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Baldwin dust-up sparks debate about electronics on planes



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 8th, 2011, 04:51 PM posted to rec.travel.air
Fly Guy
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Posts: 193
Default Baldwin dust-up sparks debate about electronics on planes

The airlines, particularly the recently self-declared bankrupt American
Airlines, don't need the negative publicity generated by their over
zealous employees as they hyper-enforce these ill-defined rules over the
use of electronic devices during particularly boring phases of departure
preparation.

This just further reinforces in the mind of the customer that this
product (air travel) is equivalent to sitting in a school bus under the
control of a 1950's era gym teacher.

=========
Adults do not like being treated like children.
=========

The crock in this story is that while Baldwin was being crucified and
evicted by the crew, others passengers in the vicinity were using their
own phones to text and tweet the enfolding story to the outside world.

There is just too much grief caused by the arbitrary nature of the
history of these rules and their enforcement.

The insanity is that the crew wouldn't bat an eye if Baldwin was
engrossed with pen and paper cross-word puzzle, but the electronic
version of same somehow crosses a line.

The exact nature of the "harm" or "risk" that these devices can cause
during different phases of boarding, taxi, takeoff and landing (most of
which can entail VERY LONG periods of stationary immobility, including
de-icing, etc) need to be either confirmed or debunked. If these
devices are even remotely the risk that some imagine, then their
outright presence in the cabin should be banned entirely - something
that would kill air travel as we know it.

If the argument is that these devices are a distraction for passengers
in the event of the need for emergency de-planement, then I would argue
so are infants/children, the elderly, newspapers books and magazines,
etc.

The fundamental disconnect here is the following - and pay attention to
this.

The average rational, knowledgable adult has an idea of what sort of
personal behavior is inherently risky or unsafe, or illegal (etc) and
knows the consequences thereof. Many such examples surrounding the
operation of a motor vehicle for example (being intoxicated or texting
while driving, exceeding the speed limit, etc).

We assess the "danger" or risks of using hand-held electronics while
seated on a plane as having no discernable risk to any eventuality. The
activity of using these devices is far below the threshold of what we
perceive to be the danger to our body or to those around us.

Yet we are confronted with authoritative figures (flight attendents) who
impose unreasonable restrictions on what we believe to be reasonable
behavior (playing an electronic game on a small hand-held device while
seated on a plane).

I submit that human beings, while seeking self gratification or
recreation that meets their own internalized rules for risk-tolerance
and social acceptance, are wired to be hostile to the imposition of the
denial of these activities. In terms of conflicting or high-stress
interpersonal human interactions, we should be engineering such
interactions out of our relationships and interactions instead of
re-enforcing them.

In other words, it was more "harmful" to those involved to engage in
this behavior (to deny gratification or recreation) than the benefit
that could ever be gained from the denial (and I leave the specification
of this benefit as an excercise to the reader).

From past psycological experiments, we know that those that are put in a
position of authority over others will follow rules and directives by
their superiors that defy rational understanding (the application of
increasingly larger electric shocks to test subjects on the command of
the test leader, the torture and execution of prisoners by germans
during WW2, etc).

This sort of "obeyance to authority for authority's sake" should be
engineered out of all manner of human interaction, and most notable the
air travel experience.

There is simply not enough engineering and psycology being applied to
the design of better systems of human interaction in the air travel
experience.

========================================

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/s...nes/51720054/1

Baldwin dust-up sparks debate about electronics on planes

Actor Alec Baldwin's removal from an American Airlines plane Tuesday for
playing a game on his cellphone has sparked discussion among experts and
frequent fliers at odds over being required to shut off electronic
devices during takeoff and landing.

Federal Aviation Administration rules state that no airline or pilot may
allow passengers to operate "any portable electronic device" on an
operating aircraft.

Nonetheless, airlines often allow passengers to use laptops and other
devices that don't emit radio signals when an aircraft is above 10,000
feet, says Alison Duquette, FAA spokeswoman.

The FAA's website says "there are still unknowns" about radio signals
emitted by portable electronic devices and cellphones. The signals —
particularly in large quantities and emitted for a long time — "may
unintentionally affect aircraft communications, navigation, flight
control and electronic equipment."

Frequent flier James Morrow, an information technology consultant in
Overland Park, Kan., says FAA rules prohibiting the operation of
electronic devices in flight are "a gross oversimplification" with very
little research to back them up.

"It's my impression that, because there is a remote possibility that
some handheld devices might malfunction and interfere with the plane,
we're going to insist that everything be turned off," Morrow says.

John Knott, a consultant in Orlando, says passengers should always be
allowed to use electronic devices that don't receive or transmit radio
signals. "The rule is like using a sledgehammer to swat a fly," Knott
says. "It is an overly broad rule based on an unproven issue."

Frequent flier and SHEEPLE Barry Maher, a professional speaker from
Corona, Calif., supports the restrictions. "If the FAA is worried about
it, I'm worried about it," he says. "When I'm traveling 600 miles an
hour in a metal tube, I'd rather err on the side of safety."

More studies will be needed to determine whether there is real danger in
electronic devices operating during flight. Meanwhile, airlines may let
passengers use newer-model cellphones in "airplane mode," which
"essentially disables the transmission function so they can't make
calls," the FAA says. Users can play games, check an address or look at
the calendar. FAA guidelines permit airlines to allow cellphone calls
after a plane has landed and is taxiing to the gate.
  #2  
Old December 8th, 2011, 08:09 PM posted to rec.travel.air
Bert[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 45
Default Baldwin dust-up sparks debate about electronics on planes

In Fly Guy wrote:

The airlines, particularly the recently self-declared bankrupt
American Airlines, don't need the negative publicity generated by
their over zealous employees as they hyper-enforce these ill-defined
rules over the use of electronic devices during particularly boring
phases of departure preparation.


The rules aren't "ill-defined," and asking passengers to follow them
isn't "hyper-enforcing" them.

So, what's your point?

--
St. Paul, MN
  #3  
Old December 9th, 2011, 01:25 AM posted to rec.travel.air
Fly Guy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 193
Default Baldwin dust-up sparks debate about electronics on planes

Bert wrote:

So, what's your point?


Don't be a wise ass.

You read my entire post. You know what the point was.
  #4  
Old December 9th, 2011, 01:54 AM posted to rec.travel.air
Sancho Panza[_1_]
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Posts: 552
Default Baldwin dust-up sparks debate about electronics on planes

On 12/8/2011 10:51 AM, Fly Guy wrote:
We are confronted with authoritative figures (flight attendents) who
impose unreasonable restrictions on what we believe to be reasonable
behavior (playing an electronic game on a small hand-held device while
seated on a plane).


The flight attendants do not "impose" the restrictions. The attendants
enforce them. Bozos like Alec Baldwin should take up their plaints with
real authorities like the F.A.A.

  #5  
Old December 9th, 2011, 02:39 AM posted to rec.travel.air
Fly Guy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 193
Default Baldwin dust-up sparks debate about electronics on planes

Sancho Panza wrote:

We are confronted with authoritative figures (flight attendents)
who impose unreasonable restrictions on what we believe to be
reasonable behavior


The flight attendants do not "impose" the restrictions.


Yes, they do.

Because to the best of my recollection, I don't recall anyone from the
FAA think-tank that made the rules being the same ones walking down the
ailes tell me to turn off my GPS or mp3 player.

Impose, enforce.

No real difference in the context of the interaction being considered.
  #6  
Old December 10th, 2011, 04:20 PM posted to rec.travel.air
DV 8
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Posts: 3
Default Baldwin dust-up sparks debate about electronics on planes

Baldwin is a self serving angry idiot.
I am a retired USAirway Captain and I would have kept the brakes set
(locked) until the airport Police escorted his sick soul off of the
airplane. Rules are rules. There're everwhere in our lives, like it
or not, Baldwin.

  #7  
Old December 10th, 2011, 05:00 PM posted to rec.travel.air
Fly Guy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 193
Default Baldwin dust-up sparks debate about electronics on planes

DV 8 wrote:

Baldwin is a self serving angry idiot.


But his ticket purchases pays for your sorry-ass salary. Keep that in
mind.

I am a retired USAirway Captain
Rules are rules. There're everwhere in our lives,


Rules should be based on logic, reason, and evidence.

You're just a glorified bus driver with an ego.

Stick to flying the ****ing plane and leave the paying customers alone
to their harmless recreation.

The stupid rules about the use of hand-held electronic devices does
nothing except increase tension and conflict inside the cabin between
passengers and crew WHICH DOES NOT SERVE THE INTERESTS OF THE AIRLINE
INDUSTRY.
  #8  
Old December 11th, 2011, 03:49 PM posted to rec.travel.air
DV 8
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Baldwin dust-up sparks debate about electronics on planes

The Captain signs a "release" taking full resposibility for that
airplane and everone in it and releasing the company from that flight.

When your sick ass is mid way between Philly and London and you see
lightining and the bumps are slight, but service is suspended for an
hour or so for safety reasons; do you give a **** how much the Captain
earns ? I have heard these dumb as bus driver ect shots for 40 years.
I worried about it all the way to the bank. It would please everone if
you would vanish from the Web discuss group you envious prick. I could
sit your dumb ass in a B-767 and you would not get one engine running in
your lifetime.
OH, I am a Prof of Aeronautics and teach at the worlds largest Aro
University to stay in my beloved interests during retirement.

  #9  
Old December 11th, 2011, 04:23 PM posted to rec.travel.air
Fly Guy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 193
Default Baldwin dust-up sparks debate about electronics on planes

DV 8 wrote:

The Captain signs a "release" taking full resposibility for that
airplane and everone in it and releasing the company from that
flight.


So leave the passengers alone if they want to play with their electronic
toys while seated.

****ing talk about that - not about your ego that you know how to press
the right buttons to start the engines.

And big ****ing deal about signing a release. If anything happens, you
know damn well that everyone sues everyone else anyways - signed
releases mean squat.

You'd be better off if you DID'T sign a release. Why are you signing
away your rights to NOT be responsible for the conduct of the
passengers? I wouldn't want to be responsible if I were the pilot. I
have no control over who buys the tickets to get on the plane. I
wouldn't want that control.

As for being responsible for their safety - last time I checked the
pilots are usually on the same plane as the passengers, and if the plane
crashes then the pilots are usually also roughed up (or killed). So
your own sense of self preservation is all "safety" the passengers need.

OH, I am a Prof of Aeronautics and teach at the worlds largest Aro
University to stay in my beloved interests during retirement.


I'd rather not hear about the hard-on you get when you talk about
yourself.

What did you learn, Professor, about some boob in business class playing
a game on his ipad? Tell us what you know or what you teach about how
badly an iPad ****s up an airplane that's sitting at the gate, or a
plane that's pushed back from the gate but just sitting there for 10 or
15 minutes?

Tell us about what you learned about human psycology, about the merits
of picking your fights, and if the reward of agrivating passengers into
turning off their harmless devices is worth the increase in conflict and
tension in the cabin?
  #10  
Old December 11th, 2011, 07:14 PM posted to rec.travel.air
Sancho Panza[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 552
Default Baldwin dust-up sparks debate about electronics on planes

On 12/11/2011 10:23 AM, Fly Guy wrote:

So leave the passengers alone if they want to play with their electronic
toys while seated.


Despite your shortsightedness, the F.A.A. requires the airline and crew
to enforce its rules or face penalties and other sanctions. You are
misdirecting your complaint.

 




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