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Super Jumbo Takes Off Using 'Green' Fuel



 
 
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  #21  
Old February 6th, 2008, 09:08 AM posted to rec.travel.europe,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.air
Mr. Travel
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Posts: 1,032
Default Super Jumbo Takes Off Using 'Green' Fuel

Bob Myers wrote:
, so we wind up with the need to
cover, say, the entire state of Ohio with solar panels for
a solar-driven fleet of vehicles to be supported.

Somehow...I don't think so.

Bob M.



Perhaps there is another source of energy that would make more sense
than solar panels? France has actually accomplished something there.
  #22  
Old February 6th, 2008, 05:21 PM posted to rec.travel.europe,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.air
William Black
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Posts: 3,125
Default Super Jumbo Takes Off Using 'Green' Fuel


"TMOliver" wrote in message
...

"William Black" wrote...
India wants to build loads but wants nuclear weapons as well, and so
isn't allowed to buy them.


Since I understand that India (with few fossil fuels of its own to recover
locally) is now the world's third largest consumer of energy (not counting
the energy consumed pumping those little spinning wheels), I applaud the
effort.


I do hope you apreciate that the spinning wheels are still being ,made.

I visited the famous spinning wheel factory founded by Gandhi in Ahmedabad
only this year.

I rather fancied one of the "businessman's models" that packed away into
its own laptop sized wooden briefcase so that the dedicated but travelling
follower could spin in the evenings in his hotel room.

But luggage allowances and courier rates to Europe (and the wife, who said
it would just be 'more clutter') decreed it was not to be, this trip
anyway...

As for other countries refusing to sell nuclear weapons, I thought India
had its own devices. Is the world refusing to sell India reactors for
power generation?


Yes.

They're trying to do a deal with the USA as I type but:

1. The left wing of the current Indian coalition won't play because they
say it gives the evil Imperialist Yankees too great a say in Indian policy.

2. There is an individual Congressman in the USA who is against it and
keeps 'fillibustering' (is that the right word) the act and stopping it
getting passed.

If so, given its technological leap forward and a traditionally modest
approach to minimizing industrial hazards, India could build one on every
corner. On the other hand "tea kettles" heated by uranium to produce
steam have largely been deemed unsuitable for cottage industry
applications. If you think thieves will cart off any available copper
wire, just think of what they might do with enriched fuel pellets.


India tends not to be like other places.

For example, I have a rather fetching elephant hair bracelet made with
copper wire 'salvaged' from the railway...

Only certain licensed rural villages are alowed to manufacture elephant hair
bracelets.

Nobody kicks too hard, you wouldn't want to find the 10:15 to Whereeverabad
held up by an elephant on the line...

India has its own design for reactors. It also has a fuel supply problem
caused by their none signature on the non proliferation treaty, and another
problem because India is not good at large projects and it's all running
very late indeed.

Remember that this is a country where adjoining plots of land were given to
two power companies to build conventional generating plants on, but one
plot overlapped the other slightly doe to a clerrical error.

The resultant mess then took ten years in the courts to sort out and was
resolved late last year.

Also remembering that India is a country where most of the people have power
for 10 hours in every twelve (except in the capital city where it's nine in
twelve) I find this incredible. But when I'm in India I live in the only
place with reliable 24 hour power...

"See the subtle glow in the Maharani's gardens! Those are not solar
powered low voltage lights!"


See the glow!

This is India.

They'd be selling tickets to the party illuminated by the new and exciting
green glow...

Quite possibly with the slogan "Take the glow home tonight"

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

  #23  
Old February 6th, 2008, 07:53 PM posted to rec.travel.europe,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.air
Mike.......[_2_]
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Posts: 325
Default Super Jumbo Takes Off Using 'Green' Fuel

Following up to Dusty Furtile Morrocan
wrote:

The notion of 'green fuel' is ridiculous. It's like saying low tar
cigarettes are healthy.


indeed, and its turning out that even more rainforest is being cut
down to make it. Its also causing food shortages. As for aircraft fuel
being too expensive, its actually way too cheap and escapes taxes.

Green, no. Sustainable, maybe.
--
Mike
Remove clothing to email
  #24  
Old February 6th, 2008, 08:44 PM posted to rec.travel.europe,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.air
Steve Cooper
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Posts: 5
Default Super Jumbo Takes Off Using 'Green' Fuel

Mike....... wrote:
Following up to Dusty Furtile Morrocan
wrote:


The notion of 'green fuel' is ridiculous. It's like saying low tar
cigarettes are healthy.



indeed, and its turning out that even more rainforest is being cut
down to make it. Its also causing food shortages. As for aircraft fuel
being too expensive, its actually way too cheap and escapes taxes.

Green, no. Sustainable, maybe.


Bio-airfuels are probably one of the few bio-fuels for which an argument can be made,
assuming you accept the basis of the argument that man is changing the climate due to the
amount of CO2 we are releasing from fossil reserves.

There are many equally good, and frequently better alternatives to using bio-fuels in our
cars and other ground based transport, and the effects on the general envireonment of the
production of bio-fuls to replace petrol & diesel far outways the benefits.

However in one areas there is little alternative at this time, air-fuels. Non of the
current alternatives have the energy capacity needed to make air-flight economic, however
the amount of air-fuel need is miniscule compared to the petrol & disel we use and can be
produced without any major general envireonmental effects.

The alternative to to make air-travel once again the privilage of the rich or to use
bio-airfuls and allow the world to travel.

Steve Cooper

  #25  
Old February 6th, 2008, 08:50 PM posted to rec.travel.europe,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.air
Mike.......[_2_]
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Posts: 325
Default Super Jumbo Takes Off Using 'Green' Fuel

Following up to Steve Cooper wrote:

however
the amount of air-fuel need is miniscule compared to the petrol & disel we use


for the moment, the expected growth will wipe out UKs attempts to cap
growth.
--
Mike
Remove clothing to email
  #26  
Old February 6th, 2008, 09:16 PM posted to rec.travel.europe,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.air
Steve Cooper
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Posts: 5
Default Super Jumbo Takes Off Using 'Green' Fuel

Mike....... wrote:
Following up to Steve Cooper wrote:


however
the amount of air-fuel need is miniscule compared to the petrol & disel we use



for the moment, the expected growth will wipe out UKs attempts to cap
growth.


Which is why you need a green alternative to using fossil fuels. Properly managed you can
produce enough bio-fuel to satisfy the air transport industry from waste bio-sources
without the need to cut down rain-forest for palm oil or any of the other detremental
actions needed to significatly replace fossil fuels with bio-fuels for ground transport.

Ground transport is much more suited to be part of the Hydrogen economy. But with current
technology Hydrogen is not going to ne an economic fuel for air-travel and this will be
the case the next few decades at least.

Accepting the GW premis, we neec to dramatically cut CO2 emmisions from fossil reserves
with the next 20 years. Asking people to do this by dramatically reducing their standard
of living will not work. You have to find ways to make the cuts with only marginal effects
on peopled standard of living. This is why Nuclear is a sensible option for the next few
decades until fusion comes into play, and why bio-airfuels are a sensible option. Thet
both allow us to cut CO2 emmission from fossil reserves whilst only reducing our standard
of living marginally.

I know some elements of the green lobby think we should suffer for the damage we've done
to the envireonment in the past and that we should cut our standard of living to what they
think are substainable levels. But people will not do this and we have to find ways to cut
CO2 that thet will live with. The alternative is to try for the impossible and fail and
live with the consequences

Steve Cooper

  #27  
Old February 6th, 2008, 11:02 PM posted to rec.travel.europe,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.air
Dusty Furtile Morrocan
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Posts: 387
Default Super Jumbo Takes Off Using 'Green' Fuel

On the particular moment of Wed, 06 Feb 2008 20:16:38 +0000 in
relation to Mary's disappointingly immaculate rumpy pumpy, Steve
Cooper put forth:

Mike....... wrote:


for the moment, the expected growth will wipe out UKs attempts to cap
growth.


Which is why you need a green alternative to using fossil fuels. Properly managed you can
produce enough bio-fuel to satisfy the air transport industry from waste bio-sources
without the need to cut down rain-forest for palm oil or any of the other detremental
actions needed to significatly replace fossil fuels with bio-fuels for ground transport.


"Properly managed", people will work for nothing, wars will be won
without death, and I will be overseeing it.

Ground transport is much more suited to be part of the Hydrogen economy. But with current
technology Hydrogen is not going to ne an economic fuel for air-travel and this will be
the case the next few decades at least.

Accepting the GW premis, we neec to dramatically cut CO2 emmisions from fossil reserves
with the next 20 years. Asking people to do this by dramatically reducing their standard
of living will not work. You have to find ways to make the cuts with only marginal effects
on peopled standard of living. This is why Nuclear is a sensible option for the next few
decades until fusion comes into play, and why bio-airfuels are a sensible option. Thet
both allow us to cut CO2 emmission from fossil reserves whilst only reducing our standard
of living marginally.


Dude, at least re-read your post once before hitting send. That looks
like you were typing it with your face.

I know some elements of the green lobby think we should suffer for the damage we've done
to the envireonment in the past and that we should cut our standard of living to what they
think are substainable levels. But people will not do this and we have to find ways to cut
CO2 that thet will live with. The alternative is to try for the impossible and fail and
live with the consequences


Greens have done a consistently lousy job thus far of predicting the
doomed future, so it's no wonder they are largely ignored now. All
they want to do is turn things around, as if that's ever going to
happen.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
  #28  
Old February 8th, 2008, 07:39 AM posted to rec.travel.europe,uk.politics.misc,rec.travel.air
Mr. Travel
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Posts: 1,032
Default Super Jumbo Takes Off Using 'Green' Fuel

Frank F. Matthews wrote:



Mr. Travel wrote:

Chocolate Sandwich wrote:

Saturday February 2, 08:36 AM
Super Jumbo Takes Off Using 'Green' Fuel

By Sky News
http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/02022008/140...reen-fuel.html




The Airbus A380, the world's largest passenger aircraft, has become
the first commercial plane to fly on "green" fuel.




What is the cost per barrel equivalent of this fuel?
Airlines aren't doing so great with the current fuel prices they pay.



I wonder why it is better to deplete natural gas than to deplete oil?


Burning natural gas is cleaner than burning oil.
 




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