Still another no fly list false alarm

Gregory Morrow wrote:

Mika wrote:

Go Fig wrote:

In article , Mxsmanic
wrote:

Gregory Morrow writes:

Well perhaps I am fairly astute at seeing Arab on. Arab racism -
it's plain
as day for anyone to see :-)

That doesn't make it an example to emulate.

With all that Arab oil dough ALL the Arabs in the Middle East should
be
living in a paradise.

With all that U.S. aid, Israel should be a paradise, too.

Per capita, the Paliestinians have received more aid then any other
group around...

Cite!

The EU alone has given at least several billions in aid since 1994...in fact
the EU is the main source of funds for the Palestinian Authority...

Germany alone has given over 100 billion Eur to Israel since 1965. The
claim was that the Palestinians get more money than Israel. Care to
prove that?


This year, assistance to the Palestinians from the European Community Budget
is set to amount to around ?250 million. This includes a package for the
West Bank and Gaza just approved by the European Commission for ?124.25
million. This weeky's announcement will be followed by the immediate release
of a first contribution of ?26m to the new Public Financial Management
Reform Trust Fund established by the World Bank. The West Bank and Gaza
Strip continue to suffer from a severe economic recession. Income levels
have dropped severely and the level of suffering is unprecedented. In
response to this, the 2004 programme pursues two objectives: addressing
urgent needs and contributing to the creation of a viable and democratic
Palestinian state."

That's not in dispute. However, Israel receives much more. Figgy claims
otherwise.


In 1980, the EU-9 put forward the Venice Declaration, which expressed
support for Palestinian self-determination. Funding then commenced for a
variety of NGO projects, in sectors such as health, agriculture, and
education.

Find anything wrong with that? Maybe they should just be left to starve
until they pack up and leave. But that is not going to happen. The US
also supports the Palestinians, as you well know.

the EU being a huge contributor to the private accounts
of the terrorist Arafat...

Crap.

This was something of a contretemps during Arafat's last year or so - where
on earth have YOU been? :-)

Arafat misappropriated funds like any good dictator. Nobody disputes
that.

But that was not Figgy's claim at all. Figgy's claim is that the EU is
'in on that' and directly transfers into Arafat's private black
accounts. That's what I called 'crap'. And if that were so, why do EU
politicians call for freezing aid? The links you provided effectively
shoot down his claim.

Of course Figgy never backs up any of the crap he posts.

m

On Tue, 24 May 2005 13:37:57 GMT, "Gregory Morrow"
gregorymorrowEMERGENCYCANCELLATIONARCHIMEDES@eart hlink.net wrote:

The EU alone has given at least several billions in aid since 1994...in fact
the EU is the main source of funds for the Palestinian Authority...

They can throw all the money they want at the Palestinians, but whilst
Israel does stuff like bombing the Gaza International Airport, that
money isn't going to help much.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

Mika wrote:

Gregory Morrow wrote:

Mika wrote:

Go Fig wrote:

In article , Mxsmanic
wrote:

Gregory Morrow writes:

Well perhaps I am fairly astute at seeing Arab on. Arab racism -
it's plain
as day for anyone to see :-)

That doesn't make it an example to emulate.

With all that Arab oil dough ALL the Arabs in the Middle East
should
be
living in a paradise.

With all that U.S. aid, Israel should be a paradise, too.

Per capita, the Paliestinians have received more aid then any other
group around...

Cite!

The EU alone has given at least several billions in aid since 1994...in
fact
the EU is the main source of funds for the Palestinian Authority...

Germany alone has given over 100 billion Eur to Israel since 1965. The
claim was that the Palestinians get more money than Israel.


From who?


Care to
prove that?


Prove what?


This year, assistance to the Palestinians from the European Community
Budget
is set to amount to around ?250 million. This includes a package for the
West Bank and Gaza just approved by the European Commission for ?124.25
million. This weeky's announcement will be followed by the immediate
release
of a first contribution of ?26m to the new Public Financial Management
Reform Trust Fund established by the World Bank. The West Bank and Gaza
Strip continue to suffer from a severe economic recession. Income levels
have dropped severely and the level of suffering is unprecedented. In
response to this, the 2004 programme pursues two objectives: addressing
urgent needs and contributing to the creation of a viable and democratic
Palestinian state."

That's not in dispute. However, Israel receives much more. Figgy claims
otherwise.


No he doesn't.


In 1980, the EU-9 put forward the Venice Declaration, which expressed
support for Palestinian self-determination. Funding then commenced for a
variety of NGO projects, in sectors such as health, agriculture, and
education.

Find anything wrong with that? Maybe they should just be left to starve
until they pack up and leave. But that is not going to happen. The US
also supports the Palestinians, as you well know.


I am simply presenting factual information - it's up to you to supply the
"bias" :-)


the EU being a huge contributor to the private accounts
of the terrorist Arafat...

Crap.

This was something of a contretemps during Arafat's last year or so -
where
on earth have YOU been? :-)

Arafat misappropriated funds like any good dictator. Nobody disputes
that.

But that was not Figgy's claim at all. Figgy's claim is that the EU is
'in on that' and directly transfers into Arafat's private black
accounts. That's what I called 'crap'. And if that were so, why do EU
politicians call for freezing aid? The links you provided effectively
shoot down his claim.


You must be reading different links.



Of course Figgy never backs up any of the crap he posts.



You should take care, boyo - Jay and I have sEKreT rays that we can aim at
yer mind...we can take control over yer WHOLE existence and you won't even
know it - beware, be VERY VERY afraid...!!!

--
Best
Greg

Deep Foiled Malls wrote:

On Tue, 24 May 2005 13:37:57 GMT, "Gregory Morrow"
gregorymorrowEMERGENCYCANCELLATIONARCHIMEDES@eart hlink.net wrote:

The EU alone has given at least several billions in aid since 1994...in
fact
the EU is the main source of funds for the Palestinian Authority...

They can throw all the money they want at the Palestinians, but whilst
Israel does stuff like bombing the Gaza International Airport, that
money isn't going to help much.


Do you know that five years after the Israelis shut down that airport there
are *still* 400 employees on daily duty there? Your EU aid euros at work!

--
Best
Greg

Gregory Morrow wrote:

You should take care, boyo - Jay and I have sEKreT rays that we can aim at
yer mind...we can take control over yer WHOLE existence and you won't even
know it - beware, be VERY VERY afraid...!!!

A bit early to be on the booze, eh?

m

Mika wrote:

Gregory Morrow wrote:

You should take care, boyo - Jay and I have sEKreT rays that we can aim
at
yer mind...we can take control over yer WHOLE existence and you won't
even
know it - beware, be VERY VERY afraid...!!!

A bit early to be on the booze, eh?


Diet Dr. Pepper actually :-)

--
Best
Greg

Gregory Morrow writes:

Do you know that five years after the Israelis shut down that airport there
are *still* 400 employees on daily duty there? Your EU aid euros at work!

Why was the airport shut down?

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Mxsmanic wrote:

Gregory Morrow writes:

Do you know that five years after the Israelis shut down that airport
there
are *still* 400 employees on daily duty there? Your EU aid euros at
work!

Why was the airport shut down?


Ostensibly to stop any possible arms, etc. ferrying during the Intifada:

Grounded in Gaza, but hoping to fly again
400 Palestinians show up for work daily at non-functioning airport

By Adrienne Mong
Producer

NBC News
Updated: 9:10 a.m. ET May 19, 2005


YASSER ARAFAT INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT, Gaza Strip - Abu Ali stared at the
empty chamber made of stone and marble and shrugged his shoulders. "This
place is like my house, and it's destroyed," said the 53-year old
Palestinian.

The "house" to which he was referring is the Yasser Arafat International
Airport, in the southern Gaza Strip.

Ali, the head of airport security, was standing in the arrivals hall, near a
luggage conveyor belt across from two passport control booths. Next to them
sat a new computer system on polished floors. The nearby well-furnished VIP
lounge had fluffy pillows and was noticeably dust-free. In fact, everything
looked as new as it did when the airport opened for business in 1998.

But it has been five years since the equipment has seen any use. The airport
was shut down in 2000, shortly after the beginning of the second intifada or
uprising. It has languished since, a symbol of lapsed potential - the
potential of peace, of progress, and of statehood.

Promises long ago

Seven years ago, Air Force One, ferrying U.S. President Bill Clinton,
touched down on the Gaza landing strip, heralding a new era for the 1.3
million Palestinian people crammed into the tiny stretch of land measuring
135 square miles. Finally, they could fly in and out of Gaza - up to half a
million Palestinians every year, in fact.

The $86 million shiny new facility also showed off Palestinian enterprise.

With funding from Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Spain, and Germany, as well as the
aid of Moroccan architects, the airport boasted intricately designed
ceilings and walls and state of the art equipment.

Seven hundred people working at the airport moved passengers and cargo from
Gaza to neighboring Egypt and Jordan, the Gulf States, Saudi Arabia,
Morocco, Turkey, and Cyprus. Jet planes the size of a Boeing 727 could land
on the single runway.

Just before the uprising, the Palestinian Civil Aviation Authority had
worked out an agreement for flights to and from Rome, according to Captain
Salman Abu Halib, the airport's director-general and chairman of the
Palestinian Civil Aviation Authority.

The heady days of air travel, however, were short-lived. As fighting
intensified from 2000 onwards, Israel tightened restrictions on Palestinians
moving in and out of Gaza and the West Bank and shut the airport.

Through 2001 and early 2002, Israeli air strikes chipped away the shiny
edges of what was once an emblem of prospective statehood.

Amid Israel's concerns that the Palestinians would attempt to smuggle in
weapons and terrorists, the runway, radar station, and exterior camera
security system were all destroyed.

But, the Israelis were very thorough; they sent armoured bulldozers onto the
runway to dig up the concrete into 17 separate pieces.

The ghost airport
Three years later, a stroll around the airport reveals a renewed sense of
hope. Every day, some 400 employees show up to work. They are paid a
regular, if minimum, salary by the Palestinian Authority.

Ali, the head of security, admits there isn't much to do, but the staff is
diligent about keeping the airport functional.

"We're trying to keep things safe and ready for whenever the airport
reopens," said Ali.

Every two days, he says, they run everything - the luggage carousel, the
security cameras, the x-ray machines, even the arrival/departure boards.

Of course, there is no aircraft to look after. The small fleet of
Palestinian Airways' planes is deployed around the region and in Europe
while the airport remains closed.

One reason Palestinians working at the airport are optimistic about its
future is the planned Israeli withdrawal from Gaza, due in mid-August after
being postponed once from July. The details have yet to be worked out, but
Ali and other Palestinians are hoping the airport will be one of the first
issues to be addressed on the post-withdrawal agenda.

"We don't know what the Israelis will or will not do," said Halib, the head
of the Palestinian Civil Aviation Authority, but he maintains the
Palestinian economy needs the airport to be rebuilt and reopened as soon as
possible. The Palestinians say $22 million worth of airport property was
destroyed and estimate revenue losses to be around $350 million.


A murky future

Israel, however, views the situation differently. "A seaport is more
important to the Palestinians and the Palestinian economy," said Shlomo
Dror, spokesman for the Coordinator of Government Activities in the
Territories at the Israeli Ministry of Defense.

According to Dror, ongoing discussions between the two sides have centered
around finding a location for new port facilities, perhaps in the northern
Gaza Strip, and not around the airport.

"The airport does not contribute to the Palestinian economy," said Dror, who
argues that most Palestinians did not benefit from the airport, only
diplomats and VIPs who could fly directly instead of having to travel out of
the region via Egypt or Jordan.

Moreover, "we had a lot of problems in the past with the airport," added the
Israeli spokesman.

In fact, despite all appearances, Israel was always supposed to be in charge
of the facility, as stipulated by the Interim Agreement on the West Bank and
Gaza Strip from 1995. Palestinian and Israeli aviation authorities were to
cooperate on flight operations as well as airport security.

The Israelis say the Palestinians failed to honor that agreement. "We are
the ones actually responsible for everyone coming in and getting out of the
West Bank and Gaza," said Dror. "[But the airport] was a way to bypass the
Interim Agreement, that the Palestinians can take out people without our
notice and without our security checks, and bring in weapons or things like
that."

But the Palestinians insist security is not the issue. "The problem with
Israel is not security," says Halib. "The problem is they want to continue
to punish us. They always had control."

Israel vetted all flight manifestsand monitored all flights into Gaza, said
Lt. Sharif Nahhal of the Palestinian Presidential Guard, a special armed
forces unit based at the airport.

In the arrivals hall, Ali, the airport security chief, points to a room that
housed Israeli officials who could come in anytime to check arriving
passengers and cargo.

But talks over re-opening the airport might be forestalled if the Israeli
pull-out from Gaza is delayed a second time. Tensions have resurfaced this
past week, threatening the fragile three-month ceasefire.

Palestinian militants have stepped up mortar fire and shelling directed at
Jewish settlements in Gaza, prompting a missile attack from Israel on
Wednesday, the first such air strike since the truce was agreed in early
February.

Israeli media reports suggest if the violence persists, the Israeli
government may re-visit the withdrawal timetable.

Even if Israel agrees to allow the airport to reopen, it would be at least
nine months before it could be operational. In the meantime, the staff
remain hopeful even as their jobs have lost a bit of their lustre over the
years.

"Politics is another world," said Nahhal, who once oversaw Yasser Arafat's
protection service at the airport but is now reduced to hosting the
occasional diplomatic delegation touring the facility. "It's not my
business. I just keep the [VIP lounge] clean and running."

Ali similarly prowls around the empty halls. "I feel like this is a museum
walk," he says, wryly. "I am like a tourism guard. A general manager of
airport museum walks."


© 2005 MSNBC.com

URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7900217/


--
Best
Greg

Greg wrote:
Deep Foiled Malls wrote:
On Tue, 24 May 2005 13:37:57 GMT, "Gregory Morrow"
gregorymorrowEMERGENCYCANCELL=ADATIONARCHIME...@e arthlink.net wrote:

The EU alone has given at least several billions in aid since 1994...in
fact
the EU is the main source of funds for the Palestinian Authority...


They can throw all the money they want at the Palestinians, but whilst
Israel does stuff like bombing the Gaza International Airport, that
money isn't going to help much.



Do you know that five years after the Israelis shut down that airport the=
re
are *still* 400 employees on daily duty there? Your EU aid euros at work!

The alternative being what? To leave them to starve? One way or the
other they have to be fed, whether it's at a derelict airport or in a
refugee camp.

Gregory Morrow writes:

Ostensibly to stop any possible arms, etc. ferrying during the Intifada:

So if a terrorist passes through Heathrow, will the Israelis shut that
airport down as well?

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.