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  #71  
Old December 1st, 2005, 07:44 AM posted to rec.travel.asia
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Posts: n/a
Default Bangkok


Alan Street wrote:
In article , Deet
wrote:


snip

Both groups are pretty shallow and limited in their outlooks.

Oh, cruise ship passengers.


That's not nice. :-)

  #72  
Old December 1st, 2005, 08:16 AM posted to rec.travel.asia
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Posts: n/a
Default Bangkok

On 30 Nov 2005 02:34:07 -0800, "Tchiowa" wrote:

On 29 Nov 2005 21:48:46 -0800, "Tchiowa" wrote:


The Thai selling fake passports are "on the game". The Thai selling
other fake documents are "on the game". The Thai selling fake purses
and shirts are "on the game". The Thai trying to get the farang to the
gem store are "on the game". The Thai scamming drunk farangs in other
ways are "on the game".


Bull****. "On the game" is a slang term for a prostitute.


No it's not. It may be one way that some people use the term but like
anything else it depends on the context in which it is used. If you
look back at the part of the post you snipped in order to try to prove
your point you'll see that it was used in the context of people trying
to scam drunk farangs. *Very specific* context. But you ignore that
hoping to make your point.

You know it,
I know it, and everyone else knows it. It took me a couple of minutes
to come up with plenty of references which confirm that, the first
half-dozen of which I've listed here. Not a single one of those refers
to any of those other meaning for the term "on the game".


If you look in a dictionary of "sexual slurs" you're going to find
"sexual slurs". Did that surprise you?

You said all
Thai people in Khao San Road are prostitutes and you're not doing a
very good job of squirming your way out of it.


Lying again. Just can't help yourself, can you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sexual_slurs#G


And if you read that you'll notice 2 things (I should say if you're
*honest* you'll notice 2 things). One is that this is only used in the
UK that way. I'm not a Brit and neither are the Thai people I was
talking about and they are not in the UK. So UK slang is just a little
bit irrelevant.


So go on then, back up your claims with some evidence, just as I did.
Can you show me some other dictionaries where the meaning of term "on
the game" is listed in any of the other ways you claim it is used?

Here's another one I found:

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/be+on+the+game


Second thing is you'll notice that damn near all of the words have
multiple meanings, depending on the context (nasty word for people like
you, "context"). For example "gagy". In one context it means
"homosexual". In another it means "happy". In another it means
"brightly colored". Once again, it depends on the context.

So, yet again, if you look at the whole post (including the part you
snipped) it is very clear the context it was used in.


Well lets compare the ways the term "on the game" is most commonly
used shall we. I did a few Google searches with the following
expressions, and this is what came up.

"on the game" + "prostitute" 20,800 hits
"on the game" + "fake passports" 48 hits
"on the game" + "gem store" 19 hits
"on the game" + "fake shirts" 5 hits

Now which of those expressions does that suggest the term "on the
game" is most normally associated with?

Plus, you specifically added the adjective "normal" to the word Thai.
Again, implying first that the dopes in Khao San Road are "normal" and
second implying that the Thai who associate with farangs in other
places are *not* normal (again, when you said "one of *THE* few
places").


I used the word "normal" and "ordinary" when referring to the Thai
people I saw specifically to distinguish them from the types of people
you are talking about. You've tried to twist that around to show
exactly the opposite but your not doing a very good job of convincing
people.

Context is everything.

One thing is for sure, you don't get many Thai people in the Las Vegas
go-go bar in Pattaya where you reported taking a bunch of girls out
from. And don't worry, before you call me a liar again, there are
enough reference to that scattered around the internet which I can
point to if necessary.


Wrong in so many ways. First, in the go-go bars the employees are all
Thai.


Ha ha ha. The *employees* are Thai. Is that really the best you can
come up to show that Thai people do, in fact, go and mix with
foreigners in the kind of bars foreigners frequent? You get funnier
with every post.

Second, that bar hasn't existed for close to a decade (5 years at
least, more I'm pretty sure). Third, I haven't been in it for a number
of years myself.


Well it certainly existed a few months ago. Its true it has since
changed its name to Nevada, but its the same place inside. After
reading so much about what you'd written about the place, I dropped by
there once, and what did I see inside... the name Tchiowa painted on
the mirror as being one of the customers who "rang the bell" to buy
all the girls a drink, in exchange for which he got a t-shirt and was
able to take home one of the girls for the night.

But going even farther, you seem to think that because someone has
"enjoyed the nightlife" that he is somehow unqualified to comment on
the seedier side of Thailand. Of course just the opposite is true. Plus
the completely irrelevant remark (a la morons like e-Dog and Larby) is
a rather pitiful attempt to jump off the subject with what you thought
would be a clever little personal slur. Didn't work.


No, the only reason I bring this up is because of your hypocrisy with
your demeaning attitude to people who visit places you describe as
"cesspools". You constantly brag about how you stay in 5-star hotels,
and look down your nose at people who choose to stay in cheaper
accommodation. The point is to show that once you're off the newsgroup
you're lifestyle in Thailand is actually very similar to those same
people you were criticising moments before. If you hadn't launched
into your tirade against these people I would never have mentioned it
here.

I didn't say they were prostitutes. I didn't accuse *ANY* of your
friends of being prostitutes. But you said that the people in Khao San
Road are normal and since a very high percentage (again, most?) are
drug dealers, prostitutes, scam artists, counterfeiters, dopers,
drunks, etc. So that means you are saying that is what normal Thai are
like.


No, I'm saying normal people don't do any of those things. In fact we
agree on that. What we don't agree on is the fact that the vast
majority of people in Khao San Road don't do those things. Khao San
Road has changed a lot in recent years, and my observations are based
on what I see there these days. You, who admit you haven't been there
for years, somehow believe its still the way it may have been during
one visit you made a long time ago. You defend your outdated beliefs
like a madman while dismissing anything those of us with more recent
experience say about the place.

Maybe you should quit hanging out in Khao San Road and you'd meet a
completely different class of Thai and have a different opinion of
them.


What other class of Thai?


Employed Thai. Educated Thai. Hard working Thai. Honest Thai. The Thai
that *I* would call "normal". You and I clearly have a different
definition of "normal".


That happens to be more or less the same definition I would use.
  #73  
Old December 1st, 2005, 11:23 AM posted to rec.travel.asia
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bangkok


Chris Blunt wrote:
On 30 Nov 2005 02:34:07 -0800, "Tchiowa" wrote:


And if you read that you'll notice 2 things (I should say if you're
*honest* you'll notice 2 things). One is that this is only used in the
UK that way. I'm not a Brit and neither are the Thai people I was
talking about and they are not in the UK. So UK slang is just a little
bit irrelevant.


So go on then, back up your claims with some evidence, just as I did.


My evidence is simple. I did not call anyone a prostitute. It's there
in my post. You are trying to create a meaning that isn't there. I'm
not sure why but when you first stepped into this thread you made a
comment disagreeing with me then for reasons of your own decided to
take a cheap, personal shot. Pick a fight, as it were. Then you
escalated with this phony claim that I said something I didn't say. Now
you're weaseling around claiming that because you think that some
obscure British slang applies to Thailand.

Well lets compare the ways the term "on the game" is most commonly
used shall we. I did a few Google searches with the following
expressions, and this is what came up.

"on the game" + "prostitute" 20,800 hits
"on the game" + "fake passports" 48 hits
"on the game" + "gem store" 19 hits
"on the game" + "fake shirts" 5 hits

Now which of those expressions does that suggest the term "on the
game" is most normally associated with?


Context. Do you understand the word correctly? Context. I used it
context with fake passports, gem stores, scammers, etc. In no place in
that post or related posts did I make any reference to sex, bar girls,
prostitution or any other phrase that could possibly be construed to
imply anything about prostitution.

You lied, simple as that. If you had any ethics you would simply
apologize instead of this weaseling stunt.

One thing is for sure, you don't get many Thai people in the Las Vegas
go-go bar in Pattaya where you reported taking a bunch of girls out
from. And don't worry, before you call me a liar again, there are
enough reference to that scattered around the internet which I can
point to if necessary.


Wrong in so many ways. First, in the go-go bars the employees are all
Thai.


Ha ha ha. The *employees* are Thai. Is that really the best you can
come up to show that Thai people do, in fact, go and mix with
foreigners in the kind of bars foreigners frequent? You get funnier
with every post.

Second, that bar hasn't existed for close to a decade (5 years at
least, more I'm pretty sure). Third, I haven't been in it for a number
of years myself.


Well it certainly existed a few months ago. Its true it has since
changed its name to Nevada, but its the same place inside. After
reading so much about what you'd written about the place, I dropped by
there once, and what did I see inside... the name Tchiowa painted on
the mirror as being one of the customers who "rang the bell" to buy
all the girls a drink, in exchange for which he got a t-shirt and was
able to take home one of the girls for the night.


How many years ago? Or are you conveniently ignoring that? And, of
course, there is the question of relevance. This is just a little
juvenile diversion to get away from the issue at hand. That issue being
you lied about what I said.

But going even farther, you seem to think that because someone has
"enjoyed the nightlife" that he is somehow unqualified to comment on
the seedier side of Thailand. Of course just the opposite is true. Plus
the completely irrelevant remark (a la morons like e-Dog and Larby) is
a rather pitiful attempt to jump off the subject with what you thought
would be a clever little personal slur. Didn't work.


No, the only reason I bring this up is because of your hypocrisy with
your demeaning attitude to people who visit places you describe as
"cesspools".


Lied again. I referred to one place and one place only. Besides, like
most people I've done several things in my life that I hope my mother
never finds out about. But also like most people that type of life is
long in the past. For you that doesn't seem to be.

And let's not forget that the thing I emphasized most is the drug
scene. That is despicable and you can't claim I've been involved with
that. Well, I take that back. An honest person can't claim that. You,
given your posts in this thread, will have no problem claiming it. Even
though you know it's not true.

You constantly brag about how you stay in 5-star hotels,


Interesting comment. Goes to prove what I asked in one of the first
posts. Several times during threads in Usenet (particularly in travel
groups) people discuss the hotels they stay in. Before I moved to
Thailand I used to stay in the Marriott quite regularly. There is
absolutely nothing that could be considered "bragging" about that. The
fact that you consider it "bragging" says something about you and your
attitude toward people. Back to the old "if you're not poor you're not
as good as us" viewpoint. People who stay in the Marriott are middle
class. If you consider middle class to be bragging you have said a lot
about where you are coming from. I think the operative word would be
"jealousy". Of the middle class!! At least we now know why you stay in
Khao San Road.

and look down your nose at people who choose to stay in cheaper
accommodation.


Out and out lie again. In fact if you look in this thread someone
mentioned the Nana, where I have stayed several times, which is a very
cheap hotel. Nothing demeaning or "looking down my nose" in that post.
In another part of the thread I discussed with another poster the
concept of travelling on the cheap and specifically said that they was
nothing wrong with that. It's perfectly normal. Nothing demeaning or
"looking down my nose" in that post. Or any other. If you feel
intimidated by people who have jobs and don't stay in $2 a night guest
houses, say so. But don't put your insecurities on anyone else.

The point is to show that once you're off the newsgroup
you're lifestyle in Thailand is actually very similar to those same
people you were criticising moments before.


No, I don't hang out with druggies. Ever. So you lied yet again.

If you hadn't launched into your tirade against these people I would never have
mentioned it here.


Lied again. I didn't launch into a tirade. I said I hoped people would
go there. You responded to a very mild post and then took a personal
cheap shot. Do you deny that?

Maybe you should quit hanging out in Khao San Road and you'd meet a
completely different class of Thai and have a different opinion of
them.

What other class of Thai?


Employed Thai. Educated Thai. Hard working Thai. Honest Thai. The Thai
that *I* would call "normal". You and I clearly have a different
definition of "normal".


That happens to be more or less the same definition I would use.


Well then let me give you some specific examples:

My father in law is a hard working carpenter. He makes 100 baht a day;
3,000 baht a month if he's able to work every day. Remember the
comments that your buddy Larby likes to make (I assume he's your buddy
because you have decided to emulate his tactics with your little cheap
shots and dishonest posts) whining because I said I gave my in laws
30,000 baht a month? The context of that statement was that he and some
others were advising people to never give money to their in laws
because they'd just get drunk. I pointed out that I gave my in laws an
amount of money that far exceeded what they were used to. Yet my father
in law (who could sit home and enjoy life at this point) still goes out
and works every day if he is well enough because he's a man who takes
pride in himself and has always been responsible for himself and always
will be.

He won't go anywhere near Khao San Road.

My wife moved to the US and lived what most Thai would consider a
luxurious life (middle class America). Yet when her father got sick she
moved back to take care of her father and her younger sister. She could
have stayed in the US and felt rich but she felt that her family and
her responsibility to them was more important than her personal
comfort.

She won't go anywhere near Khao San Road.

One of my best friends in Thailand is a Maintenance Supervisor. He's
college educated and his wife works as a bank loan officer. They have 2
kids and a nice house and are good and decent people who take care of
themselves and their families.

He won't go anywhere near Khao San Road.

Another of my good friends is an accountant. He's really more of a data
entry person. Fairly low level and has probably a slightly below
average income. But he supports himself and his wife and their infant
child. He doesn't drink (much) or gamble. He's a good family man and a
hell of a person.

He won't go anywhere near Khao San Road.

Another of my good friends (my wife's best friend) works in a Subway
making sandwiches. Probably about minimum wage. She shares a room with
another girl and lives quite spartanly. Yet she sends money home to her
parents to help.

She won't go anywhere near Khao San Road.

Those are the normal Thai I am referring to.

  #74  
Old December 1st, 2005, 12:44 PM posted to rec.travel.asia
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bangkok

On 1 Dec 2005 02:23:18 -0800, "Tchiowa" wrote:

Chris Blunt wrote:
On 30 Nov 2005 02:34:07 -0800, "Tchiowa" wrote:


And if you read that you'll notice 2 things (I should say if you're
*honest* you'll notice 2 things). One is that this is only used in the
UK that way. I'm not a Brit and neither are the Thai people I was
talking about and they are not in the UK. So UK slang is just a little
bit irrelevant.


So go on then, back up your claims with some evidence, just as I did.


My evidence is simple. I did not call anyone a prostitute. It's there
in my post. You are trying to create a meaning that isn't there. I'm
not sure why but when you first stepped into this thread you made a
comment disagreeing with me then for reasons of your own decided to
take a cheap, personal shot. Pick a fight, as it were. Then you
escalated with this phony claim that I said something I didn't say. Now
you're weaseling around claiming that because you think that some
obscure British slang applies to Thailand.


You said they were "on the game", which means they are prostitutes.
I've proved that with links to numerous independent references to
support it. In an attempt to weasel your way out of it, you've tried
to claim the expression means something else, yet you've been unable
to produce even a single reference to support that. Unless you can do
so, my claim that you called the Thai people in Khao San Road
prostitutes stands. Either put up or shut up.

Well it certainly existed a few months ago. Its true it has since
changed its name to Nevada, but its the same place inside. After
reading so much about what you'd written about the place, I dropped by
there once, and what did I see inside... the name Tchiowa painted on
the mirror as being one of the customers who "rang the bell" to buy
all the girls a drink, in exchange for which he got a t-shirt and was
able to take home one of the girls for the night.


How many years ago? Or are you conveniently ignoring that?


You first started posting about what you do with the girls from that
bar several years ago. I don't really care what you get up to in
there, but I doubt whether a leopard changes his spots. At least
you've had the good sense to stop posting about it in public now.

Interesting comment. Goes to prove what I asked in one of the first
posts. Several times during threads in Usenet (particularly in travel
groups) people discuss the hotels they stay in. Before I moved to
Thailand I used to stay in the Marriott quite regularly. There is
absolutely nothing that could be considered "bragging" about that. The
fact that you consider it "bragging" says something about you and your
attitude toward people. Back to the old "if you're not poor you're not
as good as us" viewpoint. People who stay in the Marriott are middle
class. If you consider middle class to be bragging you have said a lot
about where you are coming from. I think the operative word would be
"jealousy". Of the middle class!! At least we now know why you stay in
Khao San Road.


In fact I've never stayed on Khao San Road. I've also stayed at the JW
Marriott a couple of times. I could afford to stay there every time,
but I think its overpriced for what they actually offer in practical
terms. I normally stay in 3 or 4 star hotels in other parts of
Bangkok, but just because I choose to do so doesn't mean I have to put
down budget travelers who want to stay somewhere cheaper. I'm not so
insecure that I have to *prove* to others that my choice of travel
lifestyle is the *only* respectable one there is. I don't see it as a
class thing, and I don't make assumptions about people simply based on
what kind of hotel they choose to spend their money on.
  #75  
Old December 1st, 2005, 12:55 PM posted to rec.travel.asia
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bangkok


Chris Blunt wrote:
On 1 Dec 2005 02:23:18 -0800, "Tchiowa" wrote:

Chris Blunt wrote:
On 30 Nov 2005 02:34:07 -0800, "Tchiowa" wrote:


And if you read that you'll notice 2 things (I should say if you're
*honest* you'll notice 2 things). One is that this is only used in the
UK that way. I'm not a Brit and neither are the Thai people I was
talking about and they are not in the UK. So UK slang is just a little
bit irrelevant.

So go on then, back up your claims with some evidence, just as I did.


My evidence is simple. I did not call anyone a prostitute. It's there
in my post. You are trying to create a meaning that isn't there. I'm
not sure why but when you first stepped into this thread you made a
comment disagreeing with me then for reasons of your own decided to
take a cheap, personal shot. Pick a fight, as it were. Then you
escalated with this phony claim that I said something I didn't say. Now
you're weaseling around claiming that because you think that some
obscure British slang applies to Thailand.


You said they were "on the game", which means they are prostitutes.


Maybe in the UK. But it doesn't to me and it doesn't to Thailand.

I've proved that with links to numerous independent references to
support it. In an attempt to weasel your way out of it, you've tried
to claim the expression means something else, yet you've been unable
to produce even a single reference to support that. Unless you can do
so, my claim that you called the Thai people in Khao San Road
prostitutes stands. Either put up or shut up.


Whine all you want. You got caught lying. Simple as that.


Well it certainly existed a few months ago. Its true it has since
changed its name to Nevada, but its the same place inside. After
reading so much about what you'd written about the place, I dropped by
there once, and what did I see inside... the name Tchiowa painted on
the mirror as being one of the customers who "rang the bell" to buy
all the girls a drink, in exchange for which he got a t-shirt and was
able to take home one of the girls for the night.


How many years ago? Or are you conveniently ignoring that?


You first started posting about what you do with the girls from that
bar several years ago.


Not in Usenet. And "several years ago" is actually about a decade ago.

I don't really care what you get up to in
there, but I doubt whether a leopard changes his spots.


Just because you still won't grow up doesn't mean others can't.

Interesting comment. Goes to prove what I asked in one of the first
posts. Several times during threads in Usenet (particularly in travel
groups) people discuss the hotels they stay in. Before I moved to
Thailand I used to stay in the Marriott quite regularly. There is
absolutely nothing that could be considered "bragging" about that. The
fact that you consider it "bragging" says something about you and your
attitude toward people. Back to the old "if you're not poor you're not
as good as us" viewpoint. People who stay in the Marriott are middle
class. If you consider middle class to be bragging you have said a lot
about where you are coming from. I think the operative word would be
"jealousy". Of the middle class!! At least we now know why you stay in
Khao San Road.


In fact I've never stayed on Khao San Road. I've also stayed at the JW
Marriott a couple of times. I could afford to stay there every time,
but I think its overpriced for what they actually offer in practical
terms. I normally stay in 3 or 4 star hotels in other parts of
Bangkok, but just because I choose to do so doesn't mean I have to put
down budget travelers who want to stay somewhere cheaper.


And I don't put down other peolpe because they choose to stay in a
cheap hotel. But what I do put people down for is when they do drugs,
sell drugs, hang out with druggies, etc.

Sorry if that offends you.

And *YOU* quite specifically put down people who stay at the Marriott.
You've done so a couple of times in this thread.

I'm not so
insecure that I have to *prove* to others that my choice of travel
lifestyle is the *only* respectable one there is.


But that is *EXACTLY* what you have been doing. I quite specifically
said that there is nothing bad or wrong with travelling cheap. And
there is nothing wrong with staying at a tourist hotel like the Nana.
And there is nothing wrong with staying at the Marriott. *YOU* quite
specifically referred to the cheap area of town as "one of the few
places" where normal Thai associate with foreigners. That is a clear
claim that it is superior to most of the other areas and thus a clear
put down to others.

I don't see it as a
class thing, and I don't make assumptions about people simply based on
what kind of hotel they choose to spend their money on.


Then why did you make the comments that you did?

I suppose one of us has to end this as it's gone on too long. I don't
suppose you'll care at all but I (for one) used to have quite a bit of
respect for you. I didn't necessarily agree with your opinions but at
least you expressed them in a decent way. Your decision to enter this
thread with a personal "snide remark", your repeated lies about what I
posted, your slurs about real Thai people, your put down of people who
don't stay in $2 a night guest houses, all have combined to change my
opinion of you. Like I said, I'm sure you won't lose any sleep over
that. But at least now I know a bit more about your ethics. Or lack
thereof.

  #76  
Old December 2nd, 2005, 06:10 AM posted to rec.travel.asia,soc.culture.thai
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bangkok

On 1 Dec 2005 03:55:59 -0800, "Tchiowa" wrote:



I suppose one of us has to end this as it's gone on too long. I don't
suppose you'll care at all but I (for one) used to have quite a bit of
respect for you.



So you admit that your wife was a bar girl then?

Path: archiver1.google.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail
From: (Tchiowa)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: How to treat a Thai/Issan wife?
Date: 30 Nov 2003 16:50:10 -0800
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Lines: 40
Message-ID:
References:









NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.130.203.199
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: posting.google.com 1070239810 13856 127.0.0.1 (1 Dec 2003
00:50:10 GMT)
X-Complaints-To:
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 00:50:10 +0000 (UTC)

Unfortunately for you, only one of those things is true. My wife did
break a girl's arm after the girl made insulting remarks about me.

************************************************** ************************


I didn't necessarily agree with your opinions but at
least you expressed them in a decent way. Your decision to enter this
thread with a personal "snide remark", your repeated lies about what I
posted, your slurs about real Thai people, your put down of people who
don't stay in $2 a night guest houses, all have combined to change my
opinion of you. Like I said, I'm sure you won't lose any sleep over
that. But at least now I know a bit more about your ethics. Or lack
thereof.



**** off now tchiowa , You probably have never even been to Khao San
Road yet you make some long bull**** tirade about the place clearly
stating that the *only* Thai people in that area are drug dealers and
hustlers.

You wife break anyone's arm lately?

She must be a real 'Normal' Thai , is that the type of people you
associate with?

What Bar did she work in?


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