English language-Airlines

When, say, Iberia flys a totally within Spain flight do the pilot and tower
people speak English ot Spanish to each other?

Gary 'Gatsby' Nichols

Should be English everywhere I believe but some places 'let it slip'
sometimes.

I remember listening to the tower at AMS a few years ago and one of the KLM
pilots on approach started to talk in Dutch, he was kindly reminded by ATC
to speak in English.

Col.

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In the case of Iberia, Spanish. Same in France with Air France, French.
However, I believe KLM always speak English, even at Schipol.

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Quoting "Graham Harrison" regarding
English language-Airlines in a message dated Sat, 29 Nov 2003 12:07:48
+0000 (UTC):

In the case of Iberia, Spanish. Same in France with Air France, French.
However, I believe KLM always speak English, even at Schipol.

Would there not be native language controlers on different frequencies
for the given station (eg. Spanish "TRACON" controler or Spanish "Tower"
controler as well as the std. English operators on each)? The pilot could then
elect which to choose (I would assume as part of the original flight plan). I
can envision several Asian countries doing this as well (Japan, China etc.).


__________________________________

Regards,
Arnold.

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Remove all asterisks and the *hates*spam* to get true address.)

"mag3" wrote in message
...
Quoting "Graham Harrison"
regarding
English language-Airlines in a message dated Sat, 29 Nov 2003 12:07:48
+0000 (UTC):

In the case of Iberia, Spanish. Same in France with Air France, French.
However, I believe KLM always speak English, even at Schipol.

Would there not be native language controlers on different frequencies
for the given station (eg. Spanish "TRACON" controler or Spanish "Tower"
controler as well as the std. English operators on each)? The pilot could
then
elect which to choose (I would assume as part of the original flight
plan). I
can envision several Asian countries doing this as well (Japan, China
etc.).

From what I hear, "situational awareness" is VERY important to pilots. It
is considered important to know what the other traffic you are contending
with is doing. Controllers DO make mistakes and pilots want to be able to
complain or react.

For this reason, many pilots consider it a DANGEROUS practice to air traffic
control to use other than English when speaking to non-English pilots.
Having separate frequencies and controllers for different languages would be
far, far, far worse.

About 55 years ago English was adopted as the standard language for
aviation, that includes air traffic control. Yes, that standard is violated
in some countries. Also all important passenger announcement must be given
in English in addition to any other language. I've been on French charters
from Paris where I suspected I was the only native-English-speaker and all
important announcements were given in English as well as French.

Nope, all on one frequency. It's a perennial complaint amongst pilots that
locals speak to one another in their native tongue. It's surprising how
much situational awareness can be generated from knowing what other people
are saying. If it's all in the same language then obviously everyone
benefits but even if different languages are used there are some clues in
the reporting points being announced over the air.

There is also a perennial suspicion that local pilots get preference over
non-local pilots and that using the local language helps to hide this
"bias".

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Quoting "R J Carpenter" regarding English
language-Airlines in a message dated Sat, 29 Nov 2003 10:30:27 -0500:

From what I hear, "situational awareness" is VERY important to pilots. It
is considered important to know what the other traffic you are contending
with is doing. Controllers DO make mistakes and pilots want to be able to
complain or react.

For this reason, many pilots consider it a DANGEROUS practice to air traffic
control to use other than English when speaking to non-English pilots.

About 55 years ago English was adopted as the standard language for
aviation, that includes air traffic control.

I was aware of this but had thought of the "just in case" scenario. I've heard
pilots from various world airlines talk on ATC. Most are very proficient in
English. I even recall the exchanges between the late Cpt. John Testrake of
TWA Flight 847 and the Beruit Tower controller. But some often struggle
maintaining the high "cadence" standard set primarily by US pilots and
controllers. It follows therefore that some non-native English speaking
controllers might have the same difficulty, the "native language" frequencies
making it easier for both affected pilots and controllers alike.

Yes, that standard is violated
in some countries.

I think English was adapted because of the historical American "roots" and
initial growth of the organized air travel industry. By all modern population
& language standards, it should be Spanish as it is the #3 language spoken
worldwide by "population" and #1 worldwide by "geographic distribution."
English is 4th by population (#2 by population is Hindi, and #1 is Mandarin
Chinese).

Also all important passenger announcement must be given
in English in addition to any other language. I've been on French charters
from Paris where I suspected I was the only native-English-speaker and all
important announcements were given in English as well as French.

I wonder if that has anything to do with the country or the airline maintaining
an FAA "Category 1" rating so as to have USA privileges. I'll have to try some
native foreign airlines that don't travel to the USA or have a US presence.




__________________________________

Regards,
Arnold.

(E-mail address altered, to prevent spamming. :-|
Remove all asterisks and the *hates*spam* to get true address.)

"mag3" schreef in bericht
...
I wonder if that has anything to do with the country or the airline
maintaining
an FAA "Category 1" rating so as to have USA privileges. I'll have to try
some
native foreign airlines that don't travel to the USA or have a US
presence.


MIAT Mongolian Airlines, Vietnam Airlines, Bangkok Airways, Myanmar
Airlines, Transavia, Easyjet, Merpati, Pluna, Air Berlin, are some of the
airlines that don't fly to the US and that I have flown, and announcements
in English were made on all of them. (although the announcements in English
on Easyjet were hard to understand)

Sjoerd

"Sjoerd" wrote in message
...

"mag3" schreef in bericht
...
I wonder if that has anything to do with the country or the airline
maintaining
an FAA "Category 1" rating so as to have USA privileges. I'll have to
try
some
native foreign airlines that don't travel to the USA or have a US
presence.


MIAT Mongolian Airlines, Vietnam Airlines, Bangkok Airways, Myanmar
Airlines, Transavia, Easyjet, Merpati, Pluna, Air Berlin, are some of the
airlines that don't fly to the US and that I have flown, and announcements
in English were made on all of them. (although the announcements in
English
on Easyjet were hard to understand)

Sjoerd

Did you by any chance fly EZY into or out of Liverpool? Or were you perhaps
trying to understand Native Geordie?

JohnT

"Graham Harrison" wrote in
message ...
Nope, all on one frequency. It's a perennial complaint amongst pilots
that
locals speak to one another in their native tongue. It's surprising how
much situational awareness can be generated from knowing what other people
are saying. If it's all in the same language then obviously everyone
benefits but even if different languages are used there are some clues in
the reporting points being announced over the air.

There is also a perennial suspicion that local pilots get preference over
non-local pilots and that using the local language helps to hide this
"bias".

I saw a documentary about this once. Apparently Air France issued an edict
that all pilots must talk to the tower in English. However the pilots
rebelled and AF had to reverse their decision.

Speaking French was blamed for a fatal crash at CDG when a plane was told in
English to taxi onto a runway ready for take off. He didn't know that this
was a mistake because there was already an aircraft taking off on that
runway (thick fog meant visibility was poor). If they were all talking
English then the pilot would have known that there was already a takeoff
underway and would have questioned the command from ATC.