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#51
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Driving in France
On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 19:29:37 +0100, Tom P wrote in post :
: On 11/07/2011 02:26 AM, Gerrit wrote: "Martin" wrote in message ... On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 15:30:50 +0100, Tom P wrote: On 11/01/2011 06:55 PM, Dave Smith wrote: On 31/10/2011 5:31 PM, James Silverton wrote: Parisian traffic circles have to be experienced! Other cities like London and Frankfurt are bad but don't compare with Paris. If you've ever seen someone step off the kerb near a rental agency and be wiped out, as I did, you'ld never rent in Paris. I went on a trip to Europe with my brothers and their wives. and our plan was to rent a car and end up in Paris. Having been in Paris before, I suggested that we drop the cars off at the airport and take public transport into the city. A SiL who had lived in France and been to Paris supported that suggestion. After we arrived downtown they understood and were glad they had agreed with me, I have been to the Arc de Triomphe several times and have never seen the traffic circle around it without at least one fender bender. One day while being taken to my hotel by taxi I pointed out to the driver that we had to go left because he was way over in the right hand lane. He knew that, but according to him, the vehicle on the right had the right of way, so if he went over to the right he could cut over to the left and everyone would have to let him in. That helped to explain why I saw so few cars without big dents in them. Not just according to the driver, it's the law at intersections. How did he survive in France without knowing that? -- Martin I have always thought that in counties where they drive (unnaturally) on the right hand side of the road they should have a give way to the left rule. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priority_to_the_right quote: Priority to the right is a right-of-way system, in which a driver of a vehicle shall give way to vehicles approaching from the right at intersections. The system is stipulated in Article 18.4.a of the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic for countries where traffic keeps to the right and applies to all intersections where it is not overridden by priority signs (uncontrolled intersections), including side roads and roundabouts (but not paths or earth-tracks). /quote You can see the official wording he www.unece.org/trans/conventn/crt1968e.pdf (page 18) quote: In States where traffic keeps to the right the driver of a vehicle shall give way, at intersections other than those specified in paragraph 2 of this Article and in Article 25, paragraphs 2 and 4 of this Convention, to vehicles approaching from his right; /quote And more or less rigorously adhered to, depending on country. -- Tim C. |
#52
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Driving in France
"Tom P" wrote in message ... On 11/07/2011 02:26 AM, Gerrit wrote: "Martin" wrote in message ... On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 15:30:50 +0100, Tom P wrote: On 11/01/2011 06:55 PM, Dave Smith wrote: On 31/10/2011 5:31 PM, James Silverton wrote: Parisian traffic circles have to be experienced! Other cities like London and Frankfurt are bad but don't compare with Paris. If you've ever seen someone step off the kerb near a rental agency and be wiped out, as I did, you'ld never rent in Paris. I went on a trip to Europe with my brothers and their wives. and our plan was to rent a car and end up in Paris. Having been in Paris before, I suggested that we drop the cars off at the airport and take public transport into the city. A SiL who had lived in France and been to Paris supported that suggestion. After we arrived downtown they understood and were glad they had agreed with me, I have been to the Arc de Triomphe several times and have never seen the traffic circle around it without at least one fender bender. One day while being taken to my hotel by taxi I pointed out to the driver that we had to go left because he was way over in the right hand lane. He knew that, but according to him, the vehicle on the right had the right of way, so if he went over to the right he could cut over to the left and everyone would have to let him in. That helped to explain why I saw so few cars without big dents in them. Not just according to the driver, it's the law at intersections. How did he survive in France without knowing that? -- Martin I have always thought that in counties where they drive (unnaturally) on the right hand side of the road they should have a give way to the left rule. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priority_to_the_right quote: Priority to the right is a right-of-way system, in which a driver of a vehicle shall give way to vehicles approaching from the right at intersections. The system is stipulated in Article 18.4.a of the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic for countries where traffic keeps to the right and applies to all intersections where it is not overridden by priority signs (uncontrolled intersections), including side roads and roundabouts (but not paths or earth-tracks). /quote You can see the official wording he www.unece.org/trans/conventn/crt1968e.pdf (page 18) quote: In States where traffic keeps to the right the driver of a vehicle shall give way, at intersections other than those specified in paragraph 2 of this Article and in Article 25, paragraphs 2 and 4 of this Convention, to vehicles approaching from his right; /quote Just because it is the law it doesn't make it sensible. Take the round-abouts in Europe. They all have to have a give way to the people on the round-about otherwise they fill up and cause a traffic jam. |
#53
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Driving in France
"Gerrit" writes:
"Tom P" wrote in message ... On 11/07/2011 02:26 AM, Gerrit wrote: "Martin" wrote in message ... On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 15:30:50 +0100, Tom P wrote: On 11/01/2011 06:55 PM, Dave Smith wrote: On 31/10/2011 5:31 PM, James Silverton wrote: Parisian traffic circles have to be experienced! Other cities like London and Frankfurt are bad but don't compare with Paris. If you've ever seen someone step off the kerb near a rental agency and be wiped out, as I did, you'ld never rent in Paris. I went on a trip to Europe with my brothers and their wives. and our plan was to rent a car and end up in Paris. Having been in Paris before, I suggested that we drop the cars off at the airport and take public transport into the city. A SiL who had lived in France and been to Paris supported that suggestion. After we arrived downtown they understood and were glad they had agreed with me, I have been to the Arc de Triomphe several times and have never seen the traffic circle around it without at least one fender bender. One day while being taken to my hotel by taxi I pointed out to the driver that we had to go left because he was way over in the right hand lane. He knew that, but according to him, the vehicle on the right had the right of way, so if he went over to the right he could cut over to the left and everyone would have to let him in. That helped to explain why I saw so few cars without big dents in them. Not just according to the driver, it's the law at intersections. How did he survive in France without knowing that? -- Martin I have always thought that in counties where they drive (unnaturally) on the right hand side of the road they should have a give way to the left rule. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priority_to_the_right quote: Priority to the right is a right-of-way system, in which a driver of a vehicle shall give way to vehicles approaching from the right at intersections. The system is stipulated in Article 18.4.a of the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic for countries where traffic keeps to the right and applies to all intersections where it is not overridden by priority signs (uncontrolled intersections), including side roads and roundabouts (but not paths or earth-tracks). /quote You can see the official wording he www.unece.org/trans/conventn/crt1968e.pdf (page 18) quote: In States where traffic keeps to the right the driver of a vehicle shall give way, at intersections other than those specified in paragraph 2 of this Article and in Article 25, paragraphs 2 and 4 of this Convention, to vehicles approaching from his right; /quote Just because it is the law it doesn't make it sensible. Take the round-abouts in Europe. They all have to have a give way to the people on the round-about otherwise they fill up and cause a traffic jam. I hope you aren't implying that isn't sensible. Roundabouts work very well when entering traffic yields to traffic in the circle already. They work very badly under every other crazy scheme I've seen tried (primarily in the US - I don't know why we can't get the simple idea of how a roundabout is supposed to work through our heads. |
#54
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Driving in France
"Martin" wrote in message ... On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 21:26:42 +0800, "Gerrit" wrote: Take the round-abouts in Europe. They all have to have a give way to the people on the round-about otherwise they fill up and cause a traffic jam. Can you remember the first attempt to make roundabouts in The Netherlands? -- Martin By that time I was living in Australia (I think) or else I was too young to understand what the news was about. My parents took me to Oz in 1952. Gerrit - Oz |
#55
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Driving in France
On 12.11.11 03:20, Gerrit wrote:
"Martin" wrote in message ... On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 21:26:42 +0800, "Gerrit" wrote: Take the round-abouts in Europe. They all have to have a give way to the people on the round-about otherwise they fill up and cause a traffic jam. Can you remember the first attempt to make roundabouts in The Netherlands? By that time I was living in Australia (I think) or else I was too young to understand what the news was about. My parents took me to Oz in 1952. Gerrit - Oz You owe a lot to your parents.:-) AFAIR normal priority to the right rules applied, in 1966 traffic entering a roundabout had priority. |
#56
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Driving in France
On 11.11.11 18:45, Doug Anderson wrote:
writes: "Tom wrote in message ... On 11/07/2011 02:26 AM, Gerrit wrote: wrote in message ... On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 15:30:50 +0100, Tom wrote: On 11/01/2011 06:55 PM, Dave Smith wrote: On 31/10/2011 5:31 PM, James Silverton wrote: Parisian traffic circles have to be experienced! Other cities like London and Frankfurt are bad but don't compare with Paris. If you've ever seen someone step off the kerb near a rental agency and be wiped out, as I did, you'ld never rent in Paris. I went on a trip to Europe with my brothers and their wives. and our plan was to rent a car and end up in Paris. Having been in Paris before, I suggested that we drop the cars off at the airport and take public transport into the city. A SiL who had lived in France and been to Paris supported that suggestion. After we arrived downtown they understood and were glad they had agreed with me, I have been to the Arc de Triomphe several times and have never seen the traffic circle around it without at least one fender bender. One day while being taken to my hotel by taxi I pointed out to the driver that we had to go left because he was way over in the right hand lane. He knew that, but according to him, the vehicle on the right had the right of way, so if he went over to the right he could cut over to the left and everyone would have to let him in. That helped to explain why I saw so few cars without big dents in them. Not just according to the driver, it's the law at intersections. How did he survive in France without knowing that? -- Martin I have always thought that in counties where they drive (unnaturally) on the right hand side of the road they should have a give way to the left rule. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priority_to_the_right quote: Priority to the right is a right-of-way system, in which a driver of a vehicle shall give way to vehicles approaching from the right at intersections. The system is stipulated in Article 18.4.a of the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic for countries where traffic keeps to the right and applies to all intersections where it is not overridden by priority signs (uncontrolled intersections), including side roads and roundabouts (but not paths or earth-tracks). /quote You can see the official wording he www.unece.org/trans/conventn/crt1968e.pdf (page 18) quote: In States where traffic keeps to the right the driver of a vehicle shall give way, at intersections other than those specified in paragraph 2 of this Article and in Article 25, paragraphs 2 and 4 of this Convention, to vehicles approaching from his right; /quote Just because it is the law it doesn't make it sensible. Take the round-abouts in Europe. They all have to have a give way to the people on the round-about otherwise they fill up and cause a traffic jam. I hope you aren't implying that isn't sensible. Roundabouts work very well when entering traffic yields to traffic in the circle already. They work very badly under every other crazy scheme I've seen tried (primarily in the US - I don't know why we can't get the simple idea of how a roundabout is supposed to work through our heads. They don't work well when there is heavy traffic and a predominant entry point. Down stream traffic can't get into the roundabout. You find traffic lights at the access points of some UK roundabouts. |
#57
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Driving in France
On 11/11/2011 12:40 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
On 10/11/2011 1:29 PM, Tom P wrote: I have always thought that in counties where they drive (unnaturally) on the right hand side of the road they should have a give way to the left rule. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priority_to_the_right quote: Priority to the right is a right-of-way system, in which a driver of a vehicle shall give way to vehicles approaching from the right at intersections. The system is stipulated in Article 18.4.a of the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic for countries where traffic keeps to the right and applies to all intersections where it is not overridden by priority signs (uncontrolled intersections), including side roads and roundabouts (but not paths or earth-tracks). /quote You can see the official wording he www.unece.org/trans/conventn/crt1968e.pdf (page 18) quote: In States where traffic keeps to the right the driver of a vehicle shall give way, at intersections other than those specified in paragraph 2 of this Article and in Article 25, paragraphs 2 and 4 of this Convention, to vehicles approaching from his right; /quote I understand that part.... I think.... Where a car vehicles approach an uncontrolled intersection, the vehicle approaching from the right is given the right of way. That is not what I was referring to. The taxi in which I was a passenger was approaching the intersection from the north. He needed to make a left turn to go to the east. There were already a number of cars in the left lane and waiting for the oncoming traffic to clear a bit in order to make their left turns. My taxi driver swung over to the right, making me think he was going to make a right turn and I thought he was taking me for a more expensive ride. But his told me about this right of way story. Makes me wonder why there were left turn and right turn lane on the right and left respectively. ok.. don't tell me he jumped the queue in front of all the cars queued to turn left. That's not a traffic rule, that's taxi driver chutzpah. I see something like that frequently in the morning on the left hand lane turning to get on the highway. The light phase for the LH turnoff is very short and there's a big queue. Some people drive right past the turnoff, U-turn and then have an easy RH turn onto the highway. |
#58
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Driving in France
On 11/11/2011 12:55 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
On 10/11/2011 2:18 PM, Tom P wrote: If, as you say, this is law, I am left wondering why the have left turn lanes on the left and right turn lanes on the right. If this is the way they are supposed to drive in Paris, the left turn lane should be on the left. Possibly he pulled over into the entrance to a small side street. Or just assumed that everyone else would think he was driving out of a small side street. No. It was a major intersection. This was major intersection with a traffic light. There were cars in the left lane waiting to make a left and cars in the other two lanes were going straight through..... untl they got held up as my taxi driver cut across their lanes in order to pull around the cars waiting to turn left. Basically, he was passing on the right to make a left turn, cutting in front of those who appeared to be following the rules of the road, and screwing up traffic flow in the proces. like I say ... taxi driver. Between all the parked cars it's hard to see the side streets. In any case he's been driving in Paris longer than you or I have. Back in the 70's it was normal to drive round Paris at night without any lights at all. Drivers would just flash their headlights at intersections. And of course only stupid foreigners would think of leaving the car in gear or setting the parking brake. As I said, it helps to explain why all the cars in Paris are banged up. |
#59
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Driving in France
On 11/11/2011 02:26 PM, Gerrit wrote:
"Tom P" wrote in message ... On 11/07/2011 02:26 AM, Gerrit wrote: "Martin" wrote in message ... On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 15:30:50 +0100, Tom P wrote: On 11/01/2011 06:55 PM, Dave Smith wrote: On 31/10/2011 5:31 PM, James Silverton wrote: Parisian traffic circles have to be experienced! Other cities like London and Frankfurt are bad but don't compare with Paris. If you've ever seen someone step off the kerb near a rental agency and be wiped out, as I did, you'ld never rent in Paris. I went on a trip to Europe with my brothers and their wives. and our plan was to rent a car and end up in Paris. Having been in Paris before, I suggested that we drop the cars off at the airport and take public transport into the city. A SiL who had lived in France and been to Paris supported that suggestion. After we arrived downtown they understood and were glad they had agreed with me, I have been to the Arc de Triomphe several times and have never seen the traffic circle around it without at least one fender bender. One day while being taken to my hotel by taxi I pointed out to the driver that we had to go left because he was way over in the right hand lane. He knew that, but according to him, the vehicle on the right had the right of way, so if he went over to the right he could cut over to the left and everyone would have to let him in. That helped to explain why I saw so few cars without big dents in them. Not just according to the driver, it's the law at intersections. How did he survive in France without knowing that? -- Martin I have always thought that in counties where they drive (unnaturally) on the right hand side of the road they should have a give way to the left rule. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priority_to_the_right quote: Priority to the right is a right-of-way system, in which a driver of a vehicle shall give way to vehicles approaching from the right at intersections. The system is stipulated in Article 18.4.a of the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic for countries where traffic keeps to the right and applies to all intersections where it is not overridden by priority signs (uncontrolled intersections), including side roads and roundabouts (but not paths or earth-tracks). /quote You can see the official wording he www.unece.org/trans/conventn/crt1968e.pdf (page 18) quote: In States where traffic keeps to the right the driver of a vehicle shall give way, at intersections other than those specified in paragraph 2 of this Article and in Article 25, paragraphs 2 and 4 of this Convention, to vehicles approaching from his right; /quote Just because it is the law it doesn't make it sensible. Take the round-abouts in Europe. They all have to have a give way to the people on the round-about otherwise they fill up and cause a traffic jam. Well they've started to build a lot more roundabouts in Germany, but they all have give way signs. What I don't like is that German drivers, once they are on the roundabout don't give any signals to indicate when they are exiting. |
#60
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Driving in France
On 11/02/2011 01:59 AM, David Hatunen wrote:
On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 16:48:42 -0700, Irwell wrote: On Tue, 1 Nov 2011 22:22:28 +0000 (UTC), David Hatunen wrote: The main boulevards of Paris were created in the mid-19th century by Baron Haussmann. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haussma...ation_of_Paris So the Army could fire their cannon balls down them. Or, more likely, grapeshot. Whatever they needed to keep the rabble under control. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Commune |
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