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#21
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Reporting a fraud in Shanghai
BimmerBoy wrote: Thanks for a very honest post. I think people who travel around the world are at least middle class by NA standards so they don't see and understand things that you saw, and are often, relatively, I grew up very sheltered and didn't know anything about life until I was maybe 15... this is mainly due to complete isolation from my peers. I knew of things only as I saw them at school, and since I was unpopular, I never got to know many of the other kids. When I did get to know about life, I got to know it all at once. Where I used to live in work was this bad neighbourhood, ironically, the same place I went to junior high school. The elementary school was on the good side of the tracks, the junior high was not. There are streets in this city that divided rich from poor. I didn't actively live on the streets, but some of my friends did. People I went to highschool with grew up and lived the rest of their lives (to date) being dirt poor. Because of my sheltered upbringing and complete distrust of everyone, I cannot see myself being in a country and having my "heart melt" (as another poster discribed) at something that strikes me as an obvious threat. I also do not like children (generally speaking), so that might change my perspective. I will state for the record, according to Canadian standards, my partner and I have an above middle-class income, but we've never grown out of our cheap penny-pinching ways. I earn more per year than my mother, and have a house that's comparable in value. My mother doesn't work much, but gets paid more when she does, but overall, we earn the same. You'd never know it... people would think I'm on welfare, and they'd think she's a rich heiress with a trust account. I think that's also made a difference in our chosen destinations. My mom vyes vacations in Singapore and Hong Kong for shopping, and spending time in Paris and other parts of Europe. My dream vacations include Greenland, Scandanavia, Antarctica (laugh if you want, I can dream), and in the real future, Siberia on the Trans-Siberian Railway. We have the money to go first class and be safe, and we can afford a safe (yet expensive) hotel, in a place where others go and don't spend much for the same vacation. psychologically disarmed. In parts of Europe (e.g. Bratislava) things can be really really bad. It's just from 2nd degree personal experience Bratislava was a joke on a movie I saw last night (Euro Trip)... but thanks for using it as a reference. It puts things in perspective. when someone in a tour group (went with parents) a few years ago got pickpocketed and lost like $700 US cash and kept complaining about this. Now what the hell would you be carrying $700 US in cash anyway in your wallet for in East Europe? Well, from my life's experence, I never carried only one wallet... in fact, I never carried any wallet. My papers and money were always well concealed into something that could not be removed from me all that easily. (A belt under my sweater or something like that). And that's just for travelling the US, which I've done so with some of the lower classes of travellers (Greyhound). It's easier to deal with losing one credit card than all of them, that's why I don't like wallets. I don't know what things cost in East Europe... I couldn't say if that sounded reasonable. I've never been anywhere yet that I couldn't use plastic, and I do know in some countries credit card numbers will be stolen. I also doubt if your looks would blend you in in Eastern Europe unless you grew up there for a substantial period of time. At least not to locals. And esp not wrt pickpockets! Whenever I speak, it would be readily obvious... I know clothing is often a dead give away, but I tend to dress in non-brand, non-descript stuff. I travel with even more plain wardrobe, and it's very much in my personality to shop for a whole new set of duds while travelling because I like wearing that stuff around my own town (because it's different than the trends). Locals of any country even if you're from the same racial or ethnic group have a way of identifying a travelling foreigner with such ease with such finesse that you think they've undergone Olympic training or something. And even if you speak the language without an accent - and even if your mannerisms blend in etc, you are probably a target of criminals and pickpockets - at least higher risk than another guy or gal from the native local population by how you dress, how you walk the walk, how you talk the talk wrt slang etc. There's probably little escape. True enough, but I guess it depends on the situation. The situation I described with the kids throwing rocks at the car... Well if they are blockading your passage and tossing rocks at you, I can't see any other solution but to do what my partner said, just toss the coins and watch them scatter. Even one coin would probably get them all running to see "who gets to keep it". That being said, I might bring pennies with me just for that occasion (or get some in their local currency, at least they can spend them...) That tree hugging scam really freaked me out, and my partner warned me I'd have to react fast to avoid being in the situation of having a child glued to my leg making me uncomfortable and causing a scene, or paying them to go away. It's kind of easy to think about what you would do when you're not doing it or faced with the situation... Well, I've been faced with a few, and all I can say, I'm not a very good victim. I can stay calm even when other people are or would be freaking out. I figure that during robberies and other violent crime, they expect a freaking out reaction, and I'm just not going to give someone the satisfaction. Plenty of time to freak out later, in my mind, it's do or die. S. |
#22
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Reporting a fraud in Shanghai
Alfred Molon wrote: across China, but I have never been pickpocketed in China. My personal experience is that the Chinese are very honest people, except for this hotel staff in Shanghai. This may be so, that they are generally honest people... maybe more so with each other. But I do know there are a lot of people in other countries who do not like North Americans, and will try to cheat or take advantage of us (since this includes me geographically), because they can. Some salon in Europe was trying to cheat my mom on the price of a hair treatment... I don't know what she wanted, but it started at 20 euro, and somehow they kept increasing the price until they freaked out on her. She figured it's because she's North American (not sure if being from Canada helps, but it might in some places), and there are stereotypes in other places that North Americans will pay anything. I can't speak for the US, but since I work in retail, all I can say is you'd be surprised who's willing to throw their money away on useless crap (usually people who can't afford to), and who bickers about how outrageous the price is. I get the outrageous argument, although I peddle with orders from the powers above. It's not like I have any say in the matter. I often buy things mail order from the US, and even after outrageous customs and duties it's still cheaper than buying it in Canada. As for your question, which I know you wanted an answer to before this thread took a life of it's own... I don't now, since I'm only going to China next year (Beijing and Hong Kong). I'll get to experience it myself, but I'm surprisingly more relaxed about going there (a country where I will not be able to read very many characters and speak very little), than Russia, where I can actually read all the basic and important signs. S. |
#23
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Reporting a fraud in Shanghai
Sapphyre wrote: BimmerBoy wrote: Thanks for a very honest post. I think people who travel around the world are at least middle class by NA standards so they don't see and understand things that you saw, and are often, relatively, I grew up very sheltered and didn't know anything about life until I was maybe 15... this is mainly due to complete isolation from my peers. I knew of things only as I saw them at school, and since I was unpopular, I never got to know many of the other kids. When I did get to know about life, I got to know it all at once. Where I used to live in work was this bad neighbourhood, ironically, the same place I went to junior high school. The elementary school was on the good side of the tracks, the junior high was not. There are streets in this city that divided rich from poor. I didn't actively live on the streets, but some of my friends did. People I went to highschool with grew up and lived the rest of their lives (to date) being dirt poor. Because of my sheltered upbringing and complete distrust of everyone, I cannot see myself being in a country and having my "heart melt" (as another poster discribed) at something that strikes me as an obvious threat. I also do not like children (generally speaking), so that might change my perspective. I will state for the record, according to Canadian standards, my partner and I have an above middle-class income, but we've never grown out of our cheap penny-pinching ways. I earn more per year than my mother, and have a house that's comparable in value. My mother doesn't work much, but gets paid more when she does, but overall, we earn the same. You'd never know it... people would think I'm on welfare, and they'd think she's a rich heiress with a trust account. I think that's also made a difference in our chosen destinations. My mom vyes vacations in Singapore and Hong Kong for shopping, and spending time in Paris and other parts of Europe. My dream vacations include Greenland, Scandanavia, Antarctica (laugh if you want, I can dream), and in the real future, Siberia on the Trans-Siberian Railway. We have the money to go first class and be safe, and we can afford a safe (yet expensive) hotel, in a place where others go and don't spend much for the same vacation. psychologically disarmed. In parts of Europe (e.g. Bratislava) things can be really really bad. It's just from 2nd degree personal experience Bratislava was a joke on a movie I saw last night (Euro Trip)... but thanks for using it as a reference. It puts things in perspective. when someone in a tour group (went with parents) a few years ago got pickpocketed and lost like $700 US cash and kept complaining about this. Now what the hell would you be carrying $700 US in cash anyway in your wallet for in East Europe? Well, from my life's experence, I never carried only one wallet... in fact, I never carried any wallet. My papers and money were always well concealed into something that could not be removed from me all that easily. (A belt under my sweater or something like that). And that's just for travelling the US, which I've done so with some of the lower classes of travellers (Greyhound). It's easier to deal with losing one credit card than all of them, that's why I don't like wallets. I don't know what things cost in East Europe... I couldn't say if that sounded reasonable. I've never been anywhere yet that I couldn't use plastic, and I do know in some countries credit card numbers will be stolen. I also doubt if your looks would blend you in in Eastern Europe unless you grew up there for a substantial period of time. At least not to locals. And esp not wrt pickpockets! Whenever I speak, it would be readily obvious... I know clothing is often a dead give away, but I tend to dress in non-brand, non-descript stuff. I travel with even more plain wardrobe, and it's very much in my personality to shop for a whole new set of duds while travelling because I like wearing that stuff around my own town (because it's different than the trends). Locals of any country even if you're from the same racial or ethnic group have a way of identifying a travelling foreigner with such ease with such finesse that you think they've undergone Olympic training or something. And even if you speak the language without an accent - and even if your mannerisms blend in etc, you are probably a target of criminals and pickpockets - at least higher risk than another guy or gal from the native local population by how you dress, how you walk the walk, how you talk the talk wrt slang etc. There's probably little escape. True enough, but I guess it depends on the situation. The situation I described with the kids throwing rocks at the car... Well if they are blockading your passage and tossing rocks at you, I can't see any other solution but to do what my partner said, just toss the coins and watch them scatter. Even one coin would probably get them all running to see "who gets to keep it". That being said, I might bring pennies with me just for that occasion (or get some in their local currency, at least they can spend them...) That tree hugging scam really freaked me out, and my partner warned me I'd have to react fast to avoid being in the situation of having a child glued to my leg making me uncomfortable and causing a scene, or paying them to go away. It's kind of easy to think about what you would do when you're not doing it or faced with the situation... Well, I've been faced with a few, and all I can say, I'm not a very good victim. I can stay calm even when other people are or would be freaking out. I figure that during robberies and other violent crime, they expect a freaking out reaction, and I'm just not going to give someone the satisfaction. Plenty of time to freak out later, in my mind, it's do or die. Boy!! talking about someone having a victim mentality. I don't know where you grew up, but the world is not that bad. You know that there is safety in number. You can always do things with your partner together. China was and still is a land of fraud and deception, but you are safe traveling around in China. They cheat in small amounts in dealings, but they will not kill you or rob you. S. |
#24
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Reporting a fraud in Shanghai
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#25
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Reporting a fraud in Shanghai
Sapphyre wrote:
BimmerBoy wrote: Thanks for a very honest post. I think people who travel around the world are at least middle class by NA standards so they don't see and understand things that you saw, and are often, relatively, I grew up very sheltered and didn't know anything about life until I was maybe 15... this is mainly due to complete isolation from my peers. I knew of things only as I saw them at school, and since I was unpopular, I never got to know many of the other kids. In other cases, university is always a mind-opening experience.... When I did get to know about life, I got to know it all at once. Where I used to live in work was this bad neighbourhood, ironically, the same place I went to junior high school. The elementary school was on the good side of the tracks, the junior high was not. There are streets in this city that divided rich from poor. I didn't actively live on the streets, but some of my friends did. People I went to highschool with grew up and lived the rest of their lives (to date) being dirt poor. Because of my sheltered upbringing and complete distrust of everyone, I cannot see myself being in a country and having my "heart melt" (as another poster discribed) at something that strikes me as an obvious threat. I also do not like children (generally speaking), so that might change my perspective. You're making me sound like a bleeding heart liberal on soc.culture.china, where people implicitly accuse of me of being 'heartless', being a 'rich kid'. So soc.culture.china (and not the infinitely more educated rec.travel.asia) wake up and listen up! There's another world out there that you guys can't even begin to imagine. I will state for the record, according to Canadian standards, my partner and I have an above middle-class income, but we've never grown out of our cheap penny-pinching ways. I earn more per year than my mother, and have a house that's comparable in value. My mother doesn't work much, but gets paid more when she does, but overall, we earn the same. You'd never know it... people would think I'm on welfare, and they'd think she's a rich heiress with a trust account. I think that's also made a difference in our chosen destinations. My mom vyes vacations in Singapore and Hong Kong for shopping, and spending time in Paris and other parts of Europe. My dream vacations include Greenland, Scandanavia, Antarctica (laugh if you want, I can dream), and in the real future, Siberia on the Trans-Siberian Railway. We have the money to go first class and be safe, and we can afford a safe (yet expensive) hotel, in a place where others go and don't spend much for the same vacation. Same with many mainland Chinese in their granddaddy mentality! Where do they want to visit? NYC! Chicago! London! Paris! Moscow! Why? They're not going there for themselves. No way! They're travelling in order to brush up their resume. It's just as bad as driving a Mercedes vs a real car, like a porsche or BMW with M package! The rest of us may want to 'discover that tiny little forgotten island in Thailand' etc, have that treasured sense of inner peace, perhaps relive that sense of Tao even, yet some are just so relentless in their quest for something, anything, that they didn't have and to claim that they've been there and therefore it's now theirs. Difference is ownership vs experience I think. psychologically disarmed. In parts of Europe (e.g. Bratislava) things can be really really bad. It's just from 2nd degree personal experience Bratislava was a joke on a movie I saw last night (Euro Trip)... but thanks for using it as a reference. It puts things in perspective. Never saw the movie but I can perhaps understand your point... when someone in a tour group (went with parents) a few years ago got pickpocketed and lost like $700 US cash and kept complaining about this. Now what the hell would you be carrying $700 US in cash anyway in your wallet for in East Europe? Well, from my life's experence, I never carried only one wallet... in fact, I never carried any wallet. My papers and money were always well concealed into something that could not be removed from me all that easily. (A belt under my sweater or something like that). And that's just for travelling the US, which I've done so with some of the lower classes of travellers (Greyhound). It's easier to deal with losing one credit card than all of them, that's why I don't like wallets. I don't know what things cost in East Europe... I couldn't say if that sounded reasonable. I've never been anywhere yet that I couldn't use plastic, and I do know in some countries credit card numbers will be stolen. What do you mean you've never been anywhere. No offense but you seem to be thinking like 1980s 3rd world Chinese!! Carrying multiple wallets? Kinda like afraid of being kidnapped? It's like locking yourself in in your house or car so you won't be kidnapped! Like gated communities to be fair - are you locking people out or are you locking yourself in? I also doubt if your looks would blend you in in Eastern Europe unless you grew up there for a substantial period of time. At least not to locals. And esp not wrt pickpockets! Whenever I speak, it would be readily obvious... I know clothing is often a dead give away, but I tend to dress in non-brand, non-descript stuff. I travel with even more plain wardrobe, and it's very much in my personality to shop for a whole new set of duds while travelling because I like wearing that stuff around my own town (because it's different than the trends). Only the rich can afford to look poor. I go out in shorts and flip-flops. Obscene enough for the 'club casual' crowd? Baha! Beat that! (Or maybe I'm already poisoned) Locals of any country even if you're from the same racial or ethnic group have a way of identifying a travelling foreigner with such ease with such finesse that you think they've undergone Olympic training or something. And even if you speak the language without an accent - and even if your mannerisms blend in etc, you are probably a target of criminals and pickpockets - at least higher risk than another guy or gal from the native local population by how you dress, how you walk the walk, how you talk the talk wrt slang etc. There's probably little escape. True enough, but I guess it depends on the situation. The situation I described with the kids throwing rocks at the car... Well if they are blockading your passage and tossing rocks at you, I can't see any other solution but to do what my partner said, just toss the coins and watch them scatter. Even one coin would probably get them all running to see "who gets to keep it". That being said, I might bring pennies with me just for that occasion (or get some in their local currency, at least they can spend them...) That tree hugging scam really freaked me out, and my partner warned me I'd have to react fast to avoid being in the situation of having a child glued to my leg making me uncomfortable and causing a scene, or paying them to go away. Though it is way more than possible that the more you throw them the more kids will hug around you. Positive feedback. It's true, sometimes you maybe saving yourself if you're tough. It's kind of easy to think about what you would do when you're not doing it or faced with the situation... Well, I've been faced with a few, and all I can say, I'm not a very good victim. I can stay calm even when other people are or would be freaking out. I figure that during robberies and other violent crime, they expect a freaking out reaction, and I'm just not going to give someone the satisfaction. Plenty of time to freak out later, in my mind, it's do or die. S. You're more respectable and you're a better person your way. |
#26
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Reporting a fraud in Shanghai
Alfred Molon wrote: In article . com, RichAsianKid says... Not when compared to Brno or Prague, or Budapest, or Vienna, which are all very close by. And you have to agree that Bratislava is way cheaper (beer, for instance) than the other cities, It is not way cheaper, at least not the hotels or restaurants. When have you been there the last time? Not true, in hotels they elevate themselves to international standards so it's way more expensive in hotels...economic standards are prob so uneven anyway.... yeah that's a few years ago, so maybe things have changed since. -- Alfred Molon http://www.molon.de - Photos of Asia, Africa and Europe |
#27
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Reporting a fraud in Shanghai
In article . com,
RichAsianKid says... Not when compared to Brno or Prague, or Budapest, or Vienna, which are all very close by. And you have to agree that Bratislava is way cheaper (beer, for instance) than the other cities, It is not way cheaper, at least not the hotels or restaurants. When have you been there the last time? -- Alfred Molon http://www.molon.de - Photos of Asia, Africa and Europe |
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