Electronics Shopping

Markku Grönroos wrote:
"Miguel Cruz" wrote:
My experience is pretty similar. In Asia I can find cables, connectors,
USB doo-dads, and the like in far greater variety and lower cost than in
the US or especially Europe. Basically, little things, and things where
you

Well, chinamen assemble those things 12 hours and by 20 renmimbis a day. If
a worker demonstrated about lousy salary or working conditions he would be
shot to death, his house demolished and his family dispersed. That's why you
get your USB connectors so economically. "Globalization" seems to mean the
repositioning of production lines into those countries where the authority
and employers can enslave workers.

Seems fairly irrelevant to me, unless you mean to suggest that they are also
manufacturing USB hubs and the like in Finland, which seems highly unlikely.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos from 36 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Queens Day in Amsterdam; the Grand Canyon; Amman, Jordan

In article WUKLe.19844$vj.14257@pd7tw1no, michael says...

Well, chinamen assemble those things 12 hours and by 20 renmimbis a day.
If
a worker demonstrated about lousy salary or working conditions he would be
shot to death, his house demolished and his family dispersed. That's why
you
get your USB connectors so economically. "Globalization" seems to mean the
repositioning of production lines into those countries where the authority
and employers can enslave workers.

is that your "considered" opinion? whatever it is, it sure is deep... how
many generations back do you have to go to find finns in the same posture of
enslavement? and just for your information, "chinamen", in english, is
considered somewhat racist, and i know you don't want to give that
impression in this heartfelt plea for the fate of chinese workers...

Unfortunately what Markku writes is to a certain extent accurate.
Working conditions in Chinese factories are below the minimum acceptable
levels of safety in a developed country. Things are cheap because
workers in developing countries get very low salaries and (sometimes)
work in hazardous conditions.
--

Alfred Molon

http://www.molon.de/Galleries.htm - Photos from China, Myanmar, Brunei,
Malaysia, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Nepal, Egypt, Germany, Austria,
Prague, Budapest, Singapore and Portugal

"Miguel Cruz" kirjoitti
...
Markku Grönroos wrote:
"Miguel Cruz" wrote:
My experience is pretty similar. In Asia I can find cables, connectors,
USB doo-dads, and the like in far greater variety and lower cost than in
the US or especially Europe. Basically, little things, and things where
you

Well, chinamen assemble those things 12 hours and by 20 renmimbis a day.
If
a worker demonstrated about lousy salary or working conditions he would
be
shot to death, his house demolished and his family dispersed. That's why
you
get your USB connectors so economically. "Globalization" seems to mean
the
repositioning of production lines into those countries where the
authority
and employers can enslave workers.

Seems fairly irrelevant to me, unless you mean to suggest that they are
also
manufacturing USB hubs and the like in Finland, which seems highly
unlikely.

I just told one of the reasons why Asian made gear is so cheap at the local
market: very low labour costs. In smaller scale so it goes in Europe too.
For instance the Czech's Republic is a mighty car producer today. They hire
a dozen or so employees there by the same costs they hire one or two in
Germany.

"Spehro Pefhany" kirjoitti
om...
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 18:58:07 +0300, the renowned "Markku Grönroos"
wrote:


"Miguel Cruz" kirjoitti
...

My experience is pretty similar. In Asia I can find cables, connectors,
USB
doo-dads, and the like in far greater variety and lower cost than in the
US
or especially Europe. Basically, little things, and things where you

Well, chinamen assemble those things 12 hours and by 20 renmimbis a day.
If
^^^^^^^^
Your above term is usually considered offensive, even if capitalized.

What do you Hindi speaking kike from frozen tundras care about it?
Nokidding.

Funny, the workers really seem to flock to the opportunity to work in
the far better conditions in factories (and for more money than their
other options).

And this is nohow in contradiction what I have said earlier.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 18:58:07 +0300, the renowned "Markku Grönroos"
wrote:


"Miguel Cruz" kirjoitti
...

My experience is pretty similar. In Asia I can find cables, connectors,
USB
doo-dads, and the like in far greater variety and lower cost than in the
US
or especially Europe. Basically, little things, and things where you

Well, chinamen assemble those things 12 hours and by 20 renmimbis a day. If
^^^^^^^^
Your above term is usually considered offensive, even if capitalized.

a worker demonstrated about lousy salary or working conditions he would be
shot to death, his house demolished and his family dispersed. That's why you
get your USB connectors so economically. "Globalization" seems to mean the
repositioning of production lines into those countries where the authority
and employers can enslave workers.

Funny, the workers really seem to flock to the opportunity to work in
the far better conditions in factories (and for more money than their
other options).

You'd rather they do back-breaking work in the fields or underground
in the coal mines, which have casualty figures not see in the US since
the early 1900s?


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

"Alfred Molon" wrote in message
...

Unfortunately what Markku writes is to a certain extent accurate.
Working conditions in Chinese factories are below the minimum acceptable
levels of safety in a developed country. Things are cheap because
workers in developing countries get very low salaries and (sometimes)
work in hazardous conditions.

and while it undoubtedly is to a certain extent accurate, it is also to a
very great extent irrelevant... the burgeoning middle class in china is
fattening itself off the backs of the workers... this is called
capitalism... anyone living in a developed economy that thinks this DIDN'T
happen on the way to their contemporary workers paradises is as big a fool
as little markku...

so-called "globalisation" has been the way of the planet for 500 years, and
a very good way it has been... anyone who thinks that starving to death as
an illiterate peasant is preferable to being a "slave" in a chinese factory
is welcome to move to a rural backwater in any underdeveloped country and
put their money where their mouth is...

i can afford my two doppios a day to keep me moving at work only because the
barristas at starbucks earn less than 1/4 what i do (and i'm not even
middle-class here in the great white north)... so sue me...

the chinese had a somewhat repressive system going long before they jumped
on the capitalist bandwagon... i'd challenge any anti-globalisation
mouthpiece to name a time in chinese history when it would be better to be
at or near the bottom of the barrel in the middle kingdom... problem is of
course, anti-globalisation types tend to have the historical awareness of
amoeba...

michael

"michael" kirjoitti
viestissä:38MLe.216112$5V4.9670@pd7tw3no...


and while it undoubtedly is to a certain extent accurate, it is also to a
very great extent irrelevant... the burgeoning middle class in china is

No it isn't irrelevant at all. Probably the greatest single reason for low
retail prices of the locally manufactured USB connectors in Asia is the very
low labour costs: a couple of bananas and a few lashes a day.

fattening itself off the backs of the workers... this is called
capitalism... anyone living in a developed economy that thinks this DIDN'T
happen on the way to their contemporary workers paradises is as big a fool
as little markku...

I would call these lines above about irrelevant. And I am not little (but
the initial letter of my name).

so-called "globalisation" has been the way of the planet for 500 years,
and
a very good way it has been... anyone who thinks that starving to death as

Why not 400 or 600 years.

an illiterate peasant is preferable to being a "slave" in a chinese
factory
is welcome to move to a rural backwater in any underdeveloped country and
put their money where their mouth is...

The working conditions are typically horrendous as I said earlier.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 21:08:49 +0300, the renowned "Markku Grönroos"
wrote:


"Spehro Pefhany" kirjoitti
viestissä:6vsuf15d0ofoeqe9hrevh08u3vj2b2enjv@4ax. com...
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 18:58:07 +0300, the renowned "Markku Grönroos"
wrote:


"Miguel Cruz" kirjoitti
...

My experience is pretty similar. In Asia I can find cables, connectors,
USB
doo-dads, and the like in far greater variety and lower cost than in the
US
or especially Europe. Basically, little things, and things where you

Well, chinamen assemble those things 12 hours and by 20 renmimbis a day.
If
^^^^^^^^
Your above term is usually considered offensive, even if capitalized.

What do you Hindi speaking kike from frozen tundras care about it?
Nokidding.

Wrong on all three counts, knucklehead space-dropper.

Funny, the workers really seem to flock to the opportunity to work in
the far better conditions in factories (and for more money than their
other options).

And this is nohow in contradiction what I have said earlier.

I've been in a bunch of Chinese factories, and the conditions are not
so bad, particularly the ones making goods for export. You can't make
huge quantities of export-quality goods in a mud hut. In fact, I've
seen worse in Taiwan less than a generation ago. New machinery has
guards on it because they're buying it from Germany, Japan and the US.
Trade is what will bring them up in wealth, over time, at the expense
of their theoretical egalitarian society. That's why oil is starting
to get a bit expensive, finally there is some competition on the
consumption side, instead of just from Europeans who have deliberately
chosen to tax themselves into poverty energy-wise.

Globalization is not a pancea, but it's helping a lot of ordinary
people (especially Asians) and making others rich. Also, I don't have
that much respect for those of the anti-Globalization types who prefer
to bow down to their confrontational and corrupt union bosses over
productive corporate bosses.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

"Spehro Pefhany" kirjoitti
om...
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 21:08:49 +0300, the renowned "Markku Grönroos"

Funny, the workers really seem to flock to the opportunity to work in
the far better conditions in factories (and for more money than their
other options).

And this is nohow in contradiction what I have said earlier.

I've been in a bunch of Chinese factories, and the conditions are not
so bad, particularly the ones making goods for export. You can't make

So machinery is treated good and humans not necessarily so.


huge quantities of export-quality goods in a mud hut. In fact, I've

This is true naturally.

seen worse in Taiwan less than a generation ago. New machinery has
guards on it because they're buying it from Germany, Japan and the US.
Trade is what will bring them up in wealth, over time, at the expense
of their theoretical egalitarian society. That's why oil is starting

Hopefully so. Don't put all your money on that horse though.

to get a bit expensive, finally there is some competition on the
consumption side, instead of just from Europeans who have deliberately
chosen to tax themselves into poverty energy-wise.

Gasoline is excessively taxed in Europe. However, if I was a Canadian
household, I wouldn't make too much noise on European taxation.

"Markku Grönroos" wrote in message
...

"Spehro Pefhany" kirjoitti
om...
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 21:08:49 +0300, the renowned "Markku Grönroos"

Funny, the workers really seem to flock to the opportunity to work in
the far better conditions in factories (and for more money than their
other options).

And this is nohow in contradiction what I have said earlier.

I've been in a bunch of Chinese factories, and the conditions are not
so bad, particularly the ones making goods for export. You can't make

So machinery is treated good and humans not necessarily so.


huge quantities of export-quality goods in a mud hut. In fact, I've

This is true naturally.

seen worse in Taiwan less than a generation ago. New machinery has
guards on it because they're buying it from Germany, Japan and the US.
Trade is what will bring them up in wealth, over time, at the expense
of their theoretical egalitarian society. That's why oil is starting

Hopefully so. Don't put all your money on that horse though.

to get a bit expensive, finally there is some competition on the
consumption side, instead of just from Europeans who have deliberately
chosen to tax themselves into poverty energy-wise.

Gasoline is excessively taxed in Europe. However, if I was a Canadian
household, I wouldn't make too much noise on European taxation.

what in the world gives you the idea that canadian "households" (?) are
heavily taxed in comparison to europeans?

i hope you're not thinking of the notorious gst and pst that add 14% or so
to the advertised cost at the till, leaving the product still 15-40% cheaper
than it would be in europe (due to hidden rather than upfront taxation?)...

our taxes are so low that we can't seem to stem the tide of homelessness, a
clear sign that they are too low...

michael