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Second AA Flight Returns To JFK After Row Of Seats Comes Loose



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 2nd, 2012, 12:58 AM posted to rec.travel.air
Fly Guy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 193
Default Second AA Flight Returns To JFK After Row Of Seats Comes Loose

How retarded is this.

You've got a plane in the air, and someone notices that some seats are
(or have become) loose.

Passengers in those seats are moved to other (presumably empty) seats.

Everyone is now sitting in a secure seat.

So why does the plane need to make an emergency landing?

What difference does it make at this point if the plane continues on and
lands at it's scheduled destination?

American Airlines.

Something Retarded In The Air.

==================================


http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/10/...ts-come-loose/

NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) – An American Airlines flight from Boston to Miami
had to make an emergency landing in New York over the weekend.

An American Airlines spokesperson said Flight 443 departed John F.
Kennedy International Airport at around 7:15 a.m. Monday en route to
Miami. A row of three seats came loose just like on Saturday’s flight
from Boston.

Passengers were moved to other seats and the flight landed safely at
JFK. All of the passengers were put on another plane which landed in
Miami at 2:15 p.m.

On Saturday, American Airlines Flight 685 was diverted to JFK after a
row of three seats had become loose in the coach cabin of the Boeing
757, an airline spokesperson said.

Three passengers were moved to other seats on the flight before the
plane landed safely around 12:50 p.m., officials said.

No injuries were reported in either incident.

Like the aircraft from Saturday’s flight, Flight 443, also a 757, had
recently had maintenance done, officials said. American Airlines is
taking a total of eight aircraft with similar seating assemblies out of
service as a result. The airline said it is looking at the incidents as
a maintenance issue.

In a call to air traffic control, the pilot of Flight 685 can be heard
saying, “Got an unusual one for you. Passenger seats rows 12D, E and F,
uh, came loose out of the floor. Passengers are unable to, uh, sit in
that seat.”

Several hours later, passengers were placed on another flight to Miami.

The airline is conducting an internal investigation.

“Safety is our top priority,” American Airlines spokesperson Matt Miller
said in a statement. “We never have – and never will – compromise the
safety and reliability of our fleet.”

American issued another statement Monday afternoon. “An initial internal
investigation into why a row of seats became loose on an American
Airlines Boeing 757 bound from Boston to Miami on Saturday has indicated
that there could be a possible issue with a certain model of seats and
how they fit into the tracking used to secure the seats. Out of an
abundance of caution, American has decided to proactively reinspect
eight 757s today that could possibly have this same issue.

“The seats were installed by American maintenance and contract
maintenance. The issue does not seem to be tied to any one maintenance
facility or one workgroup. This afternoon, the company flew engineers,
tech crew chiefs, and inspectors from its Tulsa maintenance base to New
York to evaluate the aircraft and determine the next course of action to
correct the problem.

“We are in contact with the FAA they are aware of our internal review.”

The Federal Aviation Administration issued the following statement on
Monday:

“The Federal Aviation Administration is looking into two separate
incidents involving American Airlines Boeing 757 jetliners that were
taken out of service after passenger seat rows became loose in flight.

“On Saturday, American Flight 685, on a flight from Boston to Miami,
diverted to John F. Kennedy International Airport (JFK) and on Monday,
Flight 443, from JFK to Miami, returned to JFK without incident after
loose seats were discovered. The airline’s initial inspection of each
aircraft found other rows of seats that were not properly secured.

“Preliminary information indicates that both aircraft had recently
undergone maintenance during which the seats had been removed and
re-installed.

“Including these two airplanes, the airline has taken eight aircraft
with similar seat assemblies out of service until they can be
inspected.”

The loose seat mishap is the latest blunder for American Airlines.

The carrier is facing heightened scrutiny by the FAA in the wake of its
bankruptcy filing last year, and a string of maintenance and employee
problems — all of which have led to significant delays and
cancellations.

Many travelers are taking a second look when it comes to choosing
American.

“Obviously, American Airlines is not being transparent with
information,” said concerned flier Patrick Rodgers. “If there are
issues, they owe it to the American public.”
  #2  
Old October 2nd, 2012, 01:59 AM posted to rec.travel.air
bill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 252
Default Second AA Flight Returns To JFK After Row Of Seats Comes Loose

On Mon, 01 Oct 2012 19:58:40 -0400, Fly Guy wrote:

How retarded is this.

You've got a plane in the air, and someone notices that some seats are
(or have become) loose.

Passengers in those seats are moved to other (presumably empty) seats.

Everyone is now sitting in a secure seat.

So why does the plane need to make an emergency landing?

What difference does it make at this point if the plane continues on and
lands at it's scheduled destination?


That's because the problem may be progressive and you could end up
with seats just floating about the place and not bolted down.

I imagine the aircraft puts down at the nearest airport that can take
it.

Obviously that would be exceptional, but there's nobody on the
aircraft who will say that it's safe to continue, so it lands as soon
as possible.
  #3  
Old October 2nd, 2012, 10:11 AM posted to rec.travel.air
Binyamin Dissen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 409
Default Second AA Flight Returns To JFK After Row Of Seats Comes Loose

On Mon, 01 Oct 2012 19:58:40 -0400 Fly Guy wrote:

:How retarded is this.

:You've got a plane in the air, and someone notices that some seats are
:(or have become) loose.

:Passengers in those seats are moved to other (presumably empty) seats.

:Everyone is now sitting in a secure seat.

Assuming facts not in evidence.

:So why does the plane need to make an emergency landing?

Why did these seats get loose? If these seats got loose, how likely is it a
systematic flaw and other seats will be following?

For example, perhaps the crew maintaining the seats did it improperly? Perhaps
they did other rows as well.

:What difference does it make at this point if the plane continues on and
:lands at it's scheduled destination?

Because while certain symptoms are visible, one does not know the entire
problem. Best to be safe.

--
Binyamin Dissen
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.

I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems,
especially those from irresponsible companies.
  #4  
Old October 2nd, 2012, 12:11 PM posted to rec.travel.air
Fly Guy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 193
Default Second AA Flight Returns To JFK After Row Of Seats Comes Loose

Binyamin Dissen wrote:

: Everyone is now sitting in a secure seat.

Assuming facts not in evidence.

: So why does the plane need to make an emergency landing?

Why did these seats get loose? If these seats got loose, how likely
is it a systematic flaw and other seats will be following?


Simple reasoning.

Statistical probability.

You have a plane with probably at least 70 seating units (each unit
consisting of a row of 3 seats).

If there was a systematic flaw, the likelyhood that NONE OF THEM were
detected as being loose DURING BOARDING or taxi for take-off is pretty
much zero.

Secondly, in the air, the crew would have (or should have) checked all
remaining seats for this condition, in an attempt to relocate ALL
passengers sitting in unsafe seats. We can logically presume this
happened.

It can also be assumed that the seats did not become loose at any point
- they were loose (not properly fastened to the floor) to begin with.
Any other condition (such as they were secure and became insecure) would
require the invention of self-unscrewing or self-detaching fasteners.
In other words, it would have been irrational to assume that seats
initially found to be secure would have at some point in the flight
become insecure.

Also, the media story was sufficiently detailed and did not say that
some passengers were forced to sit or remain seated in loose seats.

Hence there would have been no rational reason NOT to continue the 1.5
or 2 hours remaining to fly to the original destination.
  #5  
Old October 2nd, 2012, 04:09 PM posted to rec.travel.air
bill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 252
Default Second AA Flight Returns To JFK After Row Of Seats Comes Loose

On Tue, 02 Oct 2012 07:11:28 -0400, Fly Guy wrote:

Binyamin Dissen wrote:

: Everyone is now sitting in a secure seat.

Assuming facts not in evidence.

: So why does the plane need to make an emergency landing?

Why did these seats get loose? If these seats got loose, how likely
is it a systematic flaw and other seats will be following?


Simple reasoning.

Statistical probability.

You have a plane with probably at least 70 seating units (each unit
consisting of a row of 3 seats).

If there was a systematic flaw, the likelyhood that NONE OF THEM were
detected as being loose DURING BOARDING or taxi for take-off is pretty
much zero.

Secondly, in the air, the crew would have (or should have) checked all
remaining seats for this condition, in an attempt to relocate ALL
passengers sitting in unsafe seats. We can logically presume this
happened.

It can also be assumed that the seats did not become loose at any point
- they were loose (not properly fastened to the floor) to begin with.
Any other condition (such as they were secure and became insecure) would
require the invention of self-unscrewing or self-detaching fasteners.
In other words, it would have been irrational to assume that seats
initially found to be secure would have at some point in the flight
become insecure.

Also, the media story was sufficiently detailed and did not say that
some passengers were forced to sit or remain seated in loose seats.

Hence there would have been no rational reason NOT to continue the 1.5
or 2 hours remaining to fly to the original destination.


You'll be making presumptions like those above and assuming technical
skills in the crew that they don't have as the aircraft ploughs into
the ground.

Look, it's a large complicated machine full of small fragile people
and flying at a Hell of a speed and one Hell of a height.

When it goes wrong it needs looking at RIGHT NOW, and not after some
mouthy punk with a big gob and a chip on his shoulder has arrived at
his destination, picked up his luggage and started out for his hotel.
  #6  
Old November 1st, 2012, 02:30 AM posted to rec.travel.air
Gunter Herrmann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 23
Default Second AA Flight Returns To JFK After Row Of Seats Comes Loose

Hi!

Fly Guy wrote:
It can also be assumed that the seats did not become loose at any point
- they were loose (not properly fastened to the floor) to begin with.


No, you can install a screw incorrectly by applying more torque to it.
This one may break.
Then the other ones might be overloaded.

Gunter in Orlando, Fla
(who has a degree in Mechanical Engineering)
  #7  
Old November 1st, 2012, 02:55 PM posted to rec.travel.air
Fly Guy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 193
Default Second AA Flight Returns To JFK After Row Of Seats Comes Loose

Gunter Herrmann wrote:

It can also be assumed that the seats did not become loose at any
point - they were loose (not properly fastened to the floor) to
begin with.


No, you can install a screw incorrectly by applying more torque
to it. This one may break.
Then the other ones might be overloaded.


These seats are not held down by screws.

The problem has been blamed on accumulation of soft-drink residue in the
"seat-lock plunger" mechanism.

http://blog.apex.aero/cms/wp-content...at-plunger.jpg

See this:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/05/travel...lem/index.html

=============
Something called the seat lock plunger mechanism can "get gunked up over
time with people spilling sodas, popcorn, coffee or whatever and that
can affect that locking mechanism on the ground that locks the seat to
the floor," airline spokeswoman Mary Frances Fagan said Friday.

11 witty and sage airline 'gunk' retorts

Apparently, worn locking pins can get stuck when food and beverages
spill onto them, allowing seat rows to come unhinged, she said.

American earlier said saddle-shaped clamps installed to hold the seats
down were put in backwards.

While the clamps may have played a role, the soda and snack gunk now
seems to be among the culprits, Fagan said.

And while that explains what happened to the three American flights that
experienced loose seats, it doesn't explain why the problem has affected
only American flights in recent days, or why it's happened so many times
in such a short period.

Besides presumably cleaning out the gunk, Fagan says American mechanics
are "taking extra steps to ensure that the seats do not dislodge from
the track."

That includes installing industrial-strength metal ties as a backup,
airline spokeswoman Courtney Wallace said.
==============

I would say that it doesn't seem possible that this seat-lock mechanism
can be partially engaged. Seems that it has only 2 states - locked and
unlocked.

And if locked, it doesn't seem possibly to unlock without a special
tool.
  #8  
Old November 2nd, 2012, 02:17 AM posted to rec.travel.air
Brian[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,152
Default Second AA Flight Returns To JFK After Row Of Seats Comes Loose

On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 09:55:56 -0400, Fly Guy wrote:


I would say that it doesn't seem possible that this seat-lock mechanism
can be partially engaged. Seems that it has only 2 states - locked and
unlocked.

And if locked, it doesn't seem possibly to unlock without a special
tool.


I've wondered why this hasn't been a problem on all of the other
airlines.
 




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