Carry-ons (Opinions?)

Vitaly Shmatikov wrote:
me wrote:
I'm not sure what they were editing out of the others. Anyone know?

Visuals. Sex mostly. You don't have to let your 5 year old wear the
headphones, but it's pretty hard to tell them not to open their eyes for
2 hours. So the airlines try to edit out visual stuff. Not sure how they
ever show a Bond flick.

I saw _The World Is Not Enough_ on Continental once.

Once they show "Fearless" we'll be onto something.

miguel
--
Hundreds of travel photos from around the world: http://travel.u.nu/

In article , PTRAVEL says...


"Frank F. Matthews" wrote in message
...


snip

I've rarely seen families with young children with more than the
allowable amount of carry-ons. They usually only have one item per
child and only rarely two. FFM

Whereas I have seen it.





Are you sure you accounted for the carryons which go with the kids' seats?

Banty

In article , PTRAVEL says...



How do you know a business traveller from a "casual flyer"?

Actually, that's a good point and is the result of some shorthand. What I
should have written is that I rarely see _frequent_ flyers abuse the carryon
rules, as opposed to casual flyers. Since most frequent flyers fly
frequently because their business requires them to, I assumed "business
travellers." However, you have a good point.

Thanks. These things are so often a matter of perception.


Dress doesn't
necessarily do it - you yourself just said that you travel in casual
clothes.

I do, but it's not hard to tell me (or any other frequent flyer) from a
casual flyer. You can tell by how they board (go directly to seat vs. ask
the FA where it is), what they do when they sit down (immediately adjust the
air vs. peer at the light and air controls trying to figure out how to work
them), what they carry (computer bag/wheeled rollaboard/higher-quality vs.
duffel bag,shopping bag,etc.).


Well, this risks circularity, as in assuming that those who follow the rules
must be frequent flyers, therefore it's the casual flyers who break the rules.

And in the past you've said IIRC that you often also travel with your
wife.
Wouldn't you look a lot like a casual traveller?

Why? Because I'm with my wife? I'm sure we look like we're travelling for
leisure, but that's not the same thing as a casual traveller. See above.

(Also - consider that a
business traveller who is obvious by dress may be following my advice to
dress
in passable dress for business as a contingency against lost baggage, so
those
would tend to be just the ones who don't try to carry everything on.)

It didn't occur to me to use dress as an indicator, though I now that I
think about it, I suppose I'd assume the tank top, shorts and sandal crowd
were casual flyers.


Laptop possession, lordy knows, doesn't make the distinction anymore
either.

Why not?

Laptops are so widespread now (students have 'em, people do take them on leisure
travel) that they're not the marker of a business traveller like the used to be.

Banty

Simon Elliott wrote:

Although there isn't the same cash imperative, leisure travel isn't all
cut from the same cloth either.

Certainly true. We went to Hawaii for four weeks, visiting six
islands. With all that air travel we felt it best to travel only with
carry-on. We got bags that measured exactly what was allowed and simply
(okay, not so simply) edited out whatever didn't fit. Worked great.
But I don't think we could have managed to do this for our Austrian ski
trip, even if we'd decided to rent the equipment.

Regarding "whining" about wheelies, I observe most people hauling
wheeled luggage are perefectly fit middle-aged and younger people who
have small carry-on cases and wheeled backpacks. They drag the
wheelies and seem to have no sense of how much space they are
blocking.

Truly disabled folks are a relatively small minority, and, sure, I
have patience for them. If you're in between, well, I think that
luggage carts and skycaps are a better option. Far better to push the
cart in front of you, where you can see what it's blocking, rather
than dragging the wheelie behind you, oblivious to how it blocks
peoples' paths. Also, the wheelies are heavier for the amount of
paylod, and working them into an overhead bin seems to take people
more time than shoving in a soft-sided duffle or overnight bag. Those
damn wheels and handles always seem to catch on some surface or other,
and one klutz (and that's been me at times, I admit) can hold up the
loading of unloading of an airplane.

Still, I can't belive the amount of luggage some people haul around,
even for short trips. I was just on an Amtrak train between New York
and Washington (and most people were going only part of the way), and
the amount of luggage was mind-boggling. Huge pullman cases, boxes,
backpacks suitable for hiking the Appalachian Trail. Of course,
Amtrak doesn't check baggage on this line, but they've had to pull
seats out at the ends of the coaches just to hold all this clutter.
One might expect a few passengers rto be on a trip of long duration
that might require a large suitcase, but everybody on the damn train?
At least it seemed like everybody was packed as if they were moving
all of their personal possessions.


Jenn wrote in message ...

people who whine about other people's small wheelies are generally fit
and middle aged or younger and have no ability whatsoever to imagine
that THEY might ever have shoulder problems, or arthritis, or get old

PTRAVEL" wrote in message ...
"Jonathan Smith" wrote in message
m...
"PTRAVEL" wrote in message
...
"Jonathan Smith" wrote in message
m...
"PTRAVEL" wrote in message
...
"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Evelyn
C.
Leeper
says...

Mark Hewitt wrote:
Paul - you started this with this statement:

It absolutely amazes me that you would be criticize someone who
falls
within
the _airline_determined_ requirement for carryon, which
inconveniences
no
one except, perhaps, your personal sense of aesthetics.

It is not the person within the guidelines of a 21 inch rollaboard (51
inch total dimension)

On some airlines -- different airlines have different restrictions.

Continental. On BA, for example, it is a lot less in economy. AA has
a 41 inch limit. ALL US airlines have the one plus personal limit -
and blame the FAA/TSA.

Also, some airlines specify three linear dimensions for max carryon size,
some only length + width + height, whereas others use both limitations.

So there are limits and they are abused. The question is - by whom
most often. Your argument is that its families, mine is that it is
the "business" traveler.

More recently you propose it isn't the leisure traveler rather the
inexperienced traveler versus the experienced traveler where the
differences lie.

I agree - but the experienced traveler knows what he can get away with
and has the clout to get away with it. The inexperienced traveler
will ask and be told what the limits are and abide by them. I've seen
it at check in, I've seen it at the gate.


and a SINGLE personal item (briefcase, purse, OR
- not and - SMALL backpack).

The 24 inch rollaboard plus the computer case, plus the small duffle
plus the purse is NOT within the guidelines.

I have a 24" Tumi suitcase. There is no way that this could remotely be
considered a carry-on. Standard rollaboards are 21" or 22".

Well duh. My point exactly.

Well, yes, but in your example the 24" bag, alone, would have precluded
carryon -- the other stuff wouldn't have mattered one way or another.

Not necessarily in all cases - if it is an airline with combined
versus specific dimensions. Fitting a 24 incher lengthwise in the
overhead is impossible, a 21 incher will fit on many plans. That's
what ****es me off the most.

A rollaboard plus a
computer plus a purse is not. A rollaboard plus a garment bag plus a
briefcase is NOT. A rollaboard plus a purse plus a Macy's shopping
bag plus a computer bag is NOT.

Obviously. When did I imply otherwise?

Did I say you did? I was pointing out what I observed of business
travelers in first class on a flight on Friday brough aboard as
carryon.


These observations were made last Friday on a Continental flight in
first class.

I rarely, if ever, see business people abuse the carryone restrictions.

I see it ALL the time. It is most apparent with women business
travelers but men are not immune from carryonitis.

That's odd, because most of my travel is on Continental and most of that is
in F.

I'm platinum and work bi-coastal. Guess what I do two or three times
a month. I guess maybe you need to travel more.

It
is almost always the casual flyer who either doesn't know, or doesn't
care
about, the restrictions on carryon.

Your observational abilities in the past have been challenged.

By you, yes. However, I observe what I observe, which doesn't coincide
with what you observe.

You blame families for too many carryons and argue ignorance. I find
that far too consistent of you and far too biased. Face it - you have
this thing about families on airplanes.



Added to that - there was little evidence of the one above, one below
etiquette.

Not quite sure what you're saying here,

"If you have two carryons, please place the larger one above and the
smaller one under the seat in front of you.?"

Do you do this, Paul?

Of course, unless (1) I'm sitting in a bulkhead seat, and there is no seat
in front of me, (2) the flight is not full, I'm in my usual window seat and
the aisle (if 2 across) or aisle and window (if 3 across) seats are not
occupied, in which case I might put my carryon under the seat in front of
them, or (3) the plane is wide open and there is more than enough room for
everyone to stow their carryons overhead, in which case I do, too. (2) and
(3) are pretty rare but, coincidently, happened to me on two legs yesterday.

You are the rarity.


but since you're respond to my post,
I _never_ violate carryon rules. As I've indicated, in my experience,
casual flyers and, notably, families with young children, are the most
egregious violators.

Families with young children are allowed an extra piece of carryon
PLUS a car seat.

Yes, so? What has that to do with what I wrote?

It is extremely difficult for a family to exceed their carryon
allowance. Imagine two toddlers two car seats, two strollers, eight
carryons between you and your wife. Just isn't going to happen. And
why should it? These leisure travelers will have checked bags anyway
so there's no added time value for all the additional carryon. In
fact, additional carryons are a hassle. I imagine they pack as light
as possible - comfort items, change of clothes, food. What else will
they need on board anyway? And they aren't in any rush - they can't
be. How long do you think it takes a family of four to get from C30
to baggage claim in EWR? There are TWO escalators to negotiate and a
mile of concourse.

For example - American says:

"Additional items that will be allowed above and beyond the
restrictions listed above include:
Outer garments such as coats/wraps/hats
Approved safety seat for lap or ticketed child
Umbrella stroller for lap or ticketed child
Diaper bag for lap or ticketed child
Book or newspaper
Bistro sized or smaller bag of food that is consumable
Devices such as wheelchairs, walkers, etc.
Therapeutic oxygen provided by the airline"one infant article such as
a .


Continental allows one ADDITIONAL item for an infant/toddler -
"...collapsible stroller, a diaper bag or a government approved child
seat."

You didn't read what I wrote carefully. Here it is again:

I _never_ violate carryon rules. As I've indicated, in my experience,
casual flyers and, notably, families with young children, are the most
egregious violators.

And you didn't read what I wrote - I find that the business traveler,
often a women and often in FC, is the worst offender. Three items is
NOT allowed but three items are often carried. The purse is an item,
the rollaboard is the second item, and the briefcase is the third.
Then there's always the Saks shopping bag and the.....If it's in a
shopping bag doesn't it count?

This sentence talks about egregious violators of the rules, not families for
whom there are special rules.

But YOU suggested that the violators are families. If that's the
case, then you need to apply the family rule or it wouldn't be a
violation. Or do you have someother approach you are taking?


And now it gets personal - you want to blame everything on the
families with children yet you tell us how you always travel in first
class. How does this happen? I haven't seen a family in first class
in quite some time and when I do it is hardly a gaggle of them .

I don't always travel first class. Most of my travel is first class. My
leisure travel is often in coach, as is my business travel on airlines that
don't offer YUP fares. As an example, yesterday I flew to Edmonton on Air
Canada (Zip). Both legs were coach. Tomorrow I return. Both legs will be
coach.

However, that begs the question. Your question assumes families don't fly
in F.

Most don't, Paul, and you know it. Do the numbers - out of the 12 to
20 in FC, how many are under 21. In coach, do the same thing.

That's an incorrect assumption.

Hardly, Paul.

And, particularly with respect to
Business/First and international Business class, your assumption is way off
the mark.

BC is not first. And B/F on Continental is not first either - no
matter what they might want you to believe.

How
can families with children be taking your first class bin space? You
board first, you sit in first, and you get off first.


1. I don't always fly in F.

That is a shame.

2. Families with young children fly in F.

Rarely

3. Coach flyers sometimes use the first bin they encounter on boarding, i.e
F bins.

But not if the FC passengers are already there and in my observation,
often FAs will put a stop to it.

I fly again tomorrow - want pictures of carryon toting business
flyers?

Not particularly.

Here's the tally. 16 people up front. 10 men, 6 women. 4 of the
women had three carryons, one had five. One of the men had an extra
garment bag - the soft ones. It had a tux in it and he was going to a
formal dinner. The rest had one or two.

Watching people going to coach - many had just a purse or a back pack.
A few rollaboards and a few extra pieces. Considering that there
were eight times as many headed to the back - the winners are the
ladies up front.

Head back on Friday - I'll do it again. Already upgraded to FC.

js

"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article , PTRAVEL says...



How do you know a business traveller from a "casual flyer"?

Actually, that's a good point and is the result of some shorthand. What
I
should have written is that I rarely see _frequent_ flyers abuse the
carryon
rules, as opposed to casual flyers. Since most frequent flyers fly
frequently because their business requires them to, I assumed "business
travellers." However, you have a good point.

Thanks. These things are so often a matter of perception.


Dress doesn't
necessarily do it - you yourself just said that you travel in casual
clothes.

I do, but it's not hard to tell me (or any other frequent flyer) from a
casual flyer. You can tell by how they board (go directly to seat vs.
ask
the FA where it is), what they do when they sit down (immediately adjust
the
air vs. peer at the light and air controls trying to figure out how to
work
them), what they carry (computer bag/wheeled rollaboard/higher-quality
vs.
duffel bag,shopping bag,etc.).


Well, this risks circularity, as in assuming that those who follow the
rules
must be frequent flyers, therefore it's the casual flyers who break the
rules.

Note, though, that I'm not saying FFs can be distinguished from other flyers
because they follow the rules -- that would be circular. FFs know their way
around the plane, the airline and the system. If you see people who, for
example, can negotiate an upgrade, know its okay to pull the pillows out of
the overhead to make room for a bag, automatically pull out a $5 (or a
coupon) when ordering an alcoholic drink in coach, or the the myriad other
little things that say, "I've done this a lot," then you know it's an FF.



And in the past you've said IIRC that you often also travel with your
wife.
Wouldn't you look a lot like a casual traveller?

Why? Because I'm with my wife? I'm sure we look like we're travelling
for
leisure, but that's not the same thing as a casual traveller. See above.

(Also - consider that a
business traveller who is obvious by dress may be following my advice
to
dress
in passable dress for business as a contingency against lost baggage,
so
those
would tend to be just the ones who don't try to carry everything on.)

It didn't occur to me to use dress as an indicator, though I now that I
think about it, I suppose I'd assume the tank top, shorts and sandal
crowd
were casual flyers.


Laptop possession, lordy knows, doesn't make the distinction anymore
either.

Why not?

Laptops are so widespread now (students have 'em, people do take them on
leisure
travel) that they're not the marker of a business traveller like the used
to be.

I suppose that's true -- I take mine with me for leisure travel, but that's
primarily because I need to stay in touch with the office.


Banty

(Menachem Mavet) wrote in message . com...
Regarding "whining" about wheelies, I observe most people hauling
wheeled luggage are perefectly fit middle-aged and younger people who
have small carry-on cases and wheeled backpacks.

Consider for a moment that most middle aged folks aren't
"perfectly fit". More to the point, bad backs begin to abound
by 40.

They drag the
wheelies and seem to have no sense of how much space they are
blocking.

They drive this way too. They're the same ones that don't
even think about filling out the check at the grocery store
until the cashier announces the total. Then they start to dig
out the checkbook and find a pen....


Truly disabled folks are a relatively small minority, and, sure, I
have patience for them. If you're in between, well, I think that
luggage carts and skycaps are a better option. Far better to push the
cart in front of you, where you can see what it's blocking, rather
than dragging the wheelie behind you, oblivious to how it blocks
peoples' paths. Also, the wheelies are heavier for the amount of
paylod, and working them into an overhead bin seems to take people
more time than shoving in a soft-sided duffle or overnight bag. Those
damn wheels and handles always seem to catch on some surface or other,
and one klutz (and that's been me at times, I admit) can hold up the
loading of unloading of an airplane.


It really gets back to being aware in general. With or without
"wheelies" folks will exit the jetway and stop smack dab in the middle
of the aisle, blocking those behind them, whilst they hug a grandma,
dig out their cell phone, or look for the departure board.


Still, I can't belive the amount of luggage some people haul around,
even for short trips.

Length of trip is only marginally associated with the amount of
junk I haul along. Typically it has far more to do with the
overall purpose of a trip. I can haul more on a quick weekend
getway, than I do on a week long business trip. 'Cause I
don't take nearly as many clothes, nor the blender, on a
business trip like I do on a short beach weekend.

I was just on an Amtrak train between New York
and Washington (and most people were going only part of the way), and
the amount of luggage was mind-boggling. Huge pullman cases, boxes,
backpacks suitable for hiking the Appalachian Trail.

Were they? Folks do ride Amtrack as part of doing that trail.

Of course,
Amtrak doesn't check baggage on this line, but they've had to pull
seats out at the ends of the coaches just to hold all this clutter.
One might expect a few passengers rto be on a trip of long duration
that might require a large suitcase, but everybody on the damn train?

Oh, I suspect it was far from everyone, or those few seats wouldn't
have been nearly enough space.

At least it seemed like everybody was packed as if they were moving
all of their personal possessions.

My brother showed up (in his own car) to a family reunion for a
week. He told his wife they'd have to throw a chain over the house
so it wouldn't blow away. Everything, he guessed, was in the car
including the fixtures.

(Menachem Mavet) wrote:

Regarding "whining" about wheelies, I observe most people hauling
wheeled luggage are perefectly fit middle-aged and younger people who
have small carry-on cases and wheeled backpacks. They drag the
wheelies and seem to have no sense of how much space they are
blocking.

I also find most of these people particularly irritating in the airport
on airside.

Because of the way they drag the case, they are effectively twice as
wide, and block people wanting to get past them. People carrying
their bags are a little more likely to be walking with purpose to
get to their gate. Those pulling seem to always be confused about
something. At least they don't seem to be aware or concerned about
people around them.

They can be particularly annoying on the moving sidewalks. The idea is
you stand on the right and walk on the left. (Is it the other way
around in England and Oz?)

The pullers have their case on the left blocking the walkers way.

--
Stephen

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians
are so unlike your Christ.
Mohandas Gandhi

"stephen" wrote in message
...
(Menachem Mavet) wrote:

Regarding "whining" about wheelies, I observe most people hauling
wheeled luggage are perefectly fit middle-aged and younger people who
have small carry-on cases and wheeled backpacks. They drag the
wheelies and seem to have no sense of how much space they are
blocking.

I also find most of these people particularly irritating in the airport
on airside.

Because of the way they drag the case, they are effectively twice as
wide, and block people wanting to get past them.

How does dragging something behind you make you twice as wide? People
carrying large duffles over there are shoulder are twice as wide, as those
things ride on their hips, rather than trail behind them.

People carrying
their bags are a little more likely to be walking with purpose to
get to their gate.

Hunh? I don't know what airports you frequent, but that certainly isn't the
case everywhere that I fly. Rollaboards are standard issue for most
business travellers.

Those pulling seem to always be confused about
something.

I've never seen that.

At least they don't seem to be aware or concerned about
people around them.

That's true of most people in an airport.


They can be particularly annoying on the moving sidewalks. The idea is
you stand on the right and walk on the left. (Is it the other way
around in England and Oz?)

Anyone who blocks a moving walkway is annoying.


The pullers have their case on the left blocking the walkers way.

Again, not my experience. The bag is behind you, not on the on the side.


--
Stephen

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians
are so unlike your Christ.
Mohandas Gandhi