in today's research as
"trigulation". Every hadiths when through this process of trigulation

LOL.

"Observer" wrote in message
...

"ajali" wrote in message
om...
"Jack." wrote in message
...
Furthermore, you have not answered the questions posed by Observer
about
the
reliability and accuracy of the Hadiths, which I am curious to learn
of
too.
Other arguments posed by Observer were also not addressed by you.
Although
Observers arguments and questions are direct and clear,

Well, I don't think he was interested in real debate except to
undermined Islam.

It is clear for all to read.


LOL.
Since when is questioning morons like
you who make unsupported statements
be considered undermining Islam?

Who is making unsupported statements on Islam if not for you,
who is not even a Muslim.
All muslims are well educated in Islam unlike you, definitely.
We may forget the exact dates and things but we are much better educated
than you are.

....

Is this not true?
Yes or no....
(see...I'm making the question much simpler now
so that you can't wriggle out)
And I'll save my "MORONs" when you do chicken
out again with wild unsupported statements ok...LOL

He has given you the answer many many times but morons
like you don't know, do they.

....

1. They talk to people to find who has listen what the Prophets has
said - thing that were related to the religion.

How did they do that when the
prophet died 200 years before
they were born?

How do you know for sure?
Certainly not from history books which I doubt you
have ever read any at all.

(Does this qualify for a MORON certificate?)

Only morons believe liars like youself.
Read Islamic history book which is right in front of me now.
You are certainly dead wrong.

Ajali don't waste time checking the exact dates of birth etc just to
satisfy morons like him.
In fact he can be arrested in Malaysia if I want to for making false
accusations against Muslims and their history books.
No wonder he is a coward and does not want to show his true identity,
not that we cannot trace him if we want to.

In article , says...

[deleted]

1. They talk to people to find who has listen what the Prophets has
said - thing that were related to the religion.

How did they do that when the
prophet died 200 years before
they were born?

How do you know for sure?
Certainly not from history books which I doubt you
have ever read any at all.

(Does this qualify for a MORON certificate?)

Only morons believe liars like youself.
Read Islamic history book which is right in front of me now.
You are certainly dead wrong.

Ajali don't waste time checking the exact dates of birth etc just to
satisfy morons like him.

If you have the exact dates Haji, I think you should provide them
here for 2 purposes.
1. To educate others.
2. To prove Observer wrong.
However, those dates must be correct to the year
(not give or take a hundred years or so and theorise
what happened in between).

Else that'll be akin to passing off Aussies at time of
US independence as British again.

regards,
michael ...


In fact he can be arrested in Malaysia if I want to for making false
accusations against Muslims and their history books.

No wonder he is a coward and does not want to show his true identity,
not that we cannot trace him if we want to.

"Ir. Hj. Othman bin Hj. Ahmad" wrote in
message ...
Well, I don't think he was interested in real debate except to
undermined Islam.

It is clear for all to read.

Who is "all"?
Are you a schizo?
LOL.


LOL.
Since when is questioning morons like
you who make unsupported statements
be considered undermining Islam?

Who is making unsupported statements on Islam if not for you,

Show me when and where I did
that...dear great FAKE?


who is not even a Muslim.

How do you know that?
Oh...its the "scientific" method
that you use....LOL


All muslims are well educated in Islam unlike you,

Hehe...apparently not well enough to answer
simple questions about the Quran or Hadiths?
LOL.


definitely.
We may forget the exact dates

LOL...
Really?
How come you only forget when you're being
asked to provide for them and not whe you make
incredible claims?
BTW...one moron (known as YOU) asserted that
the answer is always available and only MORONs
do not know how to find them...
So here goes....MORON....LOL

and things but we are much better educated
than you are.

Better educated but not able to answer
simple questions about Quran or Hatdiths?
LOL.


Is this not true?
Yes or no....
(see...I'm making the question much simpler now
so that you can't wriggle out)
And I'll save my "MORONs" when you do chicken
out again with wild unsupported statements ok...LOL

He has given you the answer many many times but morons
like you don't know, do they.

Haha...those are not answers...those are
explanations to why he cannot answer...
MORONs...LOL.


1. They talk to people to find who has listen what the Prophets has
said - thing that were related to the religion.

How did they do that when the
prophet died 200 years before
they were born?

How do you know for sure?

Eh?
I thought you are well educated in Islam.
So give us the dates lar....
Forget again?...LOL


Certainly not from history books which I doubt you
have ever read any at all.

Really?
Then quote your "history" books then.
Go on...fou LYING weasel...
Trying to BLUFF your way thru again?
LOL.


(Does this qualify for a MORON certificate?)

Only morons believe liars like youself.
Read Islamic history book which is right in front of me now.
You are certainly dead wrong.

Then you'd have no problem giving us the
dates I askede
Give us the date that the prophet died and
the BIRTH dates of Muslim and Bukhari who,
your partner in MORONIC science, claimed to
have collated the Hadiths.

Haha...now you're caught...
Just a while ago..you claim to have "forgotten"
the dates...now you claim to even have the
history books in front of you....
So give us the DATES...you LYING
WEASEL....LOL.


Ajali don't waste time checking the exact dates of birth etc just to
satisfy morons like him.

LOL..
Is that because the DATES do not concur with
the claims that MORON ajali made?


In fact he can be arrested in Malaysia if I want to for making false
accusations against Muslims and their history books.

Of course..with dishonest MORONs like you running
around...evading simple questions and coupled
with crimiral ridden JAIS personnel who are wore
famous for peeping at others that making any significant
discovery about Islam?

Thats the reason you'll never leave Malaysia..
because its only there that LIARS like you can
survive....LOL.


No wonder he is a coward and does not want to show his true identity,
not that we cannot trace him if we want to.


Yup....thats the only thing he wants to do...
not debate...not "educate"...just
Get the people who dare to expose his
LIES....see I told you all how these cretins
work to suppress anyone who's on to their
tricks. Using religion to suppress the moderate
Muslims.

Well..my dear BONGOK..go and knock
your head on the wall for not being able to
control all of what God has created...on earth.
Show us the power that God conferred on you
, not....LOL.


LYING MORON.

"michael" wrote in message
...
Ajali don't waste time checking the exact dates of birth etc just to
satisfy morons like him.

If you have the exact dates Haji,

I think calling this moron a haji is
inaccurate..
I found out the more appropriate Arabic
term is "hajar".
So please use this new term ok...

He is indeed a "hajar" from the way he's
been conducting himself so far...
Why...how can Malaysians hold their head
up high when a "scientist" like Mr. Hajar
can give such dishonest answers...
LOL.

I think you should provide them
here for 2 purposes.
1. To educate others.
2. To prove Observer wrong.

Yeah...go man...
Prove me wrong...
Hehe....


However, those dates must be correct to the year
(not give or take a hundred years or so and theorise
what happened in between).

Hehe....not quite confident of an answer
I see...LOL.

Else that'll be akin to passing off Aussies at time of
US independence as British again.

These are his scientific findings again?
LOL.

Mecca should be nuked, or at least a cruise missile right into the
Kaaba would show Muslims that their religion is all a lie. I'm no fan
of Christianity either, but nuking Jerusalem wouldn't matter a bit to
Christianity.


Muslims make trouble wherever they go. They should go to hell and we
should send them.

Convert them or kill them. Sooner or later, they will nuke us, so
lets take care of them first, before its too late.

Islam is a sick joke. Mohammed was a child molesting psychopath.

(michael) wrote in message ...
In article , says...

[deleted]



Else that'll be akin to passing off Aussies at time of
US independence as British again.

Good. Glad to see that you take your time to do some research
yourself. Now that you know what I have written wass not totally
accurate, how about you check this page and read for yourself. This is
the Muslims page.

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Hadith/Ulum/

Of course you can also find the Christian page talking abour Islam -
and you know their purpose and intention:

http://answering-Islam.org.uk/




regards,
michael ...