CNN article on problems in Air Travel, as seen by FAA

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 10:58:52 GMT, "Neil Gould"
wrote:

Recently, NotPC posted:

Snip Yeah, get rid of all the women and blacks. And take
the stupid bigots
with them at the same time.


I did not say get rid of all the women and blacks.
[...]

The failure to see that the promotion of
minorities and women into some key safety positions within
the FAA was a mistake.

Perhaps you can explain the difference between these remarks, and how they
are not bigotted?


He has no interest in that. He is just trying to use what he calls
political correctness to cover his bigotry.

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:20:26 GMT, Marty Shapiro
wrote:

"Morgans" wrote in
:


"Allen" wrote

AVIATION FUEL
General Aviation Fuel Aviation gasoline: $0.193/gallon
Tax Jet fuel: $0.218/gallon
Commercial Fuel Tax $0.043/gallon

Wow! I didn't know that the airlines paid almost no tax on fuel. Do
the corporate jets get the same tax break, or do they pay the higher
rate of .s28 per gallon? From your post, I take that they do not.
How about the new light jet businesses that do the taxi type charters?

The airlines really have balls complaining about others not paying
their fair share, when they pay squat on fuel, and little on per seat
taxes. Typical of their powerful lobby.

It still ****es me off, though.

Only the airlines pay no tax for fuel. All part 91 GA operations,
which includes corporate jets pay.

I just looked up what airlines pay, and this is what it says:

Do U.S. airlines also pay fuel taxes?

At the federal level, airlines pay 4.4 cents for every gallon consumed
on a domestic flight. Of that amount, 4.3 cents goes to the Airport
and Airway Trust Fund while 0.1 cents supports the Leaking Underground
Storage Tank Fund. In addition, in most states airlines pay a flat
rate per gallon or an ad valorem sales tax on the purchase of fuel. In
California, for example, airlines pay a fuel tax in excess of 8.0
percent of the price of jet fuel. So if the price of jet fuel
purchased in California were to double, our tax would double as well,
generating substantial revenue for the state's treasury.

Based on this, I don't know where the poster got the other taxes from
if he is applying them to airlines. We all know where the 4.4 cents
per gallon goes. In a trust fund that the government routinely robs
to use for everything except what it was passed for.

John Kulp wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 23:08:38 -0400, "Morgans"
wrote:


"Allen" wrote

AVIATION FUEL
General Aviation Fuel Aviation gasoline: $0.193/gallon
Tax Jet fuel: $0.218/gallon
Commercial Fuel Tax $0.043/gallon

Wow! I didn't know that the airlines paid almost no tax on fuel.
Do the corporate jets get the same tax break, or do they pay the
higher rate of .s28 per gallon? From your post, I take that they do
not. How about the new light jet businesses that do the taxi type
charters?

The airlines really have balls complaining about others not paying
their fair share, when they pay squat on fuel, and little on per
seat taxes. Typical of their powerful lobby.

It still ****es me off, though.
--

Jet fuel is basically kerosene, which is used for multiple purposes.
You don't tax industries for fuel per se, but all users of the
product. I don't think kerosene has every been taxed much, unlike
gas. Everyone pays whatever the tax is on this.

Do you not even read what you respond to?

The post from Allen above shows you that the Jet Fuel Tax for GA is
$0.218/gal. The same fuel used by Airlines is $0.043/gal.

John Kulp wrote:

Perhaps. It's been a loooong time since I was piloting aircraft. But
then, what are the fees being talked about for exactly? Why, exactly,
are the majors talking about their customers paying almost all the
freight then?

They are paying for the services they are using. Most of the infrastructure
is there because of the airlines and their passengers. All those little
airplanes and even the CEO jets that are flying around can and do function
quite well without much less.

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 10:22:06 -0400, NotPC
wrote:

Neil Gould wrote:
Recently, NotPC posted:

Snip Yeah, get rid of all the women and blacks. And take
the stupid bigots
with them at the same time.


I did not say get rid of all the women and blacks.
[...]
The failure to see that the promotion of
minorities and women into some key safety positions within
the FAA was a mistake.

Perhaps you can explain the difference between these remarks, and how they
are not bigotted?

Neil



If you identify or expose a minority in a safety job who is
unqualified does that automatically make you a bigot?

Which you haven't done. And, yes, the way you expressed all this
obviously makes you a bigot.


Are we so blinded by political correctness that we can't
say "Hey, that Black Female is unqualified"? Is that now taboo?

Yeah. Saying that some person, whether black, a woman, etc. would not
be. If you had any proof for it.


Blacks and Women who are unqualified or incompetent love to
scream bigot or racism at the first hint of job action
against them. It's their first line of defense or "Shield"

That's because idiots like you give them all the ammunition they need
to do so. Goes right over your head huh?


Is that not wrong?

No. because you gave them all the ammunition they need to do so.


Would you sit in the left seat and keep your mouth shut if
the Black Female captain ****ed up or demonstrated poor
piloting skills?

No, but not because the are black or female. Any proof for this
stupid assertion btw? Got any specific cases for us? I can show you
plenty of cases of drunk pilots (see NW). Don't know whether they
were white, black, male, female or whatever. And don't care.


That is scary. Political Correctness reminds me so much of
Communism. Shut up and accept it. Or maybe a better word is
modern day tyranny.

Your mentality is what's scary. A good description is some obviously
bigoted idiot that is trying to disguise his bigotry with a bunch of
complete crap like this. And is too dumb to ever realize it
presumably.

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 09:47:54 -0500, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote:


Jet fuel is basically kerosene, which is used for multiple purposes.
You don't tax industries for fuel per se, but all users of the
product. I don't think kerosene has every been taxed much, unlike
gas. Everyone pays whatever the tax is on this.

Do you not even read what you respond to?

The post from Allen above shows you that the Jet Fuel Tax for GA is
$0.218/gal. The same fuel used by Airlines is $0.043/gal.



Yeah. That's why I said they pay whatever the tax is. I didn't
realize from his desciption that only the $0.43 tax was the only tax
airlines paid, though (it is actually $0.44). Who pays the second
tax? I thought that was airlines as well, but apparently not.

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 09:50:43 -0500, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote:

John Kulp wrote:

Perhaps. It's been a loooong time since I was piloting aircraft. But
then, what are the fees being talked about for exactly? Why, exactly,
are the majors talking about their customers paying almost all the
freight then?

They are paying for the services they are using. Most of the infrastructure
is there because of the airlines and their passengers. All those little
airplanes and even the CEO jets that are flying around can and do function
quite well without much less.



Well, the issue as I understand it is user fees, not fuel tax. The
argument is that GA doesn't pay these and all the airline passengers
do. Is that not the case?

John Kulp wrote:
On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:20:26 GMT, Marty Shapiro
wrote:

"Morgans" wrote in
:


"Allen" wrote

AVIATION FUEL
General Aviation Fuel Aviation gasoline: $0.193/gallon
Tax Jet fuel: $0.218/gallon
Commercial Fuel Tax $0.043/gallon

Wow! I didn't know that the airlines paid almost no tax on fuel.
Do the corporate jets get the same tax break, or do they pay the
higher rate of .s28 per gallon? From your post, I take that they
do not. How about the new light jet businesses that do the taxi
type charters?

The airlines really have balls complaining about others not paying
their fair share, when they pay squat on fuel, and little on per
seat taxes. Typical of their powerful lobby.

It still ****es me off, though.

Only the airlines pay no tax for fuel. All part 91 GA operations,
which includes corporate jets pay.

I just looked up what airlines pay, and this is what it says:

Do U.S. airlines also pay fuel taxes?

At the federal level, airlines pay 4.4 cents for every gallon consumed
on a domestic flight. Of that amount, 4.3 cents goes to the Airport
and Airway Trust Fund while 0.1 cents supports the Leaking Underground
Storage Tank Fund. In addition, in most states airlines pay a flat
rate per gallon or an ad valorem sales tax on the purchase of fuel. In
California, for example, airlines pay a fuel tax in excess of 8.0
percent of the price of jet fuel. So if the price of jet fuel
purchased in California were to double, our tax would double as well,
generating substantial revenue for the state's treasury.

Based on this, I don't know where the poster got the other taxes from
if he is applying them to airlines. We all know where the 4.4 cents
per gallon goes. In a trust fund that the government routinely robs
to use for everything except what it was passed for.

OK and GA pays 19.3 cents for avgas and 21.8 cents for jet fuel. Everybody
pays the .1 cent for the LUSTF. Just to be clear 4.4 21.9

John Kulp wrote:
On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 09:50:43 -0500, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote:

John Kulp wrote:

Perhaps. It's been a loooong time since I was piloting aircraft.
But then, what are the fees being talked about for exactly? Why,
exactly, are the majors talking about their customers paying almost
all the freight then?

They are paying for the services they are using. Most of the
infrastructure is there because of the airlines and their
passengers. All those little airplanes and even the CEO jets that
are flying around can and do function quite well without much less.



Well, the issue as I understand it is user fees, not fuel tax. The
argument is that GA doesn't pay these and all the airline passengers
do. Is that not the case?

The airlines pay a lesser fuel tax and per segment tax. GA doesn't pay a per
segment tax but this is made up for with a higher per gal fuel tax.

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 10:22:02 -0500, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote:


OK and GA pays 19.3 cents for avgas and 21.8 cents for jet fuel. Everybody
pays the .1 cent for the LUSTF. Just to be clear 4.4 21.9



So, then, the airlines do not pay the 21.8 cent tax?