Insurance fails to pay up.

In message , at 10:23:58 on Mon, 4 Oct 2004,
anonymous remarked:

my insurance (through my employer, the State Medical School) convers
pre-existing conditions from day 1.

That's a huge corporate scheme, and doesn't count. We are talking about
individuals buying on the spot market.

But sounds like a good place to get a job if you have a long term
illness.
--
Roland Perry

We could speculate on just what sort of reasons might invalidate a
claim for injuries from falling from a balcony, but I wouldn't want to
add insult to injury....



On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 19:34:50 -0400, "Miss L. Toe"
wrote:

OK I don't know the details but this doesn't sound very nice:

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 09:35:30 -0400, "Miss L. Toe"
wrote:
[snip]
Interestingly, I have a close relative (covered under the list in
my annual
multi-trip policy) who has been diagnosed with cancer, AFTER I took
out the
policy. Since knowing of the diagnosis I have booked travel, Would
they
cover me if I needed to return ??

Probably not as it's required of your contract (in the UK at least)
that you keep them informed them of all material facts that affect
the
contract.

Not between renewals usually IME

(uk.legal added)

"Hilary" wrote in message
...
[snip]
Interesting how you English equate "drinking" and "get drunk"

English? Never mind.

Sorry if that's an insult - no offence intended.

As far as insurance can be concerned, even *1* drink can invalidate
your
claim if you then do something stupid (fall over a balcony, fall off
a
moped, etc.) which can be considered at least partially a result of
the
alcohol.

IMHO, not legitimately it can't. But of course insurers will try ...

(I was also replying to a previous poster talking about holidays in
Ibiza
- not particularly known for its family alcohol-free holidays...)


Fairy nuff

(uk.legal added)

Travel Guard is one such.

Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 18:30:56 on Sun,
3 Oct 2004, Frank F. Matthews remarked:

Much simpler to get a policy that will cover preexisting conditions.


Available from the Porcine Aviator Insurance Co?

Of course with employer medical insurance in the US there are legal
restrictions on coverage limitations. Basically if you were covered for
something on your previous policy and if the problem is covered on the
new policy then there is no claim of a pre existing condition.

For travel policies there are a number of ones which cover preexisting
conditions when purchased from 1-2 weeks of purchasing the trip.

Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 10:23:58 on Mon, 4 Oct 2004,
anonymous remarked:

my insurance (through my employer, the State Medical School) convers
pre-existing conditions from day 1.


That's a huge corporate scheme, and doesn't count. We are talking about
individuals buying on the spot market.

But sounds like a good place to get a job if you have a long term illness.

Hilary wrote:

so next time i go on a summer ibizia holiday it dont really matter

if i have

insurance or not....... if it get invalidated then i may as well

save my £40

and not buy it.

If you get drunk and

[snip]

Just try not to injure yourself or lose anything while
drinking.

[snip]

Interesting how you English equate "drinking" and "get drunk"

English? Never mind.

As far as insurance can be concerned, even *1* drink can invalidate your
claim if you then do something stupid (fall over a balcony, fall off a
moped, etc.) which can be considered at least partially a result of the
alcohol.

(I was also replying to a previous poster talking about holidays in Ibiza
- not particularly known for its family alcohol-free holidays...)
Hilary

The terms that I've see refer to "abuse". I doubt that 1 drink would
ever qualify for the exclusion.

In message , at 01:52:40 on Tue, 5
Oct 2004, Frank F. Matthews remarked:
Travel Guard is one such.

Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 18:30:56 on
Sun, 3 Oct 2004, Frank F. Matthews
remarked:

Much simpler to get a policy that will cover preexisting conditions.
Available from the Porcine Aviator Insurance Co?

Only up to a point. Their conditions for pre-existing conditions a

Worldwide Health Extended - $2,500 limit;
Worldwide Health - For U.S. Citizens Traveling Abroad - $1,000 Limit;
Worldwide Health - For Non-U.S. Citizens Traveling Outside Their Home
Country - No Coverage

And in common with other American-based health insurance they have high
"excess" (deductible) [you get to choose from $100 to $2500] and then
pay only the first 80% of the next $5000 within the USA.

Europeans are more familiar with policies with zero excess for health,
and 100% payments.

And the premiums will reflect the choice of excess, so it might be very
expensive to have lower than $500, and so an American abroad with a
pre-existing condition will get a maximum payment of $500, or if
travelling inside the USA, 80% of $2,000.

These amounts won't cover much more than an initial consultation should
you fall ill on holiday, and are nothing like the $20M that a typical
European policy will pay.

The fees section also has stealth conditions. For example if you are
aged 70-80 US citizen travelling abroad, you can only buy up to $50K of
cover, not $1M. That's $480 for a $500 deductible, a huge premium to
European eyes, and for such small coverage.

There are other exclusions that sound odd to European ears, such as:
"Charges for use of Emergency Room for treatment of Illness unless the
patient is directly admitted to the Hospital as Inpatient for further
treatment of that Illness." So if the visit to the emergency room cures
the condition, you don't get paid! Perhaps this reflects an American
culture that the hospital will admit you as a lucrative in-patient if
you have more than a scratched fingernail, but it's surprising how many
minor injuries a British Emergency room will provide full treatment for
(ahead of you returning home for a follow-up).

Finally (and this is the really crucial one in the context of the
current discussion) there appears to be *no* coverage whatsoever for
cancelling a trip because one of the group, or a close relative, falls
ill. (Only for aborting a trip once it's started).
--
Roland Perry

First consideration of pre-existing conditions.

PRE-EXISTING MEDICAL CONDITION EXCLUSION WAIVER:
The Pre-Existing Medical Condition Exclusion will be waived if the
insurance is purchased within fifteen calendar days of the "initial trip
payment." (Day one is the date the “initial trip payment” is received.)
This exclusion applies to all coverages. It applies to the Insured, all
the Immediate Family Members, and Traveling Companions, whether or not
they are traveling with the Insured. Please read it carefully.


$25,000: Medical Expenses
Covers necessary medical expenses up to one year after the sickness or
injury, provided you sought initial medical treatment while on your trip.

$300,000: Emergency Medical Transportation
Covers evacuation and transportation to the nearest adequate medical
facility.

These amounts appear adequate for those portions of medical expenses not
covered by my regular insurance when abroad. Feel free to research the
conditions for Travel Guard for details that I've missed. The coverage
for those over 70 does not appear impaired but I'm sure the fee for the
policy will increase considerably.

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 01:52:40 on Tue, 5
Oct 2004, Frank F. Matthews remarked:

Travel Guard is one such.

Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 18:30:56 on
Sun, 3 Oct 2004, Frank F. Matthews
remarked:

Much simpler to get a policy that will cover preexisting conditions.

Available from the Porcine Aviator Insurance Co?


Only up to a point. Their conditions for pre-existing conditions a

Worldwide Health Extended - $2,500 limit;
Worldwide Health - For U.S. Citizens Traveling Abroad - $1,000 Limit;
Worldwide Health - For Non-U.S. Citizens Traveling Outside Their Home
Country - No Coverage

And in common with other American-based health insurance they have high
"excess" (deductible) [you get to choose from $100 to $2500] and then
pay only the first 80% of the next $5000 within the USA.

Europeans are more familiar with policies with zero excess for health,
and 100% payments.

And the premiums will reflect the choice of excess, so it might be very
expensive to have lower than $500, and so an American abroad with a
pre-existing condition will get a maximum payment of $500, or if
travelling inside the USA, 80% of $2,000.

These amounts won't cover much more than an initial consultation should
you fall ill on holiday, and are nothing like the $20M that a typical
European policy will pay.

The fees section also has stealth conditions. For example if you are
aged 70-80 US citizen travelling abroad, you can only buy up to $50K of
cover, not $1M. That's $480 for a $500 deductible, a huge premium to
European eyes, and for such small coverage.

There are other exclusions that sound odd to European ears, such as:
"Charges for use of Emergency Room for treatment of Illness unless the
patient is directly admitted to the Hospital as Inpatient for further
treatment of that Illness." So if the visit to the emergency room cures
the condition, you don't get paid! Perhaps this reflects an American
culture that the hospital will admit you as a lucrative in-patient if
you have more than a scratched fingernail, but it's surprising how many
minor injuries a British Emergency room will provide full treatment for
(ahead of you returning home for a follow-up).

Finally (and this is the really crucial one in the context of the
current discussion) there appears to be *no* coverage whatsoever for
cancelling a trip because one of the group, or a close relative, falls
ill. (Only for aborting a trip once it's started).

On 5/10/04 15:38, in article , "Frank
F. Matthews" wrote:

First consideration of pre-existing conditions.

PRE-EXISTING MEDICAL CONDITION EXCLUSION WAIVER:
The Pre-Existing Medical Condition Exclusion will be waived if the
insurance is purchased within fifteen calendar days of the "initial trip
payment." (Day one is the date the ³initial trip payment² is received.)
This exclusion applies to all coverages. It applies to the Insured, all
the Immediate Family Members, and Traveling Companions, whether or not
they are traveling with the Insured. Please read it carefully.


$25,000: Medical Expenses
Covers necessary medical expenses up to one year after the sickness or
injury, provided you sought initial medical treatment while on your trip.

$300,000: Emergency Medical Transportation
Covers evacuation and transportation to the nearest adequate medical
facility.

These amounts appear adequate for those portions of medical expenses not
covered by my regular insurance when abroad. Feel free to research the
conditions for Travel Guard for details that I've missed. The coverage
for those over 70 does not appear impaired but I'm sure the fee for the
policy will increase considerably.

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 01:52:40 on Tue, 5
Oct 2004, Frank F. Matthews remarked:

Travel Guard is one such.

Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 18:30:56 on
Sun, 3 Oct 2004, Frank F. Matthews
remarked:

Much simpler to get a policy that will cover preexisting conditions.

Available from the Porcine Aviator Insurance Co?


Only up to a point. Their conditions for pre-existing conditions a

Worldwide Health Extended - $2,500 limit;
Worldwide Health - For U.S. Citizens Traveling Abroad - $1,000 Limit;
Worldwide Health - For Non-U.S. Citizens Traveling Outside Their Home
Country - No Coverage

And in common with other American-based health insurance they have high
"excess" (deductible) [you get to choose from $100 to $2500] and then
pay only the first 80% of the next $5000 within the USA.

Europeans are more familiar with policies with zero excess for health,
and 100% payments.

And the premiums will reflect the choice of excess, so it might be very
expensive to have lower than $500, and so an American abroad with a
pre-existing condition will get a maximum payment of $500, or if
travelling inside the USA, 80% of $2,000.

These amounts won't cover much more than an initial consultation should
you fall ill on holiday, and are nothing like the $20M that a typical
European policy will pay.

The fees section also has stealth conditions. For example if you are
aged 70-80 US citizen travelling abroad, you can only buy up to $50K of
cover, not $1M. That's $480 for a $500 deductible, a huge premium to
European eyes, and for such small coverage.

There are other exclusions that sound odd to European ears, such as:
"Charges for use of Emergency Room for treatment of Illness unless the
patient is directly admitted to the Hospital as Inpatient for further
treatment of that Illness." So if the visit to the emergency room cures
the condition, you don't get paid! Perhaps this reflects an American
culture that the hospital will admit you as a lucrative in-patient if
you have more than a scratched fingernail, but it's surprising how many
minor injuries a British Emergency room will provide full treatment for
(ahead of you returning home for a follow-up).

Finally (and this is the really crucial one in the context of the
current discussion) there appears to be *no* coverage whatsoever for
cancelling a trip because one of the group, or a close relative, falls
ill. (Only for aborting a trip once it's started).


English insurance law is particularly insurer-friendly. Any
misrepresentation, material or not, may invalidate a policy. A material
misrepresentation certainly will invalidate it.

By contrast, in France they reduce the payment to the value of cover the
premium would have bought with all pre-existing conditions taken into
account.

In Germany, the pre-existing condition will invalidate the policy only if it
is relevant to the loss.

One might consider buying an offshore policy, such as AIG's, aimed at
expatriates.

I have often sent my insurers letters notifying them of happenings (such as
my unexpected employment assignment abroad). Sometimes they reply, sometimes
not. A few years ago I told my home fire insurer that although I had bought
minimum contents cover, I specifically wanted it to be secondary to my
household goods policy bought from an American insurer (because that was not
only new-for-old, much cheaper, and with much higher limits, but also had
far fewer exclusions). Of course they assented because it reduced their
risk; it also meant I didn't have double cover, the worst of all possible
situations since each insurer will split the loss and pay according to its
own terms.