A Travel and vacations forum. TravelBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » TravelBanter forum » Travelling Style » Backpacking and Budget travel
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Cheap and safe around the world



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old September 12th, 2003, 08:30 PM
Christopher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Cheap and safe around the world


Lately I've been inspired and contemplating a trip around the world. As of
yet, there isn't much I know about what sort of technicalities there are..
considering my circumstance - that is why I'm posting this message, with
hopes that the people on here could help me out with learning the basic
obstacles that are presented right from the start. I know, maybe it is
crazy.. but I'd like you all to confirm that for me; anyway, I figure some
of you might be a bit more supportive than others since this is the
"backpacking" node (not to mention "budget").

Okay, so I'm eighteen years old and living in my parents' home, which they
have yet to retire into (somewhat like "housesitting".) The basic premise
of my idea is that I'll get a job (which I have yet to find, sorry) and save
up whatever money I need for the trip; I realize this could take a few years
(or more?), and I'm willing to plan for such a length - luckily the parents
don't have me paying rent here. Anyway, so what if I'm naive.. let's get
over that. Okay, so.. I am about to consider just about any path, so as
long as it is relatively safe (I realize some would be suicide.) Adventure
and new experience is key.. and well I feel that would be acheived even
hitting the safest places all over the world - so as long as it is indeed a
"trip around the world," sufficient enough to induce culture shock of some
sort and diversity.

Let's skip a space just to make this easier to read, eh? Forgive me if I
haven't got my questions together all so well; this post is, basically, to
communicate my situation and ask you what basic complexities arise in such a
simple (but difficult, no doubt) premise as "travelling the world".. and
travelling cheap, relatively safe. Some things that come to mind right from
the outset: How much would it cost? I would probably need to learn some
the basics of many languages.. Where would I stay? Could I even gain
access to the countries I wish to travel? What would be the best methods of
transportation? Best way to eat, keep warm.. shelter. Of course, it all
ties in together with time, safety, and budget. I have just about all the
time in the world.. but I think my finances might dictate that - unless I
can find temporary work in whatever country I happen to be in at that
moment..? The simple fact of having to learn the languages could make this
trip relatively impossibly itself. I imagine the whole thing would cost
thousands of dollars.. I hope not. I have yet to come up with a basic
route and plan (ie. where I want to go, what I want to see and do.) Right
now I'm just concerned about just how possible any of this is - and how much
of it is possible.

I've considered joining the peace corps, doing some humanitarian aid, or
taking a TEFL course - but all of these require some schooling, which I'm
not up for at the moment - and besides, it's not a trip around the world.
I'd hope for this to become a long-running topic, though perhaps you will
all show me readily that the trip is not so feasible. Maybe none of us are
quite sure of the possibility - if that is so, then we can learn together..


Christopher

  #2  
Old September 12th, 2003, 08:40 PM
Jim Ley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Cheap and safe around the world

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:30:31 GMT, Christopher
wrote:
I know, maybe it is crazy..


It's not crazy, it's something millions of 18yr olds do all the time,
I believe it's obligatory from Australians for example.

I realize this could take a few years
(or more?), and I'm willing to plan for such a length - luckily the parents
don't have me paying rent here.


Unlikely, depending on the locations you want to visit, the local
salaries available (and I'm assuming you're a USAian here, but any 1st
world countries would be fine, but if you're from Bhutan and planning
this maybe it'll be different), but if you don't party too much, have
no rent, 6 months should be more than enough to get you the cash for a
year away - many countries are very cheap to stay in.

How much would it cost?


It depends how much luxury and hand-holding you need, would you be
prepared to hitch between A and B, or do you require a flight. Do you
require Aircon and a Pool where you stay, or just clean with a shower?

I would probably need to learn some the basics of many languages..


Always useful, unless you leave the backpacker trail a fair bit, all
you really need is English.

Where would I stay?


Where everyone else does.. depending on your budget.

Could I even gain access to the countries I wish to travel?


There's few you can't go to if you really want to, some cost a lot of
cash, and hassle to get to, but most are easy enough.

Best way to eat,


One mouthful at a time, chewed 40 times.

unless I
can find temporary work in whatever country I happen to be in at that
moment..?


Unlikely to be productive, without a work visa you'll struggle to get
any worthwhile work (you'll waste more time looking than just moving
on to a cheaper country) If you can get a work visa then you can
probably do ok - not sure how easy that is for a USAian, but there's
probably something you can get for Australia or similar.

The simple fact of having to learn the languages could make this
trip relatively impossibly itself.


Not really.

I imagine the whole thing would cost thousands of dollars..


Almost certainly, but McDonalds pays a few hundred a week yeah? get an
evening job too, and you can easily earn the thousands you need
quickly enough - just don't spend much! Treat the lack of rent as
particular good fortune.

and how much of it is possible.


All of it's possible, thousands of people have done it.

I'm somewhat unsure this question is genuine, but I've given you the
benefit of the doubt - get a job and you'll be away soon enough, cash
seems to be the only thing you're lacking right now.

Jim.
  #3  
Old September 12th, 2003, 10:14 PM
Christopher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Cheap and safe around the world

in article , Jim Ley at
wrote on 9/12/03 3:40 PM:

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:30:31 GMT, Christopher
wrote:
I know, maybe it is crazy..


It's not crazy, it's something millions of 18yr olds do all the time,
I believe it's obligatory from Australians for example.

Thanks for your reply, Jim. You're saying Australians go after this quite
often? Why would that be?.. just curious. What exactly do the millions of
18yr olds do, and why might that be? I suppose the danger or "craziness" of
the trip would all depend on what you plan to do around the place. I think
I know my limits and anywhere I might want to go will probably not be too
difficult or risky.. Haven't thought about it enough yet, but I figure on
the basics, you know? Probably regular tourist destinations and whatever it
takes to get a feel for the people and way of life.

I realize this could take a few years
(or more?), and I'm willing to plan for such a length - luckily the parents
don't have me paying rent here.


Unlikely, depending on the locations you want to visit, the local
salaries available (and I'm assuming you're a USAian here, but any 1st
world countries would be fine, but if you're from Bhutan and planning
this maybe it'll be different), but if you don't party too much, have
no rent, 6 months should be more than enough to get you the cash for a
year away - many countries are very cheap to stay in.

Yeah, I'm in the States (northeastern.) I don't plan on partying - mostly
interested in just seeing the geography and natural everyday things that go
on in large and small populated areas. What are my housing options? Can
you confirm for me what the 1st world countries are? I can guess.. but, you
know. Wait.. perhaps you meant that in relation to what sort of job I can
get to raise money..? Anyway, I'd like to know what countries would
probably be the easiest to travel.

How much would it cost?


It depends how much luxury and hand-holding you need, would you be
prepared to hitch between A and B, or do you require a flight. Do you
require Aircon and a Pool where you stay, or just clean with a shower?

How dangerous do you think it'd be to hitch? Would probably be more
interesting than a flight.. but, yeah. Clean with a shower sounds about
right - though I am willing to "rough it".. even further? Backpacking
sounds tough but fun, though I think it would limit my general access.. (ie.
can't pitch a tent in the city.) Perhaps backpack across rural areas.. and
when in urban environment use what it has to offer? Might be a little too
extreme though, do you think?

I would probably need to learn some the basics of many languages..


Always useful, unless you leave the backpacker trail a fair bit, all
you really need is English.

It would be fun and interesting to learn anyway..

Where would I stay?


Where everyone else does.. depending on your budget.

I am/was not sure if I would be able to really afford using the traditional
lodging venues during a trip around the world.. but I guess the American
dollar is worth quite a bit elsewhere?

Could I even gain access to the countries I wish to travel?


There's few you can't go to if you really want to, some cost a lot of
cash, and hassle to get to, but most are easy enough.

Would you be able to give me an outline of this? Perhaps sum it up to the
best of your knowledge.. and provide a web link, if you have one.

Best way to eat,


One mouthful at a time, chewed 40 times.

Yes, of course! But I was referring to cheapest and safest methods of
obtaining food in foreign countries. I suppose it would not be the best
idea to use restaurants at all times.. Would I even have a choice though?

unless I
can find temporary work in whatever country I happen to be in at that
moment..?


Unlikely to be productive, without a work visa you'll struggle to get
any worthwhile work (you'll waste more time looking than just moving
on to a cheaper country) If you can get a work visa then you can
probably do ok - not sure how easy that is for a USAian, but there's
probably something you can get for Australia or similar.

Someone told me that it's easy to find some work in Ireland or the UK
(though he based it on English being my native language.) You've mentioned
Australia twice, so my guess is that you're from the land of Oz. Would this
mean you've travelled the world? What do you mean.. I can get a work visa
headed for Australia? and what would be similar? What kind of work would
you predict?

The simple fact of having to learn the languages could make this
trip relatively impossibly itself.


Not really.

I imagine the whole thing would cost thousands of dollars..


Almost certainly, but McDonalds pays a few hundred a week yeah? get an
evening job too, and you can easily earn the thousands you need
quickly enough - just don't spend much! Treat the lack of rent as
particular good fortune.

Oh, it is! Especially since I'm on 55 wooded acres in a mountainous area
full of state protected land. A pond (2) almost big enough to sail a small
boat in.. and about ten large koi which I feed every other day.

and how much of it is possible.


All of it's possible, thousands of people have done it.

I'm somewhat unsure this question is genuine, but I've given you the
benefit of the doubt - get a job and you'll be away soon enough, cash
seems to be the only thing you're lacking right now.

Jim.


Do you think it's a worthwhile aspiration? Part of me wonders about whether
I need this or if simply going to school would be better use of my time and
money - though I've been having some trouble with myself, and a trip like
this would be somewhat of a "soul-search." It's exciting to think about
anyway, and even if I don't go, I'm sure to learn something about myself and
this world just in the process of planning. What do you mean about the
question being geniune?


Christopher

  #4  
Old September 12th, 2003, 10:38 PM
Jim Ley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Cheap and safe around the world

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:14:36 GMT, Christopher
wrote:

in article , Jim Ley at
wrote on 9/12/03 3:40 PM:
It's not crazy, it's something millions of 18yr olds do all the time,
I believe it's obligatory from Australians for example.

Thanks for your reply, Jim. You're saying Australians go after this quite
often? Why would that be?.. just curious.


Every country does it! Being English, and living in England there's a
general perception that there's more Australians in the UK, than in Oz
- if you get served in a pub by anyone but an Ozzie (well Kiwi's and
South Africans are allowed too), then something's wrong.

I suppose the danger or "craziness" of
the trip would all depend on what you plan to do around the place.


No, there's virtually no danger (well not much more and possibly less
than staying home) and it's not crazy, it's normal.

Wait.. perhaps you meant that in relation to what sort of job I can
get to raise money..?


Yes, if you're in the Northeast US I assume you can work 60 hours a
week at minimum wage would seem to get 8000 USD in 6months, even
paying out 3 of that in food and tax and stuff, should leave you
enough for a good trip - do better than minimum wage, and you'll have
more money to spend.

Anyway, I'd like to know what countries would
probably be the easiest to travel.


Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Canada... All are trivial, they
speak your language, have a huge number of backpackers, and are
reasonably cheap. Europe is easy too of course, but it's more
expensive (especially the north) so eats your budget quicker.

How dangerous do you think it'd be to hitch?


depends on the country, it's rarely necessary if you're in "safe"
countries though, it's easy enough to get lifts in hostels and stuff
(I've picked up a 350 mile lift in a private plane before, just by
drinking beer and asking in the hostel) so if you're flexible it's no
worries.

Clean with a shower sounds about
right - though I am willing to "rough it".. even further?


There's not much lower you can go to be honest, the unclean places can
normally be avoided without too much trouble, and aren't much cheaper
anyway. Hostel dorm type accommodation is available the world over
and doesn't cost much difference to a tent, a few dollars maybe, but
even in a tent you've generally got a shower and a kitchen etc. on
hand.

I am/was not sure if I would be able to really afford using the traditional
lodging venues during a trip around the world.. but I guess the American
dollar is worth quite a bit elsewhere?


Of course you can, in South Africa for example a bed in a hostel is
running at around 70rand a night so about 10 US Dollars a night,
another 10dollars for food and that's your minimum for ZA without
travel and fun stuff. ZA is probably reasonably middle price, so that
should be a reasonable guide.

Yes, of course! But I was referring to cheapest and safest methods of
obtaining food in foreign countries.


Generally you go up to the farmer and barter the beads you brought
from USA for some local corn or a freshly slaughtered pig - no you use
money, and walk into a supermarket, or go to the local market, or into
the local shop, it all works pretty much the same the world over.
Personally I find a nice cafe-y type place for breakfast and a read of
the local papers if they're in English - a book if not, spend a few
hours over that, then I cook for myself in the hostel for dinner, just
simple stuff, it's not hard, no harder than at home.

Someone told me that it's easy to find some work in Ireland or the UK
(though he based it on English being my native language.)


I have no experience of finding work in the UK without a visa, but
I've not heard it's easy, we give Canadians, South Africans, Kiwis,
Aussies work visas if they're young so the jobs are pretty with legal
workers, illegals will find it harder I expect. You may be able to
get a work visa of course.


Do you think it's a worthwhile aspiration?


Of course, everyone who doesn't do it, or think it's worthwhile is in
my mind the weird one.

I need this or if simply going to school would be better use of my time and
money


When you're doing it you'll meet lots of people who are in gap-years -
either between high-school and university at 18, or between university
and work, you'll also meet lots of other people at all ages, but a lot
will be around university age taking a year travelling it's completely
normal - our future King did it, although I imagine he had a bit of
cash behind him. It's not unusual or crazy.

What do you mean about the question being geniune?


Because so many people do it, and I can't really understand how
someone can not know other people who've done it, or are doing it.

Start he
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/index.cfm
and read, there's millions to read. Hopefully Miguel will come along
soon with some more advice, he's done an awful lot more than me, and
knows a lot of stuff.

Jim.
  #5  
Old September 12th, 2003, 11:12 PM
Miguel Cruz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Cheap and safe around the world

Christopher wrote:
Jim Ley at wrote on 9/12/03 3:40 PM:
It's not crazy, it's something millions of 18yr olds do all the time,
I believe it's obligatory from Australians for example.


Thanks for your reply, Jim. You're saying Australians go after this quite
often? Why would that be?.. just curious. What exactly do the millions of
18yr olds do, and why might that be? I suppose the danger or "craziness" of
the trip would all depend on what you plan to do around the place.


You are operating in a cloud because you (I assume based on your email
address) grew up here in the USA. Here we are taught that foreign travel is
dangerous and daring and that only the most intrepid dare stray beyond
London, Paris, Venice, and Caribbean resorts.

In fact almost everywhere on earth is safer than the USA. Once you cross the
threshold past that handful of places (London etc.) and into the rest of the
world, it'll become much clearer. I had my epiphany right after college,
when I went to Australia on my own with no guidebook and $50 in my pocket.
Everyone here assured me I was insane, I'd be lucky to survive, let alone
enjoy myself. I'd be out on the streets, robbed and beaten, and left for
dead - I was too young and inexperienced to try anything like that.

Well, I showed up at a hostel and was surprised to see that it, as well as
the dozens of others within a few blocks, was bursting at the seams with
teenagers from Europe traveling on their own. More shocking still, they'd
made their way to Australia after rolling by train, bus, and bike through
such exotic and surely deadly places as India, Pakistan, Indonesia, and so
on - on their own and traveling by wits and guesses. They all survived - and
loved it. I stayed in the hostel for several weeks (they floated me until I
could supplement my $50 by finding a job), during which time I met hundreds
of people, including a grand total of two Americans.

Yeah, I'm in the States (northeastern.) I don't plan on partying - mostly
interested in just seeing the geography and natural everyday things that
go on in large and small populated areas. What are my housing options?


They vary dramatically depending on where you are. In London you'll pay
$20/night for a spot on one of 20 bunk beds in a giant roach-infested hostel
room. In Bali you'll pay $2/night for your own private cottage a few minutes
from the beach, with breakfast carried to your porch each morning by a
gentle girl in a sarong with a flower in her hair.

Can you confirm for me what the 1st world countries are? I can guess..
but, you know.


It's a fuzzy line. Lonely Planet's web site (
www.lonelyplanet.com) can help
you set reasonable budgetary expectations for each country - click on
"worldguide" and then find the country you're interested in. Of course big
cities are often more expensive than nearby country areas. Truly remote
areas can also be expensive.

Wait.. perhaps you meant that in relation to what sort of job I can get to
raise money..? Anyway, I'd like to know what countries would probably be
the easiest to travel.


There are about 200 countries. Almost all of them are pretty easy to travel
in. The USA is one of the hardest by far because of the relative
unavailability of public transportation and backpacker accommodation. In
general southeast Asia is the backpacker's paradise - best food, lowest
prices, low crime, most beautiful surroundings, English is widely spoken by
people in the tourist trade. But other areas have special things to offer -
Africa's wildlife, Europe's majesty and history, south Asia's intense
culture, east Asia's hectic commerciality, Australia's laid-back ease, New
Zealand's natural beauty, Latin America's high crime and lousy food (with
some exceptions on the food but not really on the crime).

How dangerous do you think it'd be to hitch?


Depends on where you are. A few years back I hitched across west Africa with
a couple of friends (both female, and they'd hitched up from South Africa by
the time I flew over to meet them in Ghana). We never had any problems. In a
lot of places, though, the local transport is so cheap that it makes a lot
more sense to just take the bus. Often you can choose between the local
buses, which are tattered and bouncy and crowded, or backpacker buses, which
cost 5-10 times as much but are air-conditioned and only have one person to
a seat. In Europe of course you just use the same public transportation
(bus, train, air) as everyone else. Ask around among your fellow backpackers
for intelligence on the best deals.

Would probably be more interesting than a flight.. but, yeah. Clean with
a shower sounds about right - though I am willing to "rough it".. even
further? Backpacking sounds tough but fun, though I think it would limit
my general access.. (ie. can't pitch a tent in the city.) Perhaps backpack
across rural areas.. and when in urban environment use what it has to
offer? Might be a little too extreme though, do you think?


"Backpacking" has a different meaning in the USA from everywhere else. In
the USA it means hiking+camping. Everywhere else it means traveling on a
budget with your stuff in a backpack, and has nothing to do with camping. In
fact backpackers do not camp as a general rule.

I would probably need to learn some the basics of many languages..


Always useful, unless you leave the backpacker trail a fair bit, all
you really need is English.


It would be fun and interesting to learn anyway..


Hard, though, since English works so well. One exception is Latin America,
where once you get south of Mexico people just don't speak English that
much. There you'll find that Spanish is both useful and easy to learn.
People are friendly and patient with foreigners who speak lousy Spanish.

Would you be able to give me an outline of this? Perhaps sum it up to the
best of your knowledge.. and provide a web link, if you have one.


There's a fairly comprehensive list maintained by the US Dept of State he

http://travel.state.gov/foreignentryreqs.html

I see it's a little out of date (they claim you need a visa for UAE, which
isn't true), but it'll give you the general gist.

Yes, of course! But I was referring to cheapest and safest methods of
obtaining food in foreign countries. I suppose it would not be the best
idea to use restaurants at all times.. Would I even have a choice though?


Again, it depends on where you are. In developing countries food is usually
really cheap. It would be far more expensive to prepare your own crappy
spaghetti with tinned sauce in Thailand than to eat a delicious freshly-made
Thai meal at a local restaurant. And restaurants in places like Thailand
aren't like in the USA. There are blocks with dozens and dozens of places to
eat, none for more than $2 or so per meal and often less.

My personal strategy, honed by about 12 years of backpacking, is to avoid
tourist restaurants like the plague and to instead eat wherever I see a lot
of local people (including, without reservation, street food). Since
adopting this strategy I have never been sick, in multiple trips to Africa,
Asia, and Latin America. Meanwhile I have seen plenty of people get sick
from eating in restaurants at all price levels that cater mainly to
foreigners.

The other advantage of this is that you get more authentic food and more
interaction with locals, which is sort of the point of the trip in the first
place.

On the other hand, in Europe, eating out is expensive (basically as
expensive as in the USA) so it makes sense to stay in hostels with kitchens
and cook at least some of your meals. Group cooking in hostels is a social,
fun thing and a great way to meet people (as well as learn or share new
cooking styles and skills).

Someone told me that it's easy to find some work in Ireland or the UK
(though he based it on English being my native language.) You've mentioned
Australia twice, so my guess is that you're from the land of Oz. Would
this mean you've travelled the world? What do you mean.. I can get a work
visa headed for Australia? and what would be similar? What kind of work
would you predict?


American backpackers have a harder time getting work visas than most
Europeans. In part this is because Americans don't travel much, so not much
effort has been put into cooperative programs on this end. And in part it's
because the USA makes it quite difficult for backpackers from other
countries to come work.

Nevertheless, if you are or have recently been a student, you can get work
clearance in a number of countries. Check places like www.bunac.org for some
info.

Do you think it's a worthwhile aspiration? Part of me wonders about whether
I need this or if simply going to school would be better use of my time and
money - though I've been having some trouble with myself, and a trip like
this would be somewhat of a "soul-search."


This is the best thing you will ever do with your life (with the possible
exception of falling in love and getting married and raising happy
children). You will get more memories from each day of your trip than from
each year of the job you eventually settle into. You will learn more about
your own country - by seeing the rest of the world and the different ways
they do things - than you otherwise would in a lifetime. To be blunt, you
would be a jackass not to do it. Anyone who tries to talk you out of it is
either ignorant or jealous.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Site remodeled 10-Sept-2003: Hundreds of new photos, easier navigation.
  #6  
Old September 12th, 2003, 11:30 PM
Miguel Cruz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Cheap and safe around the world

Christopher wrote:
some of the places I would especially like to
travel are Europe and the far east, ie. Japan. Canada and Australia are
probably some of the last places I would visit - and any place that easily
accomodates the English language is probably one of the least interesting..


You mean like India?

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Site remodeled 10-Sept-2003: Hundreds of new photos, easier navigation.
  #7  
Old September 12th, 2003, 11:31 PM
Christopher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Cheap and safe around the world


Quick response from me this time (haven't got much of it.) Very, very
nice.. thank you, Jim! There are a couple of things I would like to mention
though: I don't think it's so common here in the US, but I may be isolated;
I've grown up in "outlying-suburban" and rural areas throughout my
childhood.. and I suppose the people I've known up until recently have not
been the most sophisticated or even curious about life in general. I don't
know, but I think there is probably some difference with you being in the UK
and wherever else. Another thing is that it seems you may be overlooking
the scope of my journey - some of the places I would especially like to
travel are Europe and the far east, ie. Japan. Canada and Australia are
probably some of the last places I would visit - and any place that easily
accomodates the English language is probably one of the least interesting..
because it is like just an extension of the American-global culture
(generally speaking, please.. don't bash me! I hope you understand.)
Another concern is that I fear the most interesting things may be outside of
the urban areas, into the countryside.. where people are still carrying on
their old traditions much like they have for centuries; I fear these places
may be the hardest to get to.


Christopher

in article , Jim Ley at
wrote on 9/12/03 5:38 PM:

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:14:36 GMT, Christopher
wrote:

in article
, Jim Ley at
wrote on 9/12/03 3:40 PM:
It's not crazy, it's something millions of 18yr olds do all the time,
I believe it's obligatory from Australians for example.

Thanks for your reply, Jim. You're saying Australians go after this quite
often? Why would that be?.. just curious.


Every country does it! Being English, and living in England there's a
general perception that there's more Australians in the UK, than in Oz
- if you get served in a pub by anyone but an Ozzie (well Kiwi's and
South Africans are allowed too), then something's wrong.

I suppose the danger or "craziness" of
the trip would all depend on what you plan to do around the place.


No, there's virtually no danger (well not much more and possibly less
than staying home) and it's not crazy, it's normal.

Wait.. perhaps you meant that in relation to what sort of job I can
get to raise money..?


Yes, if you're in the Northeast US I assume you can work 60 hours a
week at minimum wage would seem to get 8000 USD in 6months, even
paying out 3 of that in food and tax and stuff, should leave you
enough for a good trip - do better than minimum wage, and you'll have
more money to spend.

Anyway, I'd like to know what countries would
probably be the easiest to travel.


Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Canada... All are trivial, they
speak your language, have a huge number of backpackers, and are
reasonably cheap. Europe is easy too of course, but it's more
expensive (especially the north) so eats your budget quicker.

How dangerous do you think it'd be to hitch?


depends on the country, it's rarely necessary if you're in "safe"
countries though, it's easy enough to get lifts in hostels and stuff
(I've picked up a 350 mile lift in a private plane before, just by
drinking beer and asking in the hostel) so if you're flexible it's no
worries.

Clean with a shower sounds about
right - though I am willing to "rough it".. even further?


There's not much lower you can go to be honest, the unclean places can
normally be avoided without too much trouble, and aren't much cheaper
anyway. Hostel dorm type accommodation is available the world over
and doesn't cost much difference to a tent, a few dollars maybe, but
even in a tent you've generally got a shower and a kitchen etc. on
hand.

I am/was not sure if I would be able to really afford using the traditional
lodging venues during a trip around the world.. but I guess the American
dollar is worth quite a bit elsewhere?


Of course you can, in South Africa for example a bed in a hostel is
running at around 70rand a night so about 10 US Dollars a night,
another 10dollars for food and that's your minimum for ZA without
travel and fun stuff. ZA is probably reasonably middle price, so that
should be a reasonable guide.

Yes, of course! But I was referring to cheapest and safest methods of
obtaining food in foreign countries.


Generally you go up to the farmer and barter the beads you brought
from USA for some local corn or a freshly slaughtered pig - no you use
money, and walk into a supermarket, or go to the local market, or into
the local shop, it all works pretty much the same the world over.
Personally I find a nice cafe-y type place for breakfast and a read of
the local papers if they're in English - a book if not, spend a few
hours over that, then I cook for myself in the hostel for dinner, just
simple stuff, it's not hard, no harder than at home.

Someone told me that it's easy to find some work in Ireland or the UK
(though he based it on English being my native language.)


I have no experience of finding work in the UK without a visa, but
I've not heard it's easy, we give Canadians, South Africans, Kiwis,
Aussies work visas if they're young so the jobs are pretty with legal
workers, illegals will find it harder I expect. You may be able to
get a work visa of course.


Do you think it's a worthwhile aspiration?


Of course, everyone who doesn't do it, or think it's worthwhile is in
my mind the weird one.

I need this or if simply going to school would be better use of my time and
money


When you're doing it you'll meet lots of people who are in gap-years -
either between high-school and university at 18, or between university
and work, you'll also meet lots of other people at all ages, but a lot
will be around university age taking a year travelling it's completely
normal - our future King did it, although I imagine he had a bit of
cash behind him. It's not unusual or crazy.

What do you mean about the question being geniune?


Because so many people do it, and I can't really understand how
someone can not know other people who've done it, or are doing it.

Start he
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/index.cfm
and read, there's millions to read. Hopefully Miguel will come along
soon with some more advice, he's done an awful lot more than me, and
knows a lot of stuff.

Jim.


  #8  
Old September 12th, 2003, 11:42 PM
Jim Ley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Cheap and safe around the world

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 22:31:13 GMT, Christopher
wrote:

Another thing is that it seems you may be overlooking
the scope of my journey - some of the places I would especially like to
travel are Europe and the far east, ie. Japan. Canada and Australia are
probably some of the last places I would visit -


I was talking about those, simply because they are so easy to do, yet
a worthwhile introduction to backpacking, and you struck me as rather
inexperienced, so perhaps it would be good. I started with India,
English was again easy, and I didn't find it hard, but I was talking
to a guy recently who had just hitched from Ethiopa to Port Elizabeth
in South Africa, and was chatting and he said that India was the
hardest place he'd ever been, the stress of the poverty there was too
much. I'd definately recommend starting somewhere easy to dip your
toe in.

Another concern is that I fear the most interesting things may be outside of
the urban areas, into the countryside.. where people are still carrying on
their old traditions much like they have for centuries;


Pretty hard to find those, 3 years ago I was 4000m up in the himalyas
sleeping with some shepherds, my mobile phone had signal...

I fear these places may be the hardest to get to.


Not really, just to find.

Jim.
  #9  
Old September 13th, 2003, 03:45 AM
June Wong
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Cheap and safe around the world

I find the discussion quite interesting.
I got several experiences travelled aroung Eastern and Central Europe/ US/
South & Central America and Asia from 2 weeks to 6 months. Superisingly I
found the world much easier and safer to travel than I would hv thought
before the trips. Sometimes I even found it less challenging. In fact, US is
amoung the most expensive, inconvenience and dangerous place in the travel
world.
All your worries on languages, lodgings, foods basically are easy to
handle - sometimes it is where you get the fun and inspiration.
I guess all you need is some cash and an open mind.


"Christopher" ...

Quick response from me this time (haven't got much of it.) Very, very
nice.. thank you, Jim! There are a couple of things I would like to

mention
though: I don't think it's so common here in the US, but I may be

isolated;
I've grown up in "outlying-suburban" and rural areas throughout my
childhood.. and I suppose the people I've known up until recently have not
been the most sophisticated or even curious about life in general. I

don't
know, but I think there is probably some difference with you being in the

UK
and wherever else. Another thing is that it seems you may be overlooking
the scope of my journey - some of the places I would especially like to
travel are Europe and the far east, ie. Japan. Canada and Australia are
probably some of the last places I would visit - and any place that easily
accomodates the English language is probably one of the least

interesting..
because it is like just an extension of the American-global culture
(generally speaking, please.. don't bash me! I hope you understand.)
Another concern is that I fear the most interesting things may be outside

of
the urban areas, into the countryside.. where people are still carrying on
their old traditions much like they have for centuries; I fear these

places
may be the hardest to get to.


Christopher

in article , Jim Ley at
wrote on 9/12/03 5:38 PM:

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:14:36 GMT, Christopher
wrote:

in article
, Jim Ley at


wrote on 9/12/03 3:40 PM:
It's not crazy, it's something millions of 18yr olds do all the time,
I believe it's obligatory from Australians for example.

Thanks for your reply, Jim. You're saying Australians go after this

quite
often? Why would that be?.. just curious.


Every country does it! Being English, and living in England there's a
general perception that there's more Australians in the UK, than in Oz
- if you get served in a pub by anyone but an Ozzie (well Kiwi's and
South Africans are allowed too), then something's wrong.

I suppose the danger or "craziness" of
the trip would all depend on what you plan to do around the place.


No, there's virtually no danger (well not much more and possibly less
than staying home) and it's not crazy, it's normal.

Wait.. perhaps you meant that in relation to what sort of job I can
get to raise money..?


Yes, if you're in the Northeast US I assume you can work 60 hours a
week at minimum wage would seem to get 8000 USD in 6months, even
paying out 3 of that in food and tax and stuff, should leave you
enough for a good trip - do better than minimum wage, and you'll have
more money to spend.

Anyway, I'd like to know what countries would
probably be the easiest to travel.


Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Canada... All are trivial, they
speak your language, have a huge number of backpackers, and are
reasonably cheap. Europe is easy too of course, but it's more
expensive (especially the north) so eats your budget quicker.

How dangerous do you think it'd be to hitch?


depends on the country, it's rarely necessary if you're in "safe"
countries though, it's easy enough to get lifts in hostels and stuff
(I've picked up a 350 mile lift in a private plane before, just by
drinking beer and asking in the hostel) so if you're flexible it's no
worries.

Clean with a shower sounds about
right - though I am willing to "rough it".. even further?


There's not much lower you can go to be honest, the unclean places can
normally be avoided without too much trouble, and aren't much cheaper
anyway. Hostel dorm type accommodation is available the world over
and doesn't cost much difference to a tent, a few dollars maybe, but
even in a tent you've generally got a shower and a kitchen etc. on
hand.

I am/was not sure if I would be able to really afford using the

traditional
lodging venues during a trip around the world.. but I guess the

American
dollar is worth quite a bit elsewhere?


Of course you can, in South Africa for example a bed in a hostel is
running at around 70rand a night so about 10 US Dollars a night,
another 10dollars for food and that's your minimum for ZA without
travel and fun stuff. ZA is probably reasonably middle price, so that
should be a reasonable guide.

Yes, of course! But I was referring to cheapest and safest methods of
obtaining food in foreign countries.


Generally you go up to the farmer and barter the beads you brought
from USA for some local corn or a freshly slaughtered pig - no you use
money, and walk into a supermarket, or go to the local market, or into
the local shop, it all works pretty much the same the world over.
Personally I find a nice cafe-y type place for breakfast and a read of
the local papers if they're in English - a book if not, spend a few
hours over that, then I cook for myself in the hostel for dinner, just
simple stuff, it's not hard, no harder than at home.

Someone told me that it's easy to find some work in Ireland or the UK
(though he based it on English being my native language.)


I have no experience of finding work in the UK without a visa, but
I've not heard it's easy, we give Canadians, South Africans, Kiwis,
Aussies work visas if they're young so the jobs are pretty with legal
workers, illegals will find it harder I expect. You may be able to
get a work visa of course.


Do you think it's a worthwhile aspiration?


Of course, everyone who doesn't do it, or think it's worthwhile is in
my mind the weird one.

I need this or if simply going to school would be better use of my time

and
money


When you're doing it you'll meet lots of people who are in gap-years -
either between high-school and university at 18, or between university
and work, you'll also meet lots of other people at all ages, but a lot
will be around university age taking a year travelling it's completely
normal - our future King did it, although I imagine he had a bit of
cash behind him. It's not unusual or crazy.

What do you mean about the question being geniune?


Because so many people do it, and I can't really understand how
someone can not know other people who've done it, or are doing it.

Start he
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/index.cfm
and read, there's millions to read. Hopefully Miguel will come along
soon with some more advice, he's done an awful lot more than me, and
knows a lot of stuff.

Jim.




  #10  
Old September 15th, 2003, 03:11 AM
alyssa
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Cheap and safe around the world

This is the best thing you will ever do with your life (with the possible
exception of falling in love and getting married and raising happy
children). You will get more memories from each day of your trip than from
each year of the job you eventually settle into.


I totally agree with you, Miguel. It has been 6 years since I
backpacked alone to Europe, and I still remembered everything that
happened and everyone I met during the trip. I was a 27 year old
Singaporean Chinese woman, and though many thought that it was a crazy
idea to do so, I was amazed to see many Japanese women who are younger
than me doing the same thing. They also travelled alone, stayed in
hostels, used public transport, and they had more problems since they
spoke very little English. This is really something that every person
should do at least once in their lifetime.


(Miguel Cruz) wrote in message ...
Christopher wrote:
Jim Ley at
wrote on 9/12/03 3:40 PM:
It's not crazy, it's something millions of 18yr olds do all the time,
I believe it's obligatory from Australians for example.


Thanks for your reply, Jim. You're saying Australians go after this quite
often? Why would that be?.. just curious. What exactly do the millions of
18yr olds do, and why might that be? I suppose the danger or "craziness" of
the trip would all depend on what you plan to do around the place.


You are operating in a cloud because you (I assume based on your email
address) grew up here in the USA. Here we are taught that foreign travel is
dangerous and daring and that only the most intrepid dare stray beyond
London, Paris, Venice, and Caribbean resorts.

In fact almost everywhere on earth is safer than the USA. Once you cross the
threshold past that handful of places (London etc.) and into the rest of the
world, it'll become much clearer. I had my epiphany right after college,
when I went to Australia on my own with no guidebook and $50 in my pocket.
Everyone here assured me I was insane, I'd be lucky to survive, let alone
enjoy myself. I'd be out on the streets, robbed and beaten, and left for
dead - I was too young and inexperienced to try anything like that.

Well, I showed up at a hostel and was surprised to see that it, as well as
the dozens of others within a few blocks, was bursting at the seams with
teenagers from Europe traveling on their own. More shocking still, they'd
made their way to Australia after rolling by train, bus, and bike through
such exotic and surely deadly places as India, Pakistan, Indonesia, and so
on - on their own and traveling by wits and guesses. They all survived - and
loved it. I stayed in the hostel for several weeks (they floated me until I
could supplement my $50 by finding a job), during which time I met hundreds
of people, including a grand total of two Americans.

Yeah, I'm in the States (northeastern.) I don't plan on partying - mostly
interested in just seeing the geography and natural everyday things that
go on in large and small populated areas. What are my housing options?


They vary dramatically depending on where you are. In London you'll pay
$20/night for a spot on one of 20 bunk beds in a giant roach-infested hostel
room. In Bali you'll pay $2/night for your own private cottage a few minutes
from the beach, with breakfast carried to your porch each morning by a
gentle girl in a sarong with a flower in her hair.

Can you confirm for me what the 1st world countries are? I can guess..
but, you know.


It's a fuzzy line. Lonely Planet's web site (
www.lonelyplanet.com) can help
you set reasonable budgetary expectations for each country - click on
"worldguide" and then find the country you're interested in. Of course big
cities are often more expensive than nearby country areas. Truly remote
areas can also be expensive.

Wait.. perhaps you meant that in relation to what sort of job I can get to
raise money..? Anyway, I'd like to know what countries would probably be
the easiest to travel.


There are about 200 countries. Almost all of them are pretty easy to travel
in. The USA is one of the hardest by far because of the relative
unavailability of public transportation and backpacker accommodation. In
general southeast Asia is the backpacker's paradise - best food, lowest
prices, low crime, most beautiful surroundings, English is widely spoken by
people in the tourist trade. But other areas have special things to offer -
Africa's wildlife, Europe's majesty and history, south Asia's intense
culture, east Asia's hectic commerciality, Australia's laid-back ease, New
Zealand's natural beauty, Latin America's high crime and lousy food (with
some exceptions on the food but not really on the crime).

How dangerous do you think it'd be to hitch?


Depends on where you are. A few years back I hitched across west Africa with
a couple of friends (both female, and they'd hitched up from South Africa by
the time I flew over to meet them in Ghana). We never had any problems. In a
lot of places, though, the local transport is so cheap that it makes a lot
more sense to just take the bus. Often you can choose between the local
buses, which are tattered and bouncy and crowded, or backpacker buses, which
cost 5-10 times as much but are air-conditioned and only have one person to
a seat. In Europe of course you just use the same public transportation
(bus, train, air) as everyone else. Ask around among your fellow backpackers
for intelligence on the best deals.

Would probably be more interesting than a flight.. but, yeah. Clean with
a shower sounds about right - though I am willing to "rough it".. even
further? Backpacking sounds tough but fun, though I think it would limit
my general access.. (ie. can't pitch a tent in the city.) Perhaps backpack
across rural areas.. and when in urban environment use what it has to
offer? Might be a little too extreme though, do you think?


"Backpacking" has a different meaning in the USA from everywhere else. In
the USA it means hiking+camping. Everywhere else it means traveling on a
budget with your stuff in a backpack, and has nothing to do with camping. In
fact backpackers do not camp as a general rule.

I would probably need to learn some the basics of many languages..

Always useful, unless you leave the backpacker trail a fair bit, all
you really need is English.


It would be fun and interesting to learn anyway..


Hard, though, since English works so well. One exception is Latin America,
where once you get south of Mexico people just don't speak English that
much. There you'll find that Spanish is both useful and easy to learn.
People are friendly and patient with foreigners who speak lousy Spanish.

Would you be able to give me an outline of this? Perhaps sum it up to the
best of your knowledge.. and provide a web link, if you have one.


There's a fairly comprehensive list maintained by the US Dept of State he

http://travel.state.gov/foreignentryreqs.html

I see it's a little out of date (they claim you need a visa for UAE, which
isn't true), but it'll give you the general gist.

Yes, of course! But I was referring to cheapest and safest methods of
obtaining food in foreign countries. I suppose it would not be the best
idea to use restaurants at all times.. Would I even have a choice though?


Again, it depends on where you are. In developing countries food is usually
really cheap. It would be far more expensive to prepare your own crappy
spaghetti with tinned sauce in Thailand than to eat a delicious freshly-made
Thai meal at a local restaurant. And restaurants in places like Thailand
aren't like in the USA. There are blocks with dozens and dozens of places to
eat, none for more than $2 or so per meal and often less.

My personal strategy, honed by about 12 years of backpacking, is to avoid
tourist restaurants like the plague and to instead eat wherever I see a lot
of local people (including, without reservation, street food). Since
adopting this strategy I have never been sick, in multiple trips to Africa,
Asia, and Latin America. Meanwhile I have seen plenty of people get sick
from eating in restaurants at all price levels that cater mainly to
foreigners.

The other advantage of this is that you get more authentic food and more
interaction with locals, which is sort of the point of the trip in the first
place.

On the other hand, in Europe, eating out is expensive (basically as
expensive as in the USA) so it makes sense to stay in hostels with kitchens
and cook at least some of your meals. Group cooking in hostels is a social,
fun thing and a great way to meet people (as well as learn or share new
cooking styles and skills).

Someone told me that it's easy to find some work in Ireland or the UK
(though he based it on English being my native language.) You've mentioned
Australia twice, so my guess is that you're from the land of Oz. Would
this mean you've travelled the world? What do you mean.. I can get a work
visa headed for Australia? and what would be similar? What kind of work
would you predict?


American backpackers have a harder time getting work visas than most
Europeans. In part this is because Americans don't travel much, so not much
effort has been put into cooperative programs on this end. And in part it's
because the USA makes it quite difficult for backpackers from other
countries to come work.

Nevertheless, if you are or have recently been a student, you can get work
clearance in a number of countries. Check places like www.bunac.org for some
info.

Do you think it's a worthwhile aspiration? Part of me wonders about whether
I need this or if simply going to school would be better use of my time and
money - though I've been having some trouble with myself, and a trip like
this would be somewhat of a "soul-search."


This is the best thing you will ever do with your life (with the possible
exception of falling in love and getting married and raising happy
children). You will get more memories from each day of your trip than from
each year of the job you eventually settle into. You will learn more about
your own country - by seeing the rest of the world and the different ways
they do things - than you otherwise would in a lifetime. To be blunt, you
would be a jackass not to do it. Anyone who tries to talk you out of it is
either ignorant or jealous.

miguel

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cheap place to stay in Hong Kong? Doug T Asia 0 September 16th, 2003 12:56 PM
Cheap place to stay in Hong Kong? Rupert Fiennes Asia 1 September 12th, 2003 04:54 PM
Cheap place to stay in Hong Kong? Miguel Cruz Asia 1 September 12th, 2003 04:44 PM
Cheap place to stay in Hong Kong? aimee Asia 2 September 12th, 2003 01:17 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 TravelBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.