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#51
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#52
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#53
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#54
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Karen Segboer wrote:
Benjamin Smith wrote: Karen Segboer wrote: Benjamin Smith wrote: Karen Segboer wrote: Cruise companies are in the money-making business. They want to draw as many of each generation as they can. Nothing wrong with that, doesn't bother me, and it's smart on their part. I find something wrong with an overemphasis on money making. That's what huge corporations who fund the building and operating of cruise ships want, though, Ben. Very little in business is as zen as you'd like it to be. Over the past few months I've had conversations with people from Asia and Africa where business is integrated into a concept of extended community service. The bottom line is striving for the well being of the community. These are very complex societies in some ways though they lack the material richness of Western societies. So, what I say isn't based on my wishes, but alternative ways of thinking about things. Yes, I know what you're saying, Ben, but I would be *very* surprised to see that come about in this country, or any western country, for that matter. Although Westerners/Americans admire and respect those alternate lifestyles ... actually, they are MORE than mere lifestyles, but alternate cultures ... they are not willing to adopt them. Right, but I'm not looking to adopt the cultures, just a sense of putting business in a cultural context in a way that is well suited to a Western society. And I'm not expecting this to happen overnight or perhaps in our lifetimes. But as we go more and more toward globalization and include different cultures in business in a global sense, perhaps some new (to us) sensibilities will seep into the how and why of what we do in business. And I hope our efficiencies benefit their societies. Now, we are not talking about the scale of finance that it takes to make fleets of ships, maintain them with efficiency, etc. And we are not talking about stock prices that encourage investments that provide more options for customers. Westerners crave that kind of atmosphere, that kind of competitiveness. It seems we know nothing else. I think competition is healthy. I think it has made Western societies advanced in technology that benefits the world, an example is the financing that was necessary to produce advanced drugs and medical techniques that lead the world. The problem is when money making takes over the point of what you do, as in the case of a vioxx, money making gets placed over the public's needs, where it becomes unhealthy and defeats the function of the company's products. We rely on laws, rather than a public spirit, consciousness, whatever you want to call it, to remember that we are doing things for primarily human purposes. We do it as a service to community. I'm also not saying I find everything attractive in these societies, I actually admire the quality of mass production that some large companies have attained. All I'm saying is there's a balance of realizing what you provide to people and the legacy of what you produce and at the same time providing those that support your corporations with reasonably positive financial returns. I understand. It's just a mutual respect for the way different cultures live their lives and run their businesses. Yes. Thanks. Ben S. Karen |
#55
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Karen Segboer wrote:
Benjamin Smith wrote: Karen Segboer wrote: Benjamin Smith wrote: Karen Segboer wrote: Cruise companies are in the money-making business. They want to draw as many of each generation as they can. Nothing wrong with that, doesn't bother me, and it's smart on their part. I find something wrong with an overemphasis on money making. That's what huge corporations who fund the building and operating of cruise ships want, though, Ben. Very little in business is as zen as you'd like it to be. Over the past few months I've had conversations with people from Asia and Africa where business is integrated into a concept of extended community service. The bottom line is striving for the well being of the community. These are very complex societies in some ways though they lack the material richness of Western societies. So, what I say isn't based on my wishes, but alternative ways of thinking about things. Yes, I know what you're saying, Ben, but I would be *very* surprised to see that come about in this country, or any western country, for that matter. Although Westerners/Americans admire and respect those alternate lifestyles ... actually, they are MORE than mere lifestyles, but alternate cultures ... they are not willing to adopt them. Right, but I'm not looking to adopt the cultures, just a sense of putting business in a cultural context in a way that is well suited to a Western society. And I'm not expecting this to happen overnight or perhaps in our lifetimes. But as we go more and more toward globalization and include different cultures in business in a global sense, perhaps some new (to us) sensibilities will seep into the how and why of what we do in business. And I hope our efficiencies benefit their societies. Now, we are not talking about the scale of finance that it takes to make fleets of ships, maintain them with efficiency, etc. And we are not talking about stock prices that encourage investments that provide more options for customers. Westerners crave that kind of atmosphere, that kind of competitiveness. It seems we know nothing else. I think competition is healthy. I think it has made Western societies advanced in technology that benefits the world, an example is the financing that was necessary to produce advanced drugs and medical techniques that lead the world. The problem is when money making takes over the point of what you do, as in the case of a vioxx, money making gets placed over the public's needs, where it becomes unhealthy and defeats the function of the company's products. We rely on laws, rather than a public spirit, consciousness, whatever you want to call it, to remember that we are doing things for primarily human purposes. We do it as a service to community. I'm also not saying I find everything attractive in these societies, I actually admire the quality of mass production that some large companies have attained. All I'm saying is there's a balance of realizing what you provide to people and the legacy of what you produce and at the same time providing those that support your corporations with reasonably positive financial returns. I understand. It's just a mutual respect for the way different cultures live their lives and run their businesses. Yes. Thanks. Ben S. Karen |
#56
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Surfer E2468 wrote:
KAREN: Yes you can sit on most ships and look out over the ocean,but wo wants to sit on a balcony all day,which is where you would have to be to do what we like to do,and my idea of cruising is not to hibernate in my roon,but to be on deck and mingle with the people. Most ships have promenade decks, located fairly low and under their lifeboats, with lounge chairs. I agree with you that public deck space is shrinking. My issue is the stern space that I used to enjoy is now used for balconies. Ben S. |
#57
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Surfer E2468 wrote:
KAREN: Yes you can sit on most ships and look out over the ocean,but wo wants to sit on a balcony all day,which is where you would have to be to do what we like to do,and my idea of cruising is not to hibernate in my roon,but to be on deck and mingle with the people. Most ships have promenade decks, located fairly low and under their lifeboats, with lounge chairs. I agree with you that public deck space is shrinking. My issue is the stern space that I used to enjoy is now used for balconies. Ben S. |
#58
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*bicker* wrote:
A Mon, 03 Jan 2005 23:28:34 GMT, Benjamin Smith escribió: So, what I say isn't based on my wishes, but alternative ways of thinking about things. I believe you're being disingenuous Too bad, but I'm not surprised. Happy New Year. Ben S. |
#59
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*bicker* wrote:
A Mon, 03 Jan 2005 23:28:34 GMT, Benjamin Smith escribió: So, what I say isn't based on my wishes, but alternative ways of thinking about things. I believe you're being disingenuous Too bad, but I'm not surprised. Happy New Year. Ben S. |
#60
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On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 12:48:45 GMT, Benjamin Smith wrote:
My issue is the stern space that I used to enjoy is now used for balconies. My issue is that there are not enough ships with stern balconies. |
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